Christian Universalism. What's not to like?

[Lazarus Short]

Matthew 21:31 NIV
“Which of the two did what his father wanted?” “The first,” they answered. Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you.

Look at that! Even the opponents of Jesus get to go in...eventually. Like, after the tax collectors and prostitutes. It's almost like the last page of most Chick tracts.

 

[Saint Steven]

Matthew 21:31 NIV
“Which of the two did what his father wanted?” “The first,” they answered. Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you.

The context on the quoted verse above is noteworthy. (see below)

Matthew 21:28-32 NIV
The Parable of the Two Sons
28 “What do you think? There was a man who had two sons. He went to the first and said, ‘Son, go and work today in the vineyard.’
29 “‘I will not,’ he answered, but later he changed his mind and went.
30 “Then the father went to the other son and said the same thing. He answered, ‘I will, sir,’ but he did not go.
31 “Which of the two did what his father wanted?”
“The first,” they answered.
Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you. 32 For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.

 

[Saint Steven]

Look at that! Even the opponents of Jesus get to go in...eventually. Like, after the tax collectors and prostitutes. It's almost like the last page of most Chick tracts.

Right. I think the vast majority will be very surprised on that day. Those who thought they didn't have a snowball's chance will enter quicker than those who thought it was a slam-dunk. A surprise to both.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

What is the relevance of these questions? Universalism is not about virtue signalling, it's a statement about Scriptural truth, whether one agrees with it or not.

The relevance of those questions is they point out to Saint Steven that UR isn't the only position that argues with those who aver for ECT.

I know you guys do more than virtue signalling, and I never said that that is all you guys do. There is in fact several other types of Advertising Propaganda that you all do in addition to this, and I realize that virtue signalling isn't the only one these tactics that you all too often employ. Like these for instance:

Public Relations and Propaganda Techniques | GW PR Program​

You guys do make excellent adverstisers for UR, I must say!

At this point, I imagine you're digging in your heels and grinding your teeth.... just.... about ....... NOW!

Enjoy that feeling.

See ya!

 

[Saint Steven]

You guys do make excellent adverstisers for UR, I must say!

Pfft... the word "advertisers" assumes we are selling something for a profit. (cheap shot)
We are more like the local library, informing folks for free.
I suppose you are upset because your library card hasn't arrived yet. - lol

 

[Saint Steven]

At this point, I imagine you're digging in your heels and grinding your teeth.... just.... about ....... NOW!

Nope.
C'mon Phil, you know that "weeping and gnashing of teeth" is for the Hell Yes! crowd.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Pfft... the word "advertisers" assumes we are selling something for a profit. (cheap shot)
We are more like the local library, informing folks for free.
I suppose you are upset because your library card hasn't arrived yet. - lol

No, I'm not angry. But I am rather grated by the constant dismissive attitudes you guys constantly employ, attitudes that are laced quite often with really bad attempts at humor.

You guys want me to acknowledge that you "know something" and have something to share with the rest of us? Then you need to do likewise and reciprocate, without all of the tactics employed which are listed in that link I shared above.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Nope.
C'mon Phil, you know that "weeping and gnashing of teeth" is for the Hell Yes! crowd.

That was actually humorous.

 

[Saint Steven]

No, I'm not angry. But I am rather grated by the constant dismissive attitudes you guys constantly employ, attitudes that are laced quite often with really bad attempts at humor.

You guys want me to acknowledge that you "know something" and have something to share with the rest of us? Then you need to do likewise and reciprocate, without all of the tactics employed which are listed in that link I shared above.

Equally grating are your constant demands that we measure up to your philosophical requirements to make a point. So... I guess that saw cuts both ways.

 

[Saint Steven]

That was actually humorous.

My sincerest apologies. I have no idea how that happened.
Rather uncharacteristic, as you know.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Equally grating are your constant demands that we measure up to your philosophical requirements to make a point. So... I guess that saw cuts both ways.

I'm sorry you see it that way. Because from my vantage point, you guys basically do your best to knock the saw out of my hand before I even get to begin to cut ... yet you're all just sawing away!

 

[2PhiloVoid]

My sincerest apologies. I have no idea how that happened.
Rather uncharacteristic, as you know.

Ah, I see. You're on a roll this morning.

 

[Lazarus Short]

I'm sorry you see it that way. Because from my vantage point, you guys basically do your best to knock the saw out of my hand before I even get to begin to cut ... yet you're all just sawing away!

I saw what you did there...

 

[Andrewn]

The second said this,
Aristotle Rhetoric Book 1 chapter 12[not 10]
[17] But there is a difference between revenge and punishment; the latter is inflicted in the interest of the sufferer, the former in the interest of him who inflicts it, that he may obtain satisfaction..
Aristotle, Rhetoric, book 1

OK, κολασις means punishment inflicted in the interest of the sufferer. IOW, corrective punishment as I wrote before.

Would you like to review the 26 verses I posted multiple times, which described/define "aionios" as "eternal,""for ever,""everlasting?"

The Lord said, "Now this is αἰώνιος ζωή, that they should know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ" (Joh 17:3). This is the definition of aionios life according to the Lord himself. It is not endless life or everlasting life. We know that it is endless and everlasting from other verses but not from the expression "aionios life."

In this verse Jesus parallels “aionios” and “aion” with “[not] snatch them out of my hand”, “never perish.” If “aion/aionios” means “age(s), a finite period,” that is not the opposite of “[not] snatch them out of my hand’/never perish” “Aionios life” by definition here means “eternal life.”

Many have the habit of mixing "aion" and "aionios" as if the noun and the adjective are the same word. But then they forget that they are related (not the same) when they render "aionios" as "eternal"!

 

[Saint Steven]

I'm sorry you see it that way. Because from my vantage point, you guys basically do your best to knock the saw out of my hand before I even get to begin to cut ... yet you're all just sawing away!

It's for your own protection.
Helpful hint: Always sit on the trunk side of the branch you are cutting.

 

[Saint Steven]

Ah, I see. You're on a roll this morning.

You can call me hot pastrami this morning. - lol

 

[2PhiloVoid]

It's for your own protection.
Helpful hint: Always sit on the trunk side of the branch you are cutting.

Well.... I see that you're off to a good start in considering how to best disabuse me of my wayward thinking!

 

[Saint Steven]

I'm sorry you see it that way.

It may be more productive if you INFORM us of what you are thinking, rather than GRILL us when you have the answer book.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

It may be more productive if you INFORM us of what you are thinking, rather than GRILL us when you have the answer book.

Ok. But first off, what's the point of this thread on the whole? I'm just reviewing the OP to see where I went wrong. Maybe I misunderstood what you guys were wanting to hear from respondents.

 

[Andrewn]

A question for Team Hell that I can't work out. How is it possible to be happy in heaven with all our tears wiped away if one of our loved ones is suffering eternal torment? And how could God be happy when He is a Father to us all and He has said that He desires all to be saved? Or did Christ's sacrifice not quite manage to triumph over all sadness and grief?

I'm not on Team Hell but will answer any way . There are 2 possibilities:

1) Their memories will be wiped out.

2) Their hearts will be calloused.

Both answers lead to the same conclusion: They will not be humans.