Christian Vs. Buddhism

[ps139]

All gods do, right in your mind. They never die, so long as your imagination flourishes.

Someone had to create the brain in order for his imagination to flourish.

 

[Tariki]

Thank you Tariki.
It's right, Nirvana was not well Know. The Occults Mvt have not well done the teaching.
It's indeed the end of the Illusion, not the PERSONNALITY.
have an extract of dialogues between GOTAMA ( Buddha) and Vacchagotta , who indeed explain that Buddhism is NOT NIHILISM.

Bokar Rimpoché also insist on that matter. Buddhism have nothing to do with Repulsion.

Milarépa put himself against all duality. BE or not to Be is incorrect questions. We are point.

But a Christian admit that the fact TO BE depent on GOD will


It's GOD who maintain my existence.Without GOD, i'm Nothing.

Just another small point.....Buddhism is not "eternalism" either. It is the middle way that gives the dharma its unique flavour.......Samsara = nirvana. And therefore no betrayal of this world for an imaginary "beyond"

"And the end of all our exploring will be to return to the place where we started and know it for the first time."

 

[vajradhara]

I'd just like to say that there really is no comparison between buddhism and christianity. Buddhism is a philosophy, not a religion. Muslims pratice a reigion. Christians follow God through His son Jesus Christ. These are 3 very different playing feilds.

Namaste,

please define religion and then apply your definition to all the ones that you've mentioned.

last i checked... there still wasn't a solid concensus on what, exactly, "religion" is.

to dismiss something that doesn't meet an arbitrary definition is perfectly acceptable, though it seems as if one could make a mistake therein.

 

[vajradhara]

Mahayana Buddhism worships gods like Avalokitesvara, the Bodhisattva of Compassion and Tara, Compassionate Mother-Goddess. Because of it's focus on meditation, self-improvement and self-divinity, Buddhism is a very attractive religion to a lot of people. That does not make it a wholesome religion, it is still pagan. Put your faith in Christ, and pray to see the error of your ways. Amen.

Namaste gorgonqueen,

Avalokiteshavara is not a god though some may offer veneration to him or her, depending on tradition.

moreover, Tara seems to be more inclined towards the Vajrayana rather than the Mahayana.. however, Kuan-Yin does tend to be more seen in the Mahayana rather than the Vajrayana, though i rather think that is a product of the Chinese culture more than anything else.

futhermore, the Mahayana represents the Second Turning of the Wheel of Dharma.. if one has not spent time understanding the First Turning of the Wheel (which corresponds with the Hinyana) it would be a mistake to begin in the Mahayana, in my opinion.

"self-divinity" and "self-improvement" seem like an odd words to apply to a Buddhist position, though.... as there is no "self" the Anataman Doctrine for divinity or improvement to apply to.

 

[Dyrwen]

Someone had to create the brain in order for his imagination to flourish.

And someone had to create your god for it to create anything.

Isn't circular reasoning fun?

 

[Tang_kuanu]

In buddhism rebirth occur is decided by the guardian of heaven and the guardian of hell probaly buddha too but they determine what that soul gonna be in the next life animal, human ect. alien?

 

[Dyrwen]

Karma dictates what it becomes next. There is no higher power, more powerful being controlling it all.

There are people in Nirvana, those that aren't, are still reliving life till they get it right.

 

[Thierry_rhodan]

Hmm; Don't think that Nirvana is Samsara.
Think that Nirvana is going " out" of the wheel of Samsara.
Samsara is the ILLUSION .
going back to the starting point is the deepest illusion.

What about reincarnation or better transmigration.
It's not clear in Buddhism.
In Hindouism is moore clear.
Seems that Buddhism teach and don't teach reincarnation.

But a Christian it's far moore simple.The Redemption of jesus stop all processus on Transmigration or self stuff.

" buddhism is not eternalism"

You don't believe in Eternal life, why so much pratice ??
If you don't believe in Eternal Life.

christianity speak about LOVE ,and Eternity.

 

[vajradhara]

Namaste Thierry,

actually samsara is nirvana and nirvana is samsara. this is fully expounded in the prajnaparamita sutras and discourses. in Buddhism, it cannot be transmigration as that implies that there is a "self" that migrates from existence to existence.

Tang,

rebirth in Buddhism is a natural process, like erosion or gravity, that does not require a judgement or something like that to happen prior to rebirth. Karma is the engine for this process, though it should be clearly noted that karma can be changed, for good or ill, it is not inescapable.. if it were, what point would there be in talking about liberation, peace and joy?

 

[Thierry_rhodan]

Don't understand, so you don't believe in Heaven ?
If we must transmigrate , know you don't like the terms "reincarnations";
and if you don't believe in the "self"....don't understand buddhism !!

Something transmigrate but without " CONSCIENCE" !!!( Self-knowing)...Urgh !

Why the Life, why the hope....don't tell me it's illusion .

 

[Tariki]

Hmm; Don't think that Nirvana is Samsara.
Think that Nirvana is going " out" of the wheel of Samsara.
Samsara is the ILLUSION .
going back to the starting point is the deepest illusion.

What about reincarnation or better transmigration.
It's not clear in Buddhism.
In Hindouism is moore clear.
Seems that Buddhism teach and don't teach reincarnation.

But a Christian it's far moore simple.The Redemption of jesus stop all processus on Transmigration or self stuff.

" buddhism is not eternalism"

You don't believe in Eternal life, why so much pratice ??
If you don't believe in Eternal Life.

christianity speak about LOVE ,and Eternity.

Thierry,

Personnally I find Buddhism far more simple, and childlike!...........stripped of "belief" , grasping and desire, the mind can truly begin to "see"..........."see" reality-as-is, not as we are conditioned to see it or as we would want it to be to satisfy the manipulative activity or wishful thinking of a "self", projecting it's desires upon the heavens.

Nihilism and eternalism are the twin poles....the "belief" in existence or non-existence, that "we" are either "annihilated" at death or "continue eternally"..............."Avoiding these two extremes, the Blessed One shows the teaching of the middle" (Samyutta Nikaya 12:15)

From the "Awakening of the West" by Stephen Batchelor.....".....ulitimately it is impossible to put one's finger on anything, physical or metaphysical, that tells you what a person is.......This inability to find any essence or substance drops one into a depth that continues infinitely into the heart of things, never halting at something but also never coming to a stop at nothing. Upon awakening to this middle way between the extreme of reification, on the one hand, and nihilism, on the other, one is finally freed from suffering/dukkha"

It is in the "knowing it for the first time" that "distinguishes" samsara from nirvana.............if we must "distinguish"! (Pure Land would speak more of total "acceptance" rather than "knowing".......as Eckhart once said......"They can truly enjoy the feast who would just as willingly fast"............which makes me remember to add that I am not there yet! I just love the feast............ )

"Master Shaku Soen liked to take an evening stroll through a nearby village. One day he heard loud lamentations from a house and, on entering quietly, realized that the householder had died and the family and neighbours were crying. He sat down and cried with them. An old man noticed him and remarked, rather shaken on seeing the famous master crying with them: 'I would have thought that you at least were beyond such things.' 'But it is this which puts me beyond it,' replied the master between his tears."

Any why practice? Good question!

Namu-amida-butsu!



P.S. Personally, I have very little interest in "rebirth" or whatever - call it what you will.........or in "heaven and hell"........call them what you will. All seem to be a part of the metaphysics of hope and fear...........as Stephen Batchelor says..........we need to "shift concern away from a future life and back to the present.......to an ethics of empathy, rather than a metaphysics of hope and fear."

 

[vajradhara]

Don't understand, so you don't believe in Heaven ?
If we must transmigrate , know you don't like the terms "reincarnations";
and if you don't believe in the "self"....don't understand buddhism !!

Something transmigrate but without " CONSCIENCE" !!!( Self-knowing)...Urgh !

Why the Life, why the hope....don't tell me it's illusion .

Namaste Thierry,

was this addressed to me?

i shall respond as if it were....

correct... i do not believe in a chrisitan or muslim or hindu heaven of any type.


transmigrate is not a term that we would use as that implies a self that moves. Buddhism specifically refutes this position. there is no "self" that transmigrates from body to body.


this site may help you get a basic grasp of Buddhism:

www.buddhanet.net


why the life? i'm not sure what you are asking here... are you asking why i am here or why life exists or what?


why the hope? again, i'm unclear what you are asking. i don't have "hope" or some other vague emotional feeling about my practice, if that's what you are asking.

 

[Thierry_rhodan]

Ok, so first ,you admit that Buddhism is not Hindouism.
See for exemple the Bhagavad Gîta , try to made a correct translation because i'm french native ( But this Forum is so great I love him)

Song 2 : 13-14 for exemple, 18 " this body have an end , but the Spirit who incarnate was Eternal , indestrucible, incommensurable ( limitless)".

It's a first point.
A second one, Buddhism still teach about transmigration, see for exemple the Karmapa line.
urgyen Trinley Dorje was the 17 th Karmapa for exemple.
That's why i say, that Buddhism was not clear with himself.

3th Point, Popular Buddhism ,excuse me still speak about Heavens and hells , see Gampopa for exemple:

8 hot hells
8 cold hells
and 2 others.

This for Tibetans Buddhism.

To be continued.

 

[Thierry_rhodan]

I know it's Middle way.

Milarepa ...try to translate my best :

From the Ultimate point of view,
They exist no Daemon, No Bouddha ...
From relative point of view
Samsara, Nirvana all exist.

Think it's great ,but " mind playing" in a way !!!

Christians , I have great dialogues with Buddhist, and want to say Thanks also:

Have speak a loot about ,and I receive some txt :

DH 379-380
We must actived the Self....Self is master of the Self.

DH 160
The Self is master of the Self.

Have also a txt of a exchange between Vacchagotta and Gotama ( the Buddha)

" Dear Gotama does the Self exist ?"
" Dear Gotama does the Self don't exist ?"
And the Buddha don't reply.

Have also a teaching of Kempo Tsultrim Gyamso Rimpoché , who speak indeed about Atman but like you say BEYOND " Eternalism" and " Nihilism".

Think we don't search too much...

 

[vajradhara]

Ok, so first ,you admit that Buddhism is not Hindouism.
See for exemple the Bhagavad Gîta , try to made a correct translation because i'm french native ( But this Forum is so great I love him)

Song 2 : 13-14 for exemple, 18 " this body have an end , but the Spirit who incarnate was Eternal , indestrucible, incommensurable ( limitless)".

It's a first point.
A second one, Buddhism still teach about transmigration, see for exemple the Karmapa line.
urgyen Trinley Dorje was the 17 th Karmapa for exemple.
That's why i say, that Buddhism was not clear with himself.

3th Point, Popular Buddhism ,excuse me still speak about Heavens and hells , see Gampopa for exemple:

8 hot hells
8 cold hells
and 2 others.

This for Tibetans Buddhism.

To be continued.

Namaste

of course i do... if Buddhism were Hinduism, it would be called Hinduism and not Buddhism

you are incorrect, my friend. they teach rebirth, not transmigration. the Dalai Lama, the Karmapa, the Panchen Lama et al. are reborn. but even this is not an adequate description as they are actually emmanations of particular Bodhisattvas.

it is clear, mon ami, however, you have misunderstood

j'ne comprede "popular Buddhism" do you mean Pure Land, or Zen, or T'ien Tai or ??????

 

[Thierry_rhodan]

Thank very much, the lineage of the Karmapa go back to the primordial BUDDHA.
In a way maybe we can say, that WE ARE ALSO " primordial Buddha".
It's very important,because if we are in the "image" of the primordial Buddha...this can be a common stuff with Christianism.

Will give some Bible ref. later.(I'm working).

But loot of Teachers of Christianity, says that we was, we are and will be the " image of Christ".

Will give ref, from the Bible.Very explicite about.

If so indeed Reincarnation, transmigration have no interest.

 

[Thierry_rhodan]

One day , i go inside a Buddhist Temple saying that i want to meet the Karmapa.And the Buddhist there say me, you know the lineage of the Karmapa go back to TILOPA ( 988 ), and Tilopa receive all from the PRIMORDIAL BUDDHA :
VAJRADHARA.
This Buddha is "inside you".
Oups, what a strong reply.

 

[Thierry_rhodan]

Galatians 2:20 " Christ liveth in me"
1 Corinthians 3:16 " The SPIRIT OF GOD dwelleth in you"
1 Corinthians 2:11 " The Things of GOD, knowetg no man but the SPIRIT of GOD".

Paul will explain also that we are the FIRST CHURCH the one created before the SUN....let's say intemporal .But the Church a-temporel ,the CHURCH Ultimatly " interconnected"....It's pure Buddhism

 

[Fatherofpower]

Hey there All!I find Buddhism very interesting, seeing that i love all that Kung-Fu! stuff.

Why do you like Buddism?
How do u spell Buddism?

 

[Thierry_rhodan]

If you like Kung-Fu , it will be great if you read some Bodhidharma stuff.
Who introduce Buddhism in China ,and INDIA martial arts.