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That is the stock answer. But it says nothing about salvation. Only that the creator is revealed in the creation. Is that understanding enough to save a person?Romans 1:18-23
That is the stock answer. But it says nothing about salvation. Only that the creator is revealed in the creation. Is that understanding enough to save a person?
My question below remains unanswered.
Saint Steven said: ↑
There are countless billions that have never so much as heard the name of Jesus Christ. What about them?
They have to because if a person tortured another person it would be a crime. It's a very odd conception of God to believe that we have a higher moral standard for ourselves than God does of Himself.
Is there such a thing as non-Christians who try to live righteous lives, and perhaps try to worship God with the wrong image? Do they deserve an infinity of torment?
But ECT advocates repeatedly said that "human" logic has no place in their thinking.
If that was true, why do we have equally intelligent and informed scholars still arguing about it some 2,000 years on?
The beginning of your quote above says, "God is not a monster ...."
The end of your quote says, ".... some will be lost."
You also say, ".... God is love." and ".... some will be saved ...."
If God is love, why are only "some" being saved?
The balance of "some", is most. So, the claim that ".... some will be lost." is in error.
If only "some" are saved, then MOST will be lost. Is that love? (or poor planning?)
Explain what happens to those you say will be lost, in the context of God NOT being a monster.
An interesting article here on Metropolitan Hilarion Alfeyev's recent speech at the Catholic Church's first World Congress in support Christian universalism.
The Congress Catches Fire!
To quote from the article:
"In an amazing, even surprising ecumenical moment in the Catholic Church's first World Congress on Divine Mercy, Russian Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev, bishop of Vienna and Austria as well as temporary administrator of the Diocese of Budapest and Hungary, took Divine Mercy to its logical conclusion. God is Love, all He created and sustains is always loved by Him. Even the creation that rejects Him continues in existence by His love. This unfathomable Divine Mercy can even make hell* "Gehenna," temporary, according to Bishop Hilarion, who spoke on Day 3 of the Congress (Friday, April 5) at St. John Lateran Basilica.
...
Saint Isaac believed that knowing the merciful God in this way would cause more love of God in people, not less."
One thing I've learned is that Orthodoxy is a lot closer to UR than Protestantism.
Yes, they took more of a lead from the universalist Gregory of Nyssa rather than Augustine, who couldn't speak Greek and actually said he despised the language, as the Western church did.
@HmmIs there such a thing as non-Christians who try to live righteous lives, and perhaps try to worship God with the wrong image? Do they deserve an infinity of torment?
But ECT advocates repeatedly said that "human" logic has no place in their thinking.
Does love move the Lover to dominate the will of the loved one? If we choose "not God" then what can our Lover do?
God offers His love to everyone but His gift must be freely accepted. Else His love remains unrequited and the unification willed by the Lover for the beloved does not happen.And either God gives this love and faith to everyone, to no-one or, Calvinist-like, gives it to a random few. I don't see any other option.
God offers His love to everyone but His gift must be freely accepted. Else His love remains unrequited and the unification willed by the Lover for the beloved does not happen.
And a lot of people who have been abused by Christian clergy and lay people. And people to whom the Gospel was misrepresented. And, and, and.There are countless billions that have never so much as heard the name of Jesus Christ. What about them?
So, countless billions who never heard the name of Jesus will burn forever with no hope of escape?Acts 4:12
If it's anything like going to most churches, I can see why.There are those who would not be happy in heaven...
You believe in eternal annihilation. I guess this is a step better than ECT.There is no such thing as infinity of torment as some teach.
I think so, too. But I also think that they will come to know Jesus and worship Him in the afterlife.There will be some who are saved that never heard of Jesus ... God looks at the heart. He is the only one who knows it. The standard is in everyone's heart whether they choose to attribute that standard to God or not. No one is righteous ... Jesus (who is God) will impute His righteousness as He chooses ... only God knows a person's heart.
@Hmm
The last sentence first. Where is it written that we, mere mortals, get to decide what is just, fair, reasonable, etc. for God?
By our human standards what God did in the time of Noah many folks would say was not just, fair, reasonable etc.
God destroyed 1000s of people; men, women, children, infants, young, old by drowning.
Was God just, fair, reasonable etc. when He destroyed 100s maybe 1,000s of people; men, women, children, infants, young, old by fire in the time of Lot?
Was God just, fair, reasonable when He commanded Israel to invade Canaan and kill every living thing, 100s maybe 1,000s of people; men, women, children, infants, young, old?
When Kim, Jong Il supreme leader of North Korea died citizens were required to mourn publicly and if some official decided someone was not showing enough grief that person was punished
In north Korea when anyone is sentenced for a crime they punish the criminal and three generations of his/her family.
And I think most reasonable, rational people consider that horrible but God did not just kill 3 generations but everyone.
That makes you an Annihilationist.The lost will be destroyed .... never to exist again.
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