Christian Universalism. What's not to like?

[Saint Steven]

These comments are something I readily agree with.

Did you check his sources, Phil?
Looks pretty fishy to me. - lol

 

[Der Alte]

Have you tried Metamucil? (works wonders)

Miralax works better.

 

[Saint Steven]

What about heliogabalus peculiarities parabolous?

This should help.

 

[Saint Steven]

Are you a modern Major General?

More like Mono Sodium Glutimate. - lol

 

[Saint Steven]

Actually, and believe it or not, I do read your posts, unless...
length is excessive,
multi-colors are used,
quotes are present from or reference is made to those three [irrefutable] Jewish sources
or they begin with "Rubbish!" "Wrong!" or suchlike.

So... never then?

 

[Der Alte]

So... never then?

Sew wit wood seam.

 

[Ceallaigh]

What's your complaint, exactly? That I'm not dumbing it down to a 3rd grade vocabulary?

I think you're being purposefully esoteric in order to obfuscate.

 

[Fervent]

I think you're being purposefully esoteric in order to obfuscate.

No obfuscation, just don't want to hand hold through intertextual references only to end up being accused of overcomplicating.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Would our feelings one way or another have any influence whatsoever on what God will do? A related question, God said that He is not willing that any should perish, how do you think God felt when He destroyed thousands, all mankind, men, women, old, young, infants etc. by drowning, except Noah and his family?
How do you think God felt when He destroyed all living things in and around Sodom and Gomorrah by fire? Then we have all the inhabitants, old, young, men, women etc. of Canaan and surrounding areas. God is love. How does a father feel when even one of his children dies?
Let's throw some more human reasoning into the mix. Why didn't God just change their hearts and minds and let them live? Wouldn't that be the most humane thing God could have done?

As I've pointed before, those examples are a trillion miles away from eternal torment.

 

[Ceallaigh]

No obfuscation, just don't want to hand hold through intertextual references only to end up being accused of overcomplicating.

Even tremendous intellects like Stephen Hawking are capable of making themselves understandable. So if you're not understandable, that's on you. A true intellectual knows how to be fully and clearly understood and succeeds at it.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Just a personal observation.

Feel free to check with me if you wish. I'm an "expert" on my own opinions. (most days anyway)

When I arrived on this forum I didn't even know what Christian Universalism was. There were two people on the forum that I knew of who did. They are mostly off the forum now. Now there are a good half dozen regulars and a few others that show up now and then. And my research indicates other groups around the world. All this looks like gaining traction to me. But what do I know?

So, are you agnostic about UR?

Am I agnostic about UR? I've answered this elsewhere in this thread. Unlike a number of others, I don't think I need to repeat myself.

 

[Der Alte]

As I've pointed before, those examples are a trillion miles away from eternal torment.

How would you explain it to a non-Christian? Would they not think that God is a horrible ogre killing innocent children and infants not unlike; Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Qadaffi, several militant Muslim factions etc?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

If you need butt rest... pull up a chair. - lol

I'm going to take your response as a "no."

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Did you check his sources, Phil?
Looks pretty fishy to me. - lol

You're funny, Steven. What gives though? Do you guys think your UR position is the only one that argues with ECT on the meaning and application of aion/aionion/aionios? Do you think your UR position is the only one concerned about those who die without Christ or who have never officially heard about Jesus?

 

[2PhiloVoid]

This is an example of where philosophy etc has fallen far behind science. What it means for a language to be unambiguous was defined mathematically by Alan Turing in the 1930's in terms of his Turing machine - essentially, a computer language is unambiguous, all other languages including human languages are not. Turing is known as the father of computing and it was his work that that enabled the Allies to break the German Enigma code machine in WW2.

Did you happen to learn all of this in an English class at college, Hmm? I'm just wondering.

 

[Ceallaigh]

How would you explain it to a non-Christian? Would they not think that God is a horrible ogre killing innocent children and infants not unlike; Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Qadaffi, several militant Muslim factions etc?

From what I've experienced they usually bring up everlasting torment first and foremost.

But aside from that, you didn't mention two atomic bombs being dropped on Japan. Which is probably the most apt comparison. Why isn't Harry S Truman on that list of those who committed atrocities?

Also according to the statistics I looked up, approximately 120 people die per minute. That's 7,200 per hour and 172,800 per day. So one could say God is killing nearly 200k people per day. And 6,700 of them are newborns.

 

[Der Alte]

Did you happen to learn all of this in an English class at college, Hmm? I'm just wondering.

Probably the same movie I saw. Turing was ostracized because he was homosexual. In the movie after a number failures they noticed the same letter grouping at the end of all German messages. They rightly assumed it was required, "Heil Hitler." That permitted the "computer" to determine the rest of the alphabet.

 

[Ceallaigh]

You are quite mistaken go back to our first few encounters. I virtually always play real nice until someone accuses me of not knowing what I'm talking about, accuses me of just parroting what some [insulting epithet] pastor.teacher has told me etc.

You seem to have a penchant for telling people to go on fishing expeditions. How's about I just go by the flow of this thread, which is what I'm doing.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Probably the same movie I saw. Turing was ostracized because he was homosexual. In the movie after a number failures they noticed the same letter grouping at the end of all German messages. They rightly assumed it was required, "Heil Hitler." That permitted the "computer" to determine the rest of the alphabet.

Yeah, I've seen The Imitation Game, and it is a good movie. The only thing is, this bit that Hmm has stated in relation to Alan Turing is a Red-Herring and is extraneous to what he was talking about just prior to that.

Whatever the case, I guess Hmm feels he's put me in "check."

 

[Ceallaigh]

You are quite mistaken go back to our first few encounters. I virtually always play real nice until someone accuses me of not knowing what I'm talking about, accuses me of just parroting what some [insulting epithet] pastor.teacher has told me etc.

Okay, this time I went on a fishing expedition. I searched for the first time I wrote "universalism" which took me to this thread: David Bentley Hart on Hell

In that thread it appears we were both playing nice until post #264:

Jesus condemned what the Jews were teaching in His time. So it would seem if anything He was using their heresy and hypocrisy against them, while condemning them and pronouncing their impending doom via Rome.

Nonsense. Twisting the words of scripture and the historical sources trying to make them say what you want them to.

So there you have it. You drew first blood as they say. Perhaps I should save this for future events when you say something like "I virtually always play real nice until someone accuses me....". (post #3450 of this thread).