Christian Viewpoint On The Gun Debate

[JosephZ]

I don't know the future.

“Better to have, and not need, than to need, and not have.”​

might need them to use against a tyrannical government...

 

[BurningBush84]

View attachment 329220

Can't have the government shooting at Republicans, they might hit some Dems in the crossfire. And we can't have that .

 

[Photon Guy]

I used to go elk hunting in Wyoming every year with my boss and I loved it but someone broke into my house and stole my hunting rifle. Not long after I stopped working for that guy and haven’t been back since. I’d love to start going again but I can’t afford a gun safe and being much older and more responsible I won’t own another rifle without having a gun safe to keep it away from my kids and out of the hands of any criminals. I have a small 22 cal pistol for home defense and I keep it locked up in a lock box. I’ve been wanting to get back into hunting again, just don’t have the money to do it right now.

Yes I would highly recommend getting a gun safe, but as you say it's an issue of expense so I know what you mean. Hunting can be expensive.

 

[Photon Guy]

Semi automatics are the way to go for hunting.

It depends on what you're hunting. For duck hunting a good pump action shotgun should be just fine. I went gator and hog hunting and used a bolt action rifle along with a revolver that I used as a sidearm. For most medium to large game however semi automatics are usually much better as you often need a quick follow up shot.

 

[Photon Guy]

Among those gazillion other things, is anything as effective?

There is some stuff that is far more effective than guns when it comes to killing, airplanes for instance as we found out during 9/11, or diseases as we found out with COVID.

But they are out there in our society. So far in 2023 95 mass shootings with 141 dead and 365 wounded. Do you have a solution to this problem or do you not see a problem?

List of mass shootings in the United States in 2023 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

My solution would be better enforcement of the laws that say you can't do mass shootings.

 

[Photon Guy]

Ignoring that one can hunt without a gun just fine (as they did in Biblical times), I support gun control, not necessarily a total gun ban.

Yes some people do go bowhunting but to say everybody should hunt with just bows, as they did in biblical times, would be absurd, as absurd as it would be to say that everybody should use horses instead of cars to get from here to there. After all, people got around just fine in Biblical times without cars so maybe people today should use horses instead of cars just like they did in Biblical times, silly isn't it?

Also you have to take into account just what people would be hunting today vs what they would be hunting in Biblical times. To the best of my knowledge they did not hunt big brown bears for instance back during that time period in that part of the world, but people do hunt big brown bears today and hunting such a bear with just a bow would be foolish.

If you want a non-automatic or non-semiautomatic, stock gun without the upgrades for the purposes of hunting, then super.

Depending on what you're hunting you might need the quick follow up shots that semi automatic rifles are capable of, in fact most hunting rifles are semi automatic.

However, an overwhelming number of gun sales are not to people who want to hunt, and none of the semi-automatic, enhanced non-automatic, AR-15 style guns are appropriate or designed for hunting animals. There is literally no reason the layman needs those and I’m perfectly fine with those being severely limited and/or banned.

The only difference an AR-15 style rifle has from a hunting rifle is cosmetic. The .223 and 5.56 rounds are commonly used for hunting vermin and as I mentioned above most hunting rifles are semi automatic which is what the AR-15 style rifles are. So AR-15 style rifles function the same way as most hunting rifles, they just have certain cosmetic features that make them look like they're weapons of warfare even though they're not.

As for "assault rifles" those are clearly defined as fully automatic rifles and they mostly are banned, unless you've got a job where you're using them such as if you're a soldier in the Army or if you're in a special police division such as SWAT.

 

[Photon Guy]

I don’t think the solution with a bad guy with a gun is a self-appointed, layman “good guy” with marginal training holding a bigger gun. We don’t live in the Wild West.

The real Wild West was more like the Mild West, shootouts were quite rare. It's not like how Hollywood makes it out to be.

 

[Photon Guy]

Well, murders will always occur because some criminals will always resort to murder. We may as well make murder legal and allow people to preemptively murder people they feel like could be a problem. To outlaw murder only hurts and punished law abiding citizens who wish to not be victims.

There is no good reason to commit murder. There are however good reasons to own and use guns, not the least being hunting.

 

[Photon Guy]

Because 100 years ago the US military and other worldwide nations weren’t sure they were ethical to use in wars and today, we have overcome that to such a startling degree that we can saw children in half with them during a mass shooting at an elementary school and not blink an eye, only say “yeah, but I’m not giving up mine.”

You're talking more about full automatics.

 

[JosephZ]

My solution would be better enforcement of the laws that say you can't do mass shootings.

Would you object making the requirements for purchasing and owning a gun universal across all 50 states with:

• Universal background checks on all gun purchases and transfers, including private transfers and sales at gun shows;
• Require a 10 day waiting period on all gun purchases;
• Require registration and a license for each gun that a person owns;
• Have a minimum age limit to purchase a gun of 21 to purchase a handgun and require a hunting license for purchases of rifles or shotguns by adults under 21 who are not in the military or law enforcement;
• Require training and a proficiency test and;
• Obtain a letter from a doctor that an individual is of sound mind and body to own a gun before being allowed to purchase one.

 

[coffee4u]

Speaking from a biblical perspective this is my viewpoint on the gun debate. Christians should be for gun rights. Why? Because guns are used for hunting and the Bible justifies hunting. Even if you're a Christian pacifist you've got to admit that guns are used for hunting. So if for no other reason Christians should be for gun rights because guns are used for hunting.

You are speaking from an American perspective not a Christian perspective.
There is this frankly weird thing, that Americans think that gun rights are 'christian' or 'conservative' points of view and that anyone who speaks against it must be left wing. Its so odd to me.

Outside of America a person may be Christian and or conservative and be pro or against gun laws.
I'm Christian, I am right leaning and I am pro gun laws. Undoubtedly because I am not American.

Gun laws are designed to make it harder for unstable people to own guns and for certain types of guns to be sold. It isn't about stopping someone going hunting nor is it about being a pacifist. It's about preventing some 18 year old phyco being able to purchase a bundle of high power weaponry as easy as buying a stick of gum. We have not had a mass shooting here in over 20 years due to our gun laws.
No one needs any of the most known dangerous guns for hunting. Native people hunted very effectively with bows and arrows, spears and boomerangs, so a modern day hunter should be able to do so using a basic gun.

As to being Christian, unless you are hunting and using all of the animal as best you can then I personally think its sinful animal cruelty. Hunting an animal to stick its head on a wall to simply boast about killing it is disgusting and an abuse of our dominion over the world.

 

[BNR32FAN]

It depends on what you're hunting. For duck hunting a good pump action shotgun should be just fine. I went gator and hog hunting and used a bolt action rifle along with a revolver that I used as a sidearm. For most medium to large game however semi automatics are usually much better as you often need a quick follow up shot.

I think for most bird hunting I’d prefer a semi auto or double barrel shotgun. If you miss 2 shots chances are that they’ll be out of range by then anyway. With a semi auto or a double barrel you don’t have to take your bead off of them to reload. With a pump you can kind of keep your aim but most likely your not going to be as dead on accurate as a semi auto or double barrel. Just my opinion.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Yes I would highly recommend getting a gun safe, but as you say it's an issue of expense so I know what you mean. Hunting can be expensive.

Yeah we’d pay $360 just for an out of state elk tag and that’s just for the license. Of course that was 20 years ago I don’t know how much they are now. That’s not even half the cost to drive up there and hunt for 7-10 days. Sure was a lot of fun tho. I miss the rainbow trout fishing to. A lot of beautiful country up near Dixon Wyoming. I remember a resident elk license was $36.

 

[Photon Guy]

PS, rape survivor here. You know what I didn’t need during the rape? A gun. A gun would have made things infinitely worse.

I don't know your exact situation but I will say this much, if guns weren't effective at stopping bad people, people that rape, people that murder, ect. then police wouldn't carry them. After all the very purpose of having police officers is to stop bad people so police officers wouldn't carry and use guns if doing so wasn't an effective method for them to do their job.

 

[Photon Guy]

Would you object making the requirements for purchasing and owning a gun universal across all 50 states with:

• Universal background checks on all gun purchases and transfers, including private transfers and sales at gun shows;
• Require a 10 day waiting period on all gun purchases;
• Require registration and a license for each gun that a person owns;
• Have a minimum age limit to purchase a gun of 21 to purchase a handgun and require a hunting license for purchases of rifles or shotguns by adults under 21 who are not in the military or law enforcement;
• Require training and a proficiency test and;
• Obtain a letter from a doctor that an individual is of sound mind and body to own a gun before being allowed to purchase one.

What you propose presents many problems that Im not going to go into detail about right now as I do not have the time to do so at this moment, but I will say this much for now, your proposals would make gun ownership into a privilege not a right. The right to keep and bear arms as identified by the 2A is defined as exactly that, a right not a privilege. So your proposals to against the Constitution, specifically the 2A.

 

[Photon Guy]

You are speaking from an American perspective not a Christian perspective.

Im speaking from a Christian perspective, the Bible does justify hunting.

There is this frankly weird thing, that Americans think that gun rights are 'christian' or 'conservative' points of view and that anyone who speaks against it must be left wing. It's so odd to me.

Not necessarily.

Outside of America a person may be Christian and or conservative and be pro or against gun laws.

True, although if they're against guns and gun rights they're going against the Bible for the reason I posted above.

I'm Christian, I am right leaning and I am pro gun laws. Undoubtedly because I am not American.

Yes people who are right leaning can be for gun laws just as people who are left leaning can be for gun rights.

Gun laws are designed to make it harder for unstable people to own guns and for certain types of guns to be sold.

Not if unstable people are getting guns illegally or if certain types of guns that are not supposed to be sold are being sold illegally.

It isn't about stopping someone going hunting nor is it about being a pacifist. It's about preventing some 18 year old phyco being able to purchase a bundle of high power weaponry as easy as buying a stick of gum.

What about a 38 year old psycho or a 48 year old psycho or a 58 year old psycho?

We have not had a mass shooting here in over 20 years due to our gun laws.

Might I ask where you're from?

No one needs any of the most known dangerous guns for hunting. Native people hunted very effectively with bows and arrows, spears and boomerangs, so a modern day hunter should be able to do so using a basic gun.

I wouldn't recommend hunting game such as big bears or hippos or elephants with such weapons.

As to being Christian, unless you are hunting and using all of the animal as best you can then I personally think its sinful animal cruelty. Hunting an animal to stick its head on a wall to simply boast about killing it is disgusting and an abuse of our dominion over the world.

Many hunters do use all of the animal as best they can.

 

[Photon Guy]

I think for most bird hunting I’d prefer a semi auto or double barrel shotgun. If you miss 2 shots chances are that they’ll be out of range by then anyway. With a semi auto or a double barrel you don’t have to take your bead off of them to reload. With a pump you can kind of keep your aim but most likely your not going to be as dead on accurate as a semi auto or double barrel. Just my opinion.

I've never gone duck hunting but if you do need a quick follow up shot for that then yes, a double barreled shotgun or a semi auto shotgun would be ideal.

 

[Postvieww]

More gun laws will solve nothing! The laws we have are not even enforced. This whole gun control movement is not about safety or saving lives it ultimately is about gun confiscation and taking away the right to legal gun ownership.

For those that disagree tell me what wording you would put into a law that would have any effect whatsoever on the violent criminal, the gang member or the criminally insane?

I would rather have a law-abiding neighbor with a machine gun or a tank than a criminally insane neighbor with a knife.

The article below is just one example of many to show how more regulations will only affect law abiding citizens. The criminal will pay no attention to such regulations.

The ATF Expansion of the Gun Registry Turns Law-Abiding Gun Owners into Felons | Olivia Rondeau

 

[Photon Guy]

For those that disagree tell me what wording you would put into a law that would have any effect whatsoever on the violent criminal, the gang member or the criminally insane?

They apparently want gun laws like what they've got in countries such as England and Australia and Japan where they have really strict gun laws and much less gun crime.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

There is some stuff that is far more effective than guns when it comes to killing, airplanes for instance as we found out during 9/11, or diseases as we found out with COVID.

My solution would be better enforcement of the laws that say you can't do mass shootings.

How would we do that without further gun control?