Christian vs Islam, are these real Christians? or luke warm Christians

[Clintos]

And what would happen if the so called luke warm Christians let the Muslims during the crusades kill all the Christians?

I am conflicted on what to do regarding fighting Islam. At what point do we have the right to defend ourselves?

Thanks for any responses, this is a biggy for me and I tried to talk to God involving this but got no response, yet.

 

[Greg J.]

Speaking to his followers, Jesus said:

“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” (John 13:34-35, 1984 NIV)

Writing to Timothy, Paul wrote:

And the Lord’s servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will. (2 Timothy 2:24-26, 1984 NIV)

You cannot say anything on your own that will change someone. It is through the Truth that God will work in their hearts. Deliver the Truth lovingly with sacrificial living to back it up. The latter is something that Satan cannot comprehend/overcome (John 1:4-5), and is in fact destroyed through.

For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love. (Galatians 5:6, 1984 NIV)

(Edited)

 

[High Fidelity]

Speaking to his followers, Jesus said:

“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” (John 13:34-35, 1984 NIV)

Writing to Timothy, Paul wrote:

And the Lord’s servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will. (2 Timothy 2:24-26, 1984 NIV)

You cannot say anything on your own that will change someone. It is through the Truth that God will work in their hearts. Deliver the Truth lovingly with sacrificial living to back it up.

Right. There are ways to go about it. That video is not it.

 

[geiroffenberg]

And what would happen if the so called luke warm Christians let the Muslims during the crusades kill all the Christians?

I am conflicted on what to do regarding fighting Islam. At what point do we have the right to defend ourselves?

Thanks for any responses, this is a biggy for me and I tried to talk to God involving this but got no response, yet.

Listen, we should defend our lives and families and even countries life from anyone that threathens it with death and destruction. But when it comes to fighting an ideology that allows for killing innocents and raping woman as slaves etc, its a spiritual battle first of all. Jesus didnt literally fight the pharasees with weapons (they was of the spirit that killed him) but he did at one point tell his discoples to keep swords etc to protect themselves.

Anyone who dont protect their own children from evildoers is a evil person, fooled my misunderstood false theology about peace and tolerance.

 

[4x4toy]

 

[Outtaluck]

I, too, wrestle with this. What I've come to believe at this point is throughout Scripture, we are called to spread the Word with loving kindness, as Christ has drew us to Him with the same. That said, there is a problem with what to do if someone means us harm. First, I believe that we approach it with loving kindness ad we have been shown. Secondly, if they are so intent to hurt us, we have no choice but to eliminate the force that intends us harm.

 

[Der Alte]

....In the early 90s I was associate pastor of a church in Orange Co. CA. Before I served there, the church had an Arab Christian ministry and among some other publications had a case of Arabic Bibles in a closet.
.....A husband/wife medical missionary team in one of the most militant Muslim countries visited our church. He was a pharmacist and she was a nurse.
....At one point I mentioned the Bibles and asked if they could use them. They were ecstatic. He told me that they were unable to keep enough copies of the Bible on hand. At the risk of their lives Muslims would sneak up to the hospital at night and ask for "The Book," which is what the Bible is called in the Quran. They had to smuggle the Bibles and other Christian literature into the hospital hidden in bags of rice, etc.
....Although they did so at the risk of death Muslims would become Christians. To baptize them the missionaries constructed a makeshift baptismal on the roof and after posting guards baptized the converts. Or they would go out into the desert to a river or oasis and again posting guards baptize there.

 

[tturt]

might want to check out this -
video at http://sidroth.org/television/tv-archives/brigitte-gabriel/

transcript at http://ofm6z46z825qpxk83fa00q1a.wpe.../uploads/2016/06/IS464Transcript_Brigitte.pdf

 

[Clintos]

I guess as Christians we are suppose to operate under the new law/covenant?

 

[Clintos]

might want to check out this -
video at http://sidroth.org/television/tv-archives/brigitte-gabriel/

transcript at http://ofm6z46z825qpxk83fa00q1a.wpe.../uploads/2016/06/IS464Transcript_Brigitte.pdf

She makes a lot of sense. and her view is my view, but now I am not so sure the more I read about Christianity.

Would this be a situation where I would use my own discretion? or is there a clear side I should be on which is to let God fight this? or does God sometimes work through soldiers? because I see some videos where Christians are training there kids to be vigilant. or some would say radical

 

[Der Alte]

Here is something written by a pastor in 1946.
Als die Nazis die Kommunisten holten,
habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Kommunist.
Als sie die Sozialdemokraten einsperrten,
habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Sozialdemokrat.
Als sie die Gewerkschafter holten,
habe ich nicht protestiert;
ich war ja kein Gewerkschafter.
Als sie die Juden holten,
habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Jude.
Als sie mich holten,
gab es keinen mehr,
der protestieren konnte.

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for the Jews.
I remained silent; I wasn't a Jew.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

 

[Clintos]

You got a good point Der Alter.

I took a lot of thought about it and decided that I am going to side with what the Jews beliefs are regarding the issue. Is that unchristian of me? is it biblical?

I find it to be best to accept Muslims and to not start trouble with them. but at the same time I feel conflicted on whether I should dislike them and want to war with them. Or turn the other cheek, and wait for myself to go to heaven if attacked and killed?

 

[crossnote]

A government has the right and duty to physically protect it's citizens.
The Church has the right and duty to proclaim the Gospel, not go to battle e.g. Crusades.

When it comes to fighting another nation or group the Christian is to do that as an employee of the government not vigilante style.

If a Christian conscientiously objects to fighting, that is between him and God and the nation should not force him but should put him to alternative service.

 

[Clintos]

A government has the right and duty to physically protect it's citizens.
The Church has the right and duty to proclaim the Gospel, not go to battle e.g. Crusades.

When it comes to fighting another nation or group the Christian is to do that as an employee of the government not vigilante style.

If a Christian conscientiously objects to fighting, that is between him and God and the nation should not force him but should put him to alternative service.

This answers my question, thanks.

Was the Crusades something the government at the time said for it's citizens to do?

I agree with you about a Christian not being forced to fight by the government. He can always be a medic or something, too.

 

[crossnote]

This answers my question, thanks.

Was the Crusades something the government at the time said for it's citizens to do?

I agree with you about a Christian not being forced to fight by the government. He can always be a medic or something, too.

Clintos, I'm not an expert in history, I believe the Crusades was the product of the marriage of Church and State ...a marriage NOT 'made in heaven'.