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Christian Universalism. What's not to like?

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Andrewn

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I think so too and it's why we need to be very careful before claiming infallible scriptural knowledge when we are asserting something about God that every child can tell you is wrong, such as that He will torment people for ever. Aren't we commanded to believe as little children do?
What is absolutely amazing is to compare modern Christians who hate the idea of UR to ancient Christians who saw first hand the persecution, severe torture, and martyrdom of their families and friends and still believed in a UR that included their torturers!!!

Where is the hate that one would expect? We see ultimate love of their enemies. Just like God who "causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good."

Many of those ancient saints were later tortured themselves and murdered.

UR opponents here could have answered with something like, "I don't think the evidence you present is strong enough but I really hope that you are right and Christ's salvation is for everyone."

Instead, some used abusive language that they would probably not elsewhere.
 
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Hmm

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What is absolutely amazing is to compare modern Christians who hate the idea of UR to ancient Christians who saw first hand the persecution, severe torture, and martyrdom of their families and friends and still believed in a UR that included their torturers!!!

Yes, and I think to people undergoing experiences like that, justice would have meant God giving them a new life in heaven where they were happy and not persecuted and tortured. To many in the more comfortable countries in modern world, God's justice seems to mean.sending those who think differently from us to hell! We have strayed a long way.

UR opponents here could have answered with something like, "I don't think the evidence you present is strong enough but I really hope that you are right and Christ's salvation is for everyone."

Instead, some used abusive language that they would probably not elsewhere.

But it kind of wins the argument for Christian universalism because if this is the best it's antagonists can do...
 
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Der Alte

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What is absolutely amazing is to compare modern Christians who hate the idea of UR to ancient Christians who saw first hand the persecution, severe torture, and martyrdom of their families and friends and still believed in a UR that included their torturers!!!
Where is the hate that one would expect? We see ultimate love of their enemies. Just like God who "causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good."
Many of those ancient saints were later tortured themselves and murdered.
UR opponents here could have answered with something like, "I don't think the evidence you present is strong enough but I really hope that you are right and Christ's salvation is for everyone."
Instead, some used abusive language that they would probably not elsewhere.
Another one of those UR pie in the sky dismissals. There is scant evidence that any significant number of "ancient Christians ... believed in a UR that included their torturers!!!"
Here is what I would consider iron clad evidence of UR, God, Himself, or Jesus, Himself, saying unequivocally that "All mankind will be saved, the righteous and unrighteous, alike even after death" or words to that effect.
And oh by the way when UR-ites stop using abusive language toward those who hold with the literal interpretation of Matthew 25:46 then perhaps they can be more cordial.
 
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Hmm

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Here is what I would consider iron clad evidence of UR, God, Himself, or Jesus, Himself, saying unequivocally that "All mankind will be saved, the righteous and unrighteous, alike even after death" or words to that effect.

You're in luck then:

1 Corinthians 15:22: “for as all die in Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ.”

Romans 5:18: “Therefore just as one man’s trespass led to condemnation for all, so one man’s act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all.”

1 Corinthians 3:11-15 - “For no one can lay another foundation beside the one laid down, which is Jesus the Messiah. Now, if on this foundation one erects gold, silver, precious stones, woods, hay, straw, Each one’s work will become manifest; for the Day will declare it, because it is revealed by fire, and the fire will prove what kind of work each person’s is. If the work that someone has built endures, he will receive a reward; If anyone’s work should be burned away, he will suffer loss, yet he shall be saved, though so as by fire.”

1 Corinthians 15:28 - “And, when all things have been subordinated to him, then will the Son himself also be subordinated to the one who has subordinated all things to him, so that God may be all in all.”

I'll just give you these few for now because I wouldn't want to give you indigestion.
 
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Der Alte

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You're in luck then:
* * *
1 Corinthians 3:11-15 - “For no one can lay another foundation beside the one laid down, which is Jesus the Messiah. Now, if on this foundation one erects gold, silver, precious stones, woods, hay, straw, Each one’s work will become manifest; for the Day will declare it, because it is revealed by fire, and the fire will prove what kind of work each person’s is. If the work that someone has built endures, he will receive a reward; If anyone’s work should be burned away, he will suffer loss, yet he shall be saved, though so as by fire.” * * *
I have addressed these out-of-context proof texts many times before. Do you not understand what "God, Himself," or "Jesus, Himself says" means? Not, what a prophet or disciple wrote but something that starts with "And God, said..." or "And Jesus said...,"
Although you provided some of the context of 1 Cor 3:11-15, you still deliberately ignored the full context.
1 Corinthians 3:9-17
9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.​
These verses clearly show that Paul is not talking to/about all mankind but only to “laborers together with God,””God's husbandry,””God's building” “who build on the foundation of Christ” vss, 9-12.
Paul mentions this foundation three times. Vs. 11 excludes any work not on the foundation of Christ.
The phrases “every man,””no man,””any man,” throughout this passage refer to the group in vss. 9-10, NOT all mankind.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon [the foundation of Christ], he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.​
The work mentioned in these these vss. is NOT the ordinary mundane works of all mankind but the work of building on the foundation of Christ. Man is NOT saved by works.
And vs. 15 does not say anyone is saved by fire. It says, “Yet so as by fire.”
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.​
Vs. 17 clearly refutes UR in this passage. All mankind is not saved, those who defile the temple will be destroyed.
This passage is NOT speaking about all mankind no matter how UR-ites try to twist it.
Nowhere is it written that the loss of ordinary, mundane works of unsaved mankind will save anyone.
 
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Hmm

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I have addressed these out-of-context proof texts many times before. Do you not understand what "God, Himself," or "Jesus, Himself says" means? Not, what a prophet or disciple wrote but something that starts with "And God, said..." or "And Jesus said...,"
Although you provided some of the context of 1 Cor 3:11-15, you still deliberately ignored the full context.
1 Corinthians 3:9-17
9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.​
These verses clearly show that Paul is not talking to/about all mankind but only to “laborers together with God,””God's husbandry,””God's building” “who build on the foundation of Christ” vss, 9-12. Paul mentions this foundation three times. Vs. 11 excludes any work not on the foundation of Christ.
The phrases “every man,””no man,””any man,” throughout this passage refer to the group in vss. 9-10, NOT all mankind.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon [the foundation of Christ], he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.​
The work mentioned in these these vss. is NOT the ordinary mundane works of all mankind but the work of building on the foundation of Christ. Man is NOT saved by works.
And vs. 15 does not say anyone is saved by fire. It says, “Yet so as by fire.”
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.​
Vs. 17 clearly refutes UR in this passage. All mankind is not saved, those who defile the temple will be destroyed.
This passage is NOT speaking about all mankind no matter how UR-ites try to twist it.
Nowhere is it written that the loss of ordinary, mundane works of unsaved mankind will save anyone.

The texts are clear and don't need me to defend their meaning and so I won't. You are of course free to engage in mental gymnastics to assign another meaning to them if you so wish.
 
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Der Alte

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The texts are clear and don't need me to defend their meaning and so I won't. You are of course free to engage in mental gymnastics to assign another meaning to them if you so wish.
I just showed you that you are wrong. 1 Corinthians 3:9-17 has absolutely nothing to do universal reconciliation. The passage is addressed solely to a specific group “laborers together with God,””God's husbandry,””God's building” “who build on the foundation of Christ” NOT all mankind.
Of course, if someone ignores certain verses and emphasizes others they can make scripture say almost anything they want it to.
You can't defend the meaning you have assigned to the verses, while ignoring other verses in the same passage.
 
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Shrewd Manager

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Lol! ... Kierkegaard as a "Pharisee.." ! What a concept! :ahah:

What a special guffaw. All I know about Kierkegaard is that he completely missed the point with his Akedah ruminations.
 
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It seems like hopeful universalism says it is possible and maybe even probable that universal reconciliation will happen

Wouldn't hopeful UR become faithful UR once a person believes it's probable - on the scales? Seems to me there's no room for 'hopeful' UR - you either put faith in it (to some degree) or you don't (ie you reject it). To claim hope and eschew faith in any subject is a kind of no-man's land of hypocritical fence-sitting, which might well earn the claimant a divine mouth-spew. Without at least a modicum of faith behind it, any hope is surely forlorn.

Traditional theology has often understood universalism as saying that there is no accountability, because the standards are so low that everyone gets in.

Well, traditional theology is ignorant. Sadly the darkness just can't comprehend the light.

Hopeful universalism seems to me to say that there are in fact real standards, so failure is conceptually possible, but God may enable everyone to meet them.

A bit legalistic, no? Cast out those money changers. We've all sinned and fallen short. Grace is a gift not a wage. The angel's gospel is glad tidings of great joy for all men, not 'take another heavy burden' - that's the Pharisees' job, as they go in and deny entry to others.

actual universalists are hopeful universalists whose hope is a bit stronger.

I think you're talking about having faith in UR.

I avoid taking a dogmatic position because I don't think we have a clear picture of what will happen. Scripturally I think the most likely picture is reconciliation of many (I hope almost all), but destruction of some. But in saying that I'm looking at hints in the Gospels, and I'm combining 1 Cor 15 (which itself has some ambiguity) with hints in the rest of Paul. So I'm far from confident.

Good to be confident. That's called faith, brother. 'Now give it all up and follow UR.'

Despite attempts to construct one, there is in the Bible no actual description of judgement that answers all the questions we want answered. The Revelation comes the closest, but it's sufficiently symbolic that it is open to multiple interpretations, although probably not UR. To be honest, though, I don't place much weight on the Revelation.

If the Bible told you in such definitive terms, what room would be left for faith? We know God is good, Jesus gives his life to save even his enemies. Grace abounds over sin and so on and so forth. I mean, He's really not asking for much of a leap of faith, them immovable pillars are set on an eternal foundation.

Gehenna, for example, is not an OT word. It was commonly understood as eternal, but anywhere from many to all people eventually got out of it. There's also some indication in the Talmud that it eventually ends, and / or people who didn't get out were eventually destroyed, but it's not clear how common those ideas were. The OT language if taken in the OT context suggests destruction, but that language was used by Jews to refer to Gehenna, which is potentially eternal punishment.

Ok, Gehenna is a Pharisee word, at least that's how Jesus tackles it, wrests it from those 'sons of hell' and redeems it by converting it from a prison/ death house to a hospital. And to this day the devil just keeps scaring ppl with that hobgoblin and convincing them they won't measure up and God will abandon them. That sir is blasphemy against the life-giving HS and a shipwreck of faith. Viva the theion of the Great Physician, anathema to the pharmakaeia of Babylon!

Because he didn't say anything more explicit, and (particularly in Luke) used such a variety of different ways of speaking, I would understand Jesus as talking about accountability, but not the specific form it would take.

Of course it's about overcoming, but the triune God and His angels are here to help. The never said it wouldn't be painful. First thing - burn the accounts.
 
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I think it is the opposite. In Hebrews 11:1, faith is the hypostasis / substance / basis that substantiates hope. Faith is the evidence / proof / facts that support the theory / hope.

I stand corrected, thank you sir.
 
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ozso

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I have addressed these out-of-context proof texts many times before. Do you not understand what "God, Himself," or "Jesus, Himself says" means? Not, what a prophet or disciple wrote but something that starts with "And God, said..." or "And Jesus said...,"

That doesn't make any sense really because every "And God, said..." or "And Jesus said...," was written down by prophets and disciples. Is it if they wrote down "thus saith the Lord" it must be from God, but otherwise what they wrote down might just be stuff that they made up? This and the "pie in the sky" wishing you speak of, reminds me of what atheists say to reason that what Christians believe in is fiction and fantasy.
 
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Hmm

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Seems to me there's no room for 'hopeful' UR - you either put faith in it (to some degree) or you don't (ie you reject it). To claim hope and eschew faith in any subject is a kind of no-man's land of hypocritical fence-sitting, which might well earn the claimant a divine mouth-spew. Without at least a modicum of faith behind it, any hope is surely forlorn.

Well said. You can't hope for one thing and have faith in something else. The two are combined. Faith involves trust and trust involves risk taking which involves hope, and vice-versa.

Edited. "Involves" not "invoices". Pesky autocorrect.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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What a special guffaw. All I know about Kierkegaard is that he completely missed the point with his Akedah ruminations.

Are you trying to imply that Kierkegaard actually was a Pharisee of sorts? What is your point, however lately made?
 
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2PhiloVoid

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@Shrewd Manager
Are you trying to imply that Kierkegaard actually was a Pharisee of sorts? What is your point, however lately made?

If anything, I might find Kierkegaard was partially at at fault since it doesn't seem he took any hard stance against UR ...

And fortunately for me, it's only his treatment of Lessing's Ditch that really gets my attention, along with the fact that I agree with him that theology is difficult to really handle in any truly systematic way. The rest of what Kierkegaard has said is, I think, optional and not something I rely on.
 
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Fervent

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Are you trying to imply that Kierkegaard actually was a Pharisee of sorts? What is your point, however lately made?
It's kind of strange how "pharisee" has become a sort of catch-all insult when it was originally a rather benign term that simply described an eschatological position.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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It's kind of strange how "pharisee" has become a sort of catch-all insult when it was originally a rather benign term that simply described an eschatological position.

Agreed.
 
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rjs330

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Glad to!

GENESIS





18:18 all the nations of the earth will be blessed



28:14 all the families of the earth will be blessed





NUMBERS



16:22 the God of the spirits of all flesh





I KINGS



8:43 all the people of the earth will come to know and fear you, just as your own people Israel do.





PSALMS



46:10 "I will be honored by every nation. I will be honored throughout the world."



65:2 O you who hear prayer, to you shall all flesh come.



86:9 All the nations you made will come and bow before you, Lord; they will praise your holy name.



138:4 O Jehovah, all kings of earth confess Thee, When they have heard the sayings of Thy mouth.





ISAIAH



11:9 Nothing will hurt or destroy in all my holy mountain, for as the waters fill the sea, so the earth will be filled with people who know the LORD.



52:10 The LORD will lay bare his holy arm in the sight of all the nations, and all the ends of the earth will see the salvation of our God.



52:15 Kings shall shut their mouths at him: for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they understand.



61:11 or as the earth brings forth its bud, and as the garden causes the things that are sown in it to spring forth; so the Lord Yahweh will cause righteousness and praise to spring forth before all the nations.



65:1 I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, to a nation that was not called by my name.



66:18 it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory.



66:23 all flesh shall come to worship before me, declares the LORD.





LAMENTATIONS



3:31-32 For the Lord will not cast off for ever: but though he cause grief, yet will he have compassion according to the multitude of his mercies.



(NLT)- For no one is abandoned by the Lord forever. Though he brings grief, he also shows compassion because of the greatness of his unfailing love.





DANIEL



7:14 And to him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him; his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom one that shall not be destroyed.



7:27 ..the Most High. His kingdom will last forever, and all rulers will serve and obey him."





MICAH



4:1-5 ..he will teach us his ways,

and we will walk in his paths."

For the LORD's teaching will go out from Zion;

his word will go out from Jerusalem.

The LORD will mediate between peoples

and will settle disputes between strong nations far away.

They will hammer their swords into plowshares

and their spears into pruning hooks.

Nation will no longer fight against nation,

nor train for war anymore.

Everyone will live in peace and prosperity,

enjoying their own grapevines and fig trees,

for there will be nothing to fear.





HABAKKUK



2:14 For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea











MATTHEW



20:8-15 That evening he told the foreman to call the workers in and pay them, beginning with the last workers first. When those hired at five o'clock were paid, each received a full day's wage. When those hired first came to get their pay, they assumed they would receive more. But they, too, were paid a day's wage. When they received their pay, they protested to the owner, 'Those people worked only one hour, and yet you've paid them just as much as you paid us who worked all day in the scorching heat.'

"He answered one of them, 'Friend, I haven't been unfair! Didn't you agree to work all day for the usual wage? Take your money and go. I wanted to pay this last worker the same as you. Is it against the law for me to do what I want with my money? Should you be jealous because I am kind to others?'





LUKE



2:10 but the angel reassured them. "Don't be afraid!" he said. "I bring you good news that will bring great joy to all people.



2:14 Glory to God in the highest, And on earth peace, goodwill toward men!"



3:6 and all flesh shall see the salvation of God.'



9:56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them



19:10 For the Son of Man came to seek and save those who are lost."



20:38 For He is not the God of the dead but of the living, for all live to Him."





JOHN



1:29 "Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!



3:17 God sent his Son into the world not to judge the world, but to save the world through him.



4:42 Now we believe, not just because of what you told us, but because we have heard him ourselves. Now we know that he is indeed the Savior of the world."



6:37 those the Father has given me will come to me, and I will never reject them.



6:39 And this is the will of God, that I should not lose even one of all those he has given me, but that I should raise them up at the last day. *John 13:3 Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands



6:45 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. It is written in the Prophets: 'They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.



12:32 And when I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw (Greek, literal, DRAG) everyone to myself."



12:47 I will not judge those who hear me but don't obey me, for I have come to save the world and not to judge it.





ACTS



3:21 For he must remain in heaven until the time for the final restoration of all things, as God promised long ago through his holy prophets.



3:25-26 You are the children of those prophets, and you are included in the covenant God promised to your ancestors. For God said to Abraham, 'Through your descendants[a] all the families on earth will be blessed.'





ROMANS



8:20-22 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but (C)because of Him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.



9:16 So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.



11:15 For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?



11:26 and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written,

"THE DELIVERER WILL COME FROM ZION,

HE WILL REMOVE UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB."



11:32 For God has imprisoned everyone in disobedience so he could have mercy on everyone.



15:21 I have been following the plan spoken of in the Scriptures, where it says,

"Those who have never been told about him will see,

and those who have never heard of him will understand"





I CORINTHIANS



3:14,5 But if the work is burned up, the builder will suffer great loss. The builder will be saved, but like someone barely escaping through a wall of flames.

If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.



5:5 Then you must throw this man out and hand him over to Satan so that his sinful nature will be destroyed and he himself will be saved on the day the Lord returns.



15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto Him, then shall the Son Himself also be subject unto Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

15:5

1 Behold, I show you a mystery: We shall not all sleep; but we shall all be changed





II CORINTHIANS



5:18,19 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to Himself by Jesus Christ and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation,



to wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them, and hath committed unto us the Word of reconciliation.





GALATIONS



3:8 What's more, the Scriptures looked forward to this time when God would declare the Gentiles to be righteous because of their faith. God proclaimed this good news to Abraham long ago when he said, "All nations will be blessed through you."

In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace

which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight

He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him

with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him

also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,



4:13 This will continue until we all come to such unity in our faith and knowledge of God's Son that we will be mature in the Lord, measuring up to the full and complete standard of Christ.





PHILIPPIANS



2:10-11 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,

in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,

to the glory of God the Father.



COLOSSIANS



1:20 and through him God reconciled

everything to himself.

He made peace with everything in heaven and on earth

by means of Christ's blood on the cross.



I TIMOTHY



1:15 This is a trustworthy saying, and everyone should accept it: "Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners"—



2:4-6 who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time.



4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.





HEBREWS



2:9 Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.



2:17 so that he could be our merciful and faithful High Priest before God. Then he could offer a sacrifice that would take away the sins of the people.



8:11,12And they will not need to teach their neighbors,

nor will they need to teach their relatives,[d]

saying, 'You should know the LORD.'

For everyone, from the least to the greatest,

will know me already.

And I will forgive their wickedness,

and I will never again remember their sins



9:26 else must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once at the end of the ages hath he been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.



10:10 For God's will was for us to be made holy by the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ, once for all time.



10:17 then he adds, "I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more."





I PETER



3:18-20 because also Christ once for sin did suffer -- righteous for unrighteous -- that he might lead us to God, having been put to death indeed, in the flesh, and having been made alive in the spirit,

in which also to the spirits in prison having gone he did preach,

who sometime disbelieved, when once the long-suffering of God did wait, in days of Noah -- an ark being preparing -- in which few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water;



II PETER



3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. *(John 13:3)





I JOHN



2:2 He himself is the sacrifice that atones for our sins—and not only our sins but the sins of all the world.



3:5 And you know that Jesus came to take away our sins, and there is no sin in him.



4:10 This is love: not that we have loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the payment for our sins.



4:14 Furthermore, we have seen with our own eyes and now testify that the Father sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.





REVELATION



3:9 Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie—indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you.



5:13 And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying:



" Blessing and honor and glory and power

Be to Him who sits on the throne,

And to the Lamb, forever and ever!"



11:15 Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign to the ages of the ages!'





14:6 Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people—



15:4 Who will not fear you, Lord,

and glorify your name?

For you alone are holy.

All nations will come and worship before you,

for your righteous deeds have been revealed."



20:14 Then death and the grave were thrown into the lake of fire.



21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.



21:5 And the one sitting on the throne said, "Look, I am making everything new!" And then he said to me, "Write this down, for what I tell you is trustworthy and true."



22:2 On each side of the river grew a tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, with a fresh crop each month. The leaves were used for medicine to heal the nations.



22:3 No longer will there be a curse upon anything.



22:17 The Spirit and the bride say, "Come." Let anyone who hears this say, "Come." Let anyone who is thirsty come. Let anyone who desires drink freely from the water of life.

All wonderful verses. None of them teach universal salvation. Scriptural doctrine cannot be held to individual verses while ignoring other verses. Context and teaching is crucial.

Just the first verse alone is a great example. All the nations are blessed by the coming of Christ who is the redeemer. It does not say all the nations shall be saved from their sin.
 
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rjs330

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Therefore just as one man's trespass led to condemnation for all, so one man's act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all.
Romans 5:18

Wow, this just goes to show how bad this is. This verse is taken totally out of context to make sound like UR.

Reading chapter 4 and the rest of Chapter 5 and 6 gives context.
But the words, “it was credited to his account. . . ,” were not written for him only.They were written also for us, who will certainly have our account credited too, because we have trusted in him who raised Yeshua our Lord from the dead —Yeshua, who was delivered over to death because of our offences and raised to life in order to make us righteous. - Romans 4:23-25 Bible Gateway passage: Romans 4:23-25 - Complete Jewish Bible

So, since we have come to be considered righteous by God because of our trust, let us continue to have shalom with God through our Lord, Yeshua the Messiah.Also through him and on the ground of our trust, we have gained access to this grace in which we stand; so let us boast about the hope of experiencing God’s glory. - Romans 5:1-2 Bible Gateway passage: Romans 5:1-2 - Complete Jewish Bible

For what one earns from sin is death; but eternal life is what one receives as a free gift from God, in union with the Messiah Yeshua, our Lord. - Romans 6:23 Bible Gateway passage: Romans 6:23 - Complete Jewish Bible

It is the trust in God and union in Christ that provides salvation. We are made righteous because of our trust in him. It is not automatic for everyone.
 
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