Christianity and Beer

[Ortho_Cat]

Didn't Jesus turn water into wine. The bible is clear being drunk is a sin. If you feel like drinking a beer here or there is a sin the best advice don't drink it's probably something you can't control.

What was the letter Paul wrote to corinthian regarding freedoms?

Yes, I think the fact that Jesus turned water into wine clearly shows the he did not consider drinking (wine) in of itself to be a sin. I also think that scripture clearly attests to that as well, for example the Psalms reference I made earlier.

edit: just wanted to add that Jesus instituted the drinking of wine at the Lord's Supper also.

 

[athenken]

Those who are quoting the verse in Romans are completely missing the point of it. It is not saying you should not drink or eat meat period. It is saying that you should not do so in front of those who may struggle with these things. For example, I would not drink beer in the presense of a recovering alcoholic, as it may "cause them to stumble", but I see no problem with enjoying a beer or two at home after work as long as I am not being controlled by it and doing it to get drunk.

 

[homeofmew]

Occasional Drinking is fine, socially.
But Beer still tastes horrible.

 

[athenken]

Occasional Drinking is fine, socially.
But Beer still tastes horrible.

For many people it is an acquired taste. Though, in many cases people who think beer doesn't taste good have not actually had good beer.

Not that I want to turn this into a beersnob thread, but anything that is considered mainstream US domestic beer (MGD, Coors, Bud, etc...) I would not consider "good beer".

 

[blong4133]

For many people it is an acquired taste. Though, in many cases people who think beer doesn't taste good have not actually had good beer.

Not that I want to turn this into a beersnob thread, but anything that is considered mainstream US domestic beer (MGD, Coors, Bud, etc...) I would not consider "good beer".

I agree.

I also do not want to turn this into a beersnob thread either, but something else I've considered is the societal significance alcohol has here in America. Beer is viewed, largely, as something people drink at parties and to get drunk off of. I do not drink beer for that purpose. And when I do have one, it's usually a heavy, dark beer that has a lot of flavor, with the exception of Yuengling. For those who have drank those heavy beers, it is pretty hard to drink "too much" because after one bottle you feel like you've eaten a horse.

But regardless, I agree with the notion that "moderation" is the standard. If I was drinking to get drunk, that's a completely different story. But having a beer or two when I'm grilling with my family, I personally don't see anything wrong with. My family has no history of alcohol or drug abuse so It's not even something I think about. I drink as my family does. I never saw anyone in my family have any sort of alcoholic beverage until I was close to 21. I will never drink in front of my children, but as I said, simply because I think that nothing goes better with a big old steak then a dark beer, and I personally don't think I'm committing a sin for simply drinking one or two beers with my meal.

But I respect others view on this, and I will leave the rest of the discussion to the rest of you, in that I've made my view of it relatively clear...lol

 

[suzybeezy]

I think having a drink now and then is fine. Moderation is always key. I believe it can become a problem when a) you drink to become drunk or b) you drink for stress relief. Becoming drunken is obviously a sin but for stress relief, I believe this is when you are choosing a drink over choosing to lean on the Lord and that's problematic. Nothing should come between you and God and when it does, even if its something one thinks is small and innocent, it can quickly become a wedge or stumbling block in your faith.

 

[PaladinValer]

First off, if you think what is being taught at your father's church is "traditional," then with the greatest of respect, you don't understand "traditional".

The consumption of alcohol is not a sin in and of itself. Becoming drunk is, but enjoying beer in moderation without any sort of abuse is fine. Jesus Himself turned water to wine and instituted wine to be what to use when Holy Communion is celebrated.

I suggest leaving pietists to enjoy whatever nonsense theology they want to believe in and sticking to orthodoxy. So long as you drink in moderation, don't abuse alcohol, and don't try to do something illegal, then enjoy a brew.

 

[createdtoworship]

Is it okay for Christians to drink in public?
Norman Geisler mentions this in His book, When Critics ask...

1 TIMOTHY 5:23—Was Paul recommending wine-drinking for Christians?-N GEISLER

PROBLEM: The Bible repeatedly warns against abuse of strong drink and drunkenness (Prov. 20:1; 31:4–5; Isa. 24:9; 1 Cor. 6:9–10; Eph. 5:18). However, here Paul tells Timothy to “no longer drink only water, but use a little wine for your stomach’s sake and your frequent infirmities.” Doesn’t this commend wine drinking?
SOLUTION: Once the entire context is understood, there is no basis here for Christians to engage in the social drinking of wine (or other alcoholic beverages). First, Paul says “a little,” not a lot. Paul elsewhere urges Christian leaders to be temperate (1 Tim. 3:3, 8).
Second, it was “for his frequent infirmities” not for pleasure. In other words, it was recommended for medicinal purposes, not for social purposes.
Third, the Bible speaks often of the evil of wine drinking. It pronounces woes on those who drink in excess (Isa. 5:11; Amos 6:6; Micah 2:11). All are warned that too much alcohol will lead to disgrace and judgment (Amos 6:6–7).... See More
Finally, the wine that was used in the biblical times was mixed with three parts water to one part wine, thus diluting it to a relatively harmless amount of alcohol. When this was taken in this minimal amount in conjunction with a meal, there was little chance in a non-alcoholic society for it to be personally or socially harmful. The same is not true today, since the wine, beer, and whiskey being imbibed is by biblical standards “strong drink.” And this is even more problematic in an alcoholic culture where one out of ten persons who begins to drink becomes a problem drinker. In this context it is better to follow the advice of Paul elsewhere when he said, “it is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak” (Rom. 14:21).

Geisler, Norman L. ; Howe, Thomas A.: When Critics Ask : A Popular Handbook on Bible Difficulties. Wheaton, Ill. : Victor Books, 1992, S. 500

 

[Johnnz]

I don't agree with Mr Geisler.Paul wrote:
1 Cor 11:20-22 When you come together, it is not the Lord's Supper you eat, for as you eat, each of you goes ahead without waiting for anybody else. One remains hungry, another gets drunk. Don't you have homes to eat and drink in? NIV

Clearly is was not highly diluted wine being drunk at the communal meals if some became drunk. And Paul is also suggesting that it was OK to drink alcoholic beverages at home.

John
NZ

 

[Hospes]

Here's what I observe: asking another man to have a beer with you is about the only way to let another man know you'd be interested in getting to know him better and yet not make him wonder if you are gay. That and having a cigar. Just saying...

 

[ChrisHolland619]

So long as you control it and not allow it to control you, all should be just fine.

That is the worst advice you could *ever* give someone. Literally, the worst.

Especially a Christian. You honestly should be ashamed of yourself.

"Yeah bro, it's ok, just smoke a little crack, you won't get addicted." LOL?

 

[Radagast]

...Finally, the wine that was used in the biblical times was mixed with three parts water to one part wine, thus diluting it to a relatively harmless amount of alcohol.

Since wine is about 12% alcohol, 3:1 diluted wine is 3% alcohol... basically the same as light beer.

 

[Radagast]

Yet, what scripture is saying is that any drinking, whether it is every day or once a year is still giving Jesus a bad reputation and putting a stumbling block before your brothers in Christ. The frequency isn't the issue.

Romans 14:21 does not say that at all:

"It is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble." (ESV)

"It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak." (NKJV)

"It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall." (NIV)

It is saying don't eat/drink/do things when they are a stumbling block; it is not saying wine is always wrong or that steaks are always wrong.

 

[Radagast]

... For example, I would not drink beer in the presense of a recovering alcoholic, as it may "cause them to stumble", but I see no problem with enjoying a beer or two at home after work as long as I am not being controlled by it and doing it to get drunk.

Amen. In the same way I wouldn't drink wine in front of a strict teetotaller either; and I wouldn't drink wine if I had an alcohol problem. But the Bible verses that have been quoted make it clear that wine in moderation is fine.

 

[SamsoniteBaggage]

As you well know Jesus said if you drink a few beers you will go to hell forever and ever where your face will be burned worse then what happens to pizza in an oven.

So you have a choice.

Jesus, who wishes to burn you in hell forever for a few beers according to the Pope... or Satan who says, "Go ahead and drink a few beers, the Pope is lying"?

Tricky question, I know. I feel for you in your tough situation.

The Pope is very compelling.... ROFL...

 

[thesunisout]

Romans 14:21 does not say that at all:

"It is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble." (ESV)

"It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak." (NKJV)

"It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall." (NIV)

It is saying don't eat/drink/do things when they are a stumbling block; it is not saying wine is always wrong or that steaks are always wrong.

A Christian who drinks is a stumbling block to everyone around them..to their family, to their friends, to co-workers, to the people they buy it from at the store. Everyone who is on here advocating drinking is a stumbling block to everyone on this forum, and any non-christians from outside, who read this thread. Is your pleasure worth even one person falling into sin? The dichotomy here is self-interest versus sanctification.

1 Corinthians 10:23

All things are lawful,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful,” but not all things build up.

Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others

 

[Radagast]

... Everyone who is on here advocating drinking is a stumbling block to everyone on this forum, and any non-christians from outside, who read this thread. Is your pleasure worth even one person falling into sin? ...

Personally, I think it is the "all drinking is evil" attitude that provides the biggest stumbling block.

"From your lofty abode you water the mountains;
the earth is satisfied with the fruit of your work.
You cause the grass to grow for the livestock
and plants for man to cultivate,
that he may bring forth food from the earth
and wine to gladden the heart of man,
oil to make his face shine
and bread to strengthen man's heart." -- Psalm 104

Praise God for wine and oil and freshly-baked bread!

 

[thesunisout]

Personally, I think it is the "all drinking is evil" attitude that provides the biggest stumbling block.

"From your lofty abode you water the mountains;
the earth is satisfied with the fruit of your work.
You cause the grass to grow for the livestock
and plants for man to cultivate,
that he may bring forth food from the earth
and wine to gladden the heart of man,
oil to make his face shine
and bread to strengthen man's heart." -- Psalm 104

Praise God for wine and oil and freshly-baked bread!

It isn't that all drinking is innately evil, it is that we serve a Holy God who calls us to a higher standard, and we are His representives on Earth. Everything we do is scrutinized by unbelievers, and what we do influences what they believe about Jesus. We also set an example for our brothers and sisters in Christ, who have varying levels of knowledge and self-control. It doesn't matter if it's a little or a lot, it will impact those around us. You are impacting the thoughts and opinions of everyone reading this thread, and some may very well come away from this and conclude drinking is just fine, that they can handle it, and then fall into sin.

You don't think it's a big deal, but that is where the enemy does his best work. With little things that people think they have under control, until one day, they don't. This requires discernment, and unfortunately that is in short supply in the church these days.

The word for wine there is yayin, which could be alcoholic or non-alcoholic, by the way.

 

[Johnnz]

Romans 14:21 does not say that at all:

"It is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble." (ESV)

"It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak." (NKJV)

"It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother to fall." (NIV)

It is saying don't eat/drink/do things when they are a stumbling block; it is not saying wine is always wrong or that steaks are always wrong.

These verse are all too often thrown around with gay abandon.

Importantly Paul is addressing conduct appropriate to the gathered community in their corporate life. He is not addressing personal morality in other spheres.

The issues at stake are deeply held beliefs from previous religious traditions, Jewish and Roman - kosher food, sabbath keeping, and elsewhere in the NT circumcision. It is unfounded to apply such verses to some issue that some Christian somewhere doing something might cause some offense to someone else who might just happen to observe them doing that and become shipwrecked in their faith.

There is also an issue of status, the well off (the powerful) attempting to exercise their customary role of control over their dependents (the weak). Paul would have one of that.

To suggest someone who enjoys alcohol and acts responsibly should be bound by those scriptures and never drink is going well beyond what Paul wrote. There were known key issues that threatened to divide the community. Paul called each member to account, the 'strong' and the 'weak'.

John
NZ

 

[thesunisout]

These verse are all too often thrown around with gay abandon.

Importantly Paul is addressing conduct appropriate to the gathered community in their corporate life. He is not addressing personal morality in other spheres.

The issues at stake are deeply held beliefs from previous religious traditions, Jewish and Roman - kosher food, sabbath keeping, and elsewhere in the NT circumcision. It is unfounded to apply such verses to some issue that some Christian somewhere doing something might cause some offense to someone else who might just happen to observe them doing that and become shipwrecked in their faith.

There is also an issue of status, the well off (the powerful) attempting to exercise their customary role of control over their dependents (the weak). Paul would have one of that.

To suggest someone who enjoys alcohol and acts responsibly should be bound by those scriptures and never drink is going well beyond what Paul wrote. There were known key issues that threatened to divide the community. Paul called each member to account, the 'strong' and the 'weak'.

John
NZ

You are trying to pull the oldest trick in the book that people use to disregard something in the epistles. For instance, when people want to disregard something in Hebrews they will say that Paul was only speaking to the jews. That it is all some socio-political context and not the actual truth we should live by. Yet that isn't going to work here because it is very clear that who Paul is speaking to is Christians:

It is good not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble

When Paul says "your brother" he is giving instructions to Christians. We are Christians and there is no limitation there in the verse as to what sphere it applies to. It applies to any sphere it can apply to. The meaning is very plain, and is further backed up by at least three other scriptures:

1 Corinthians 10:23

All things are lawful,” but not all things are helpful. “All things are lawful,” but not all things build up.

Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others

Romans 15:1

We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves

1 Corinthians 8:9

Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak

Over and over Paul is telling us to deny ourselves when something we are doing may cause someone else to stumble. Drinking is definitely on that list of something that causes people to stumble. Scripture just couldn't be any more clear about this, yet people will still try to justify themselves and resist the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit gave us these teachings for a reason, and it wasn't so we could take it lightly and pass it off as irrelevent to excuse us to do whatever we want. We were bought with a price and do not belong to ourselves any longer. God said be holy as I am holy. That's why Paul said this:

2 Corinthians 7:1 Since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God