Christian Universalism. What's not to like?

[ozso]

I knew this was coming. That is not quite what John said.

John 21:25
25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.​

You can check this for yourself. When John wrote what I quoted why would he say what he did? Did he not know that, supposedly, all mankind would be saved?
Where is it written that those who were told to remain filthy etc. would be saved? Where is it written that those outside new Jerusalem would be saved? Where is it written that those who take away from what God dictated to John would have their right to the book of life taken away then restored?

Are you sure he didn't mean Revelation 10:4?

 

[ozso]

That's ok. I'll just assume you know what I'm talking about anyway since you must have surely gotten some solid things out of those Mathematics classes (and who knows what else) that I know you've had. You're a smart guy, and no one is doubting this, at least I'm not.

You're mighty clever though.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

It's hard to tell who's better at trying to confusticate, you or Fervent.

It's hard to tell, I know. Just keep in mind what 'Truth' is, and I'm sure you'll no in no time.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

You're mighty clever though.

If only that were true. **

 

[ozso]

It's hard to tell, I know. Just keep in mind what 'Truth' is, and I'm sure you'll no in no time.

The truth isn't exemplified in trying to imitate Gregory House.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

The truth isn't exemplified in trying to imitate Gregory House.

Oh no! We have a case of mis-identification then due to some faulty acting on my part, because honestly, I'm trying to imitate Johnny Blaze.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

The truth isn't exemplified in trying to imitate Gregory House.

But seriously speaking now, I don't think Gregory House, being the atheist that he's supposed to be, would state what I've stated back up in posts #3525 and #3526.

Take those posts as my calling cards, because they say what I truly think.

 

[Der Alte]

OK, κολασις means punishment inflicted in the interest of the sufferer. IOW, corrective punishment as I wrote before.

That is the view of only one person, so far. The word "kolasis" occurs twice in the NT. The other occurrence is,

EOB 1 Jonn 4:18
18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, because fear is connected with punishment[kolasis]. But the one who fears is not yet perfect in love.
Cleenewerck, L. (Ed.). (2011). The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible: New Testament (1 Jn 4:17–18). Laurent A. Cleenewerck.​

"Punishment" not perfect no correction.

The Lord said, "Now this is αἰώνιος ζωή, that they should know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ" (Joh 17:3). This is the definition of aionios life according to the Lord himself. It is not endless life or everlasting life. We know that it is endless and everlasting from other verses but not from the expression "aionios life."

Jesus used the word "aionios" 28 times He never used it to refer to anything ordinary, mundane which was not or could not be eternal. Ten of those occurrences Jesus describes/defines "aionios" as eternal, everlasting etc.;
Lk 1:33, Jhn 6:58, 10:28, 3:15, 3:16, 5:29, 3:36, 4:14, 6:27, 8:51
If "aionios" does not mean eternal, everlasting in and of itself how can it be made to mean "eternal" by adding other words to it? Are there any other Greek words that function like this?

Many have the habit of mixing "aion" and "aionios" as if the noun and the adjective are the same word. But then they forget that they are related (not the same) when they render "aionios" as "eternal"!

That is true but I did not do that. The verse you are referring to both "aion" and "aionios" occur in that verse.

 

[ozso]

But seriously speaking now, I don't think Gregory House, being the atheist that he's supposed to be, would state what I've stated back up in posts #3525 and #3526.

Take those posts as my calling cards, because they say what I truly think.

I'm talking about the character's snappy comebacks and cunning biting wit. Some of your posts remind me some of the type of dialog that's written for him. While it's entertaining, it makes it kind of hard to keep a genuine straightforward conversation going.

 

[Der Alte]

Are you sure he didn't mean Revelation 10:4?

And what do you think the 7 thunders might have said that refutes what John later wrote in Rev chap 21-22?

 

[ozso]

And what do you think the 7 thunders might have said that refutes what John later wrote in Rev chap 21-22?

Idk, that's in Lazarus' court. I just figured since you guys were discussing Revelation, he was probably referring to Revelation 10:4 when he wrote, "John was (IIRC) instructed to NOT write down some things".

 

[Der Alte]

***

...Possibility 1 could lead to some bizarre scenarios. Here's one. Suppose a man's wife and children died and your wife wasn't a Christian so under Team Hell rules she goes to hell. And then suppose you die and go to heaven. You meet your children but your memory of your wife has been erased in accordance with option 1 so that you don't feel sad about her. How then could you explain the fact that you had children? ...

Interesting scenario. Is that what happens in UR? A family everyone is a Christian, except one. They all eventually die all go to heaven except the one non-Christian who is punished in a fiery environment for an indeterminate period then also goes to heaven. Does God wipe their memories so none of them remember that one was punished, including the one who was punished? What would be the purpose of that?
Alternate scenario: The one who was punished does remember the punishment. Are they going to be filled with love for God who punished them? 60+% of the time that does not happen in this life. People who have been imprisoned often try to take revenge against those they blame for their circumstances? Does God somehow wipe out this desire for vengeance?

 

[Lazarus Short]

I knew this was coming. That is not quite what John said.

John 21:25
25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.​

You can check this for yourself. When John wrote what I quoted why would he say what he did? Did he not know that, supposedly, all mankind would be saved?
Where is it written that those who were told to remain filthy etc. would be saved? Where is it written that those outside new Jerusalem would be saved? Where is it written that those who take away from what God dictated to John would have their right to the book of life taken away then restored?

I recall that we were discussing the Revelation, and the verse I had in mind was Revelation 10:4. I think you missed your cue.

As for your questions, I may as well be the fellow in Ecclesiastes who tried to blow into the wind.

 

[Lazarus Short]

Are you sure he didn't mean Revelation 10:4?

A big ten-four there, good buddy!

 

[ozso]

A big ten-four there, good buddy!

Pretty good guess for someone who doesn't read posts or the Bible eh?

 

[ozso]

Interesting scenario. Is that what happens in UR? A family everyone is a Christian, except one. They all eventually die all go to heaven except the one non-Christian who is punished in a fiery environment for an indeterminate period then also goes to heaven. Does God wipe their memories so none of them remember that one was punished, including the one who was punished? What would be the purpose of that?
Alternate scenario: The one who was punished does remember the punishment. Are they going to be filled with love for God who punished them? 60+% of the time that does not happen in this life. People who have been imprisoned often try to take revenge against those they blame for their circumstances? Does God somehow wipe out this desire for vengeance?

If you don't mind my butting in, from the UR perspective it's more like a rehab detox. Those can be pretty tormenting to go though from what I understand. Also as to the unsaved family member scenario, I'd imagine from the UR perspective “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.” (Acts 16:31) comes to mind. (I know from the ET perspective, that verse doesn't mean that).

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I'm talking about the character's snappy comebacks and cunning biting wit. Some of your posts remind me some of the type of dialog that's written for him. While it's entertaining, it makes it kind of hard to keep a genuine straightforward conversation going.

Alright then! I'm glad we could finally come to a mutual understanding, which with the holiday season being here, that's a pretty good thing.

It sounds like my work here is done, and so I leave you all with tidings of comfort and joy and with wishes that you all have a ...

 

[Der Alte]

***

If you don't mind my butting in, from the UR perspective it's more like a rehab detox. Those can be pretty tormenting to go though from what I understand. Also as to the unsaved family member scenario, I'd imagine from the UR perspective “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.” (Acts 16:31) comes to mind. (I know from the ET perspective, that verse doesn't mean that).

Interesting manipulation of scripture. If that is true, without exception, as you apparently understand it, that would mean that not nobody, not no how would ever be punished for any length of time. Yet, I see verses which state somebody is going to be tossed into fiery furnaces, the LOF etc. How do we resolve that?
Perhaps we should look closer at the context and not assume that every verse refers to UR. Paul was not preaching/teaching to a large group he was speaking to only one person, the keeper of the prison, and was referring to him alone and his immediate family not all of their relatives and not all of mankind and all of their extended families. God does not have any grand children only sons and daughters.

 

[Hmm]

It sounds like my work here is done, and so I leave you all with tidings of comfort and joy and with wishes that you all have a ...

Thanks and UR welcome to return anytime over the festive period if you're not getting any arguments IRL!

 

[Saint Steven]

If there is one thing that might annoy me, though, it's when any other Christians employ a framework that all too firmly states they can clearly and discernibly identify, and will ardently work against, what they see as a "Harlot Church." This is most especially the case for me when brethren of any sort, from any other denomination, work overtime to make sure I'm informed about and come to know that I'm in the "Harlot Church" which they've so clairvoyantly discerned.

Other than that, I'm good.

Okay, but that doesn't have anything to do with UR, correct?
If so... it's not something that annoys you about UR.

Do you not commit to UR simply because you don't commit to anything?
(maybe I am misunderstanding you)