Christian revelation in a totally non-Christian context

[Coralie]

I was brought up atheist, and taught that religion and general and Christianity in particular were a load of nonsense at best, dangerous at worst. I went to a secular university, etc. and was very proud to be an atheist. Then I had a crazy road-to-Damascus thing happen (though no visions etc., just some philosophical hurdles that I DID NOT want to jump over, but had to). In a funny way, you could blame it all on Camus. I'm sure he'd be horrified to see what happened to me after I read his stuff.

In terms of influence: my birth country is pretty Christian, but a totally different type of Christianity to what I am -- Western, Calvinist, whereas I'm Eastern Orthodox. I guess to an atheist that seems much of a muchness, but in reality the two are REALLY different to one another.

I also went to a couple of low-church Anglican junior schools, though I was excluded (my choice) from Christian religious ed, I still managed to memorise half the Shepherd's Psalm and the whole Lord's Prayer, just from hearing it every now and again in assembly.

So, yeah. I had some exposure to Xianity of a very different type to what I converted to. And I always thought Xtians were nutters deluxe. Then I became one. Imagine my surprise!

 

[ToHoldNothing]

Camus' absurdism is applicable to a Christian context as much as his own atheism of sorts, so it's not as if he would necessarily be surprised, though his argument for absurdism was based on a bit of a dichotomy between one who wants to have God give you purpose, which I would agree with him that it's problematic in terms of getting genuine meaning in life, and on the other hand the extreme of nihilism which would cause one to either kill oneself or behave in a hedonistic manner of sorts (like the Kurgan in Highlander, just living to threaten death, since he couldn't die). Absurdism was something of a middle ground therefore between affirming that life has purpose from God beyond human will and affirming that life has no purpose whatsoever. With absurdism, it is a sort of resignation that life may have no absolute meaning, but that we forge a meaning through our persistence in this life.

In hindsight, therefore, it seems problematic to give credit to Camus unless you take his idea of the Absurd derived from The Plague and The Myth of Sisyphus and then just ignore how he brings up the polarity that exists with people finding purpose and meaning in life between those that posit a transcendent reality , what he called "philosophical suicide" and those that would be willing to commit suicide because they think life has no purpose whatsoever. You would therefore seem to be more credited to Kierkegaard in your conversion, since your story communicates that you were eventually compelled to make a "leap of faith" as Kierkegaard terms it, not so much in the area of accepting the "Absurd" as Camus termed it. They are related in a sense though, yes, but it's kind of life comparing Kant and Hegel for one example I can think of off the top of my head.

 

[Coralie]

Camus' absurdism is applicable to a Christian context as much as his own atheism of sorts, so it's not as if he would necessarily be surprised, though his argument for absurdism was based on a bit of a dichotomy between one who wants to have God give you purpose, which I would agree with him that it's problematic in terms of getting genuine meaning in life, and on the other hand the extreme of nihilism which would cause one to either kill oneself or behave in a hedonistic manner of sorts (like the Kurgan in Highlander, just living to threaten death, since he couldn't die). Absurdism was something of a middle ground therefore between affirming that life has purpose from God beyond human will and affirming that life has no purpose whatsoever. With absurdism, it is a sort of resignation that life may have no absolute meaning, but that we forge a meaning through our persistence in this life.

In hindsight, therefore, it seems problematic to give credit to Camus unless you take his idea of the Absurd derived from The Plague and The Myth of Sisyphus and then just ignore how he brings up the polarity that exists with people finding purpose and meaning in life between those that posit a transcendent reality , what he called "philosophical suicide" and those that would be willing to commit suicide because they think life has no purpose whatsoever. You would therefore seem to be more credited to Kierkegaard in your conversion, since your story communicates that you were eventually compelled to make a "leap of faith" as Kierkegaard terms it, not so much in the area of accepting the "Absurd" as Camus termed it. They are related in a sense though, yes, but it's kind of life comparing Kant and Hegel for one example I can think of off the top of my head.

Dude, chill. It was a flippant statement. As I said, "in a funny way", I could blame it on Camus.

Reading his stuff started a chain reaction in my head, forced me to relook at things. But the chain reaction didn't end there obviously.

Re: the Absurd, there are many days that I'm like "obviously there's no God! Weeee! Somebody kill meee pleeez, life is meaninglesssss!", and to get through those days, I cling to the practices and history of the Church, especially the life of St Mary of Egypt, the saint whose name I took at baptism.

I am definitely one of those people who, faced with the idea that the universe may be nothing but absurd randomness, would rather die than carry on. I am the quintessential weak-minded religious person

Then on other days, I can "feel" the transcendence of the universe, and I know -- for a blissful moment -- that there is something beyond the physical, something I won't understand no matter how much I think about it. On those days, I can revel in God, and in the amazing mystery of the universe.

So my Christianity makes the good days better, and helps me survive the valley of the shadow of death. I am very blessed to have found my way here.

 

[ToHoldNothing]

Is it a good idea to cling to things? Meditate upon them, perhaps, but not latch onto them like they are the end in themselves.

Another bit of picking, but it seems to me you would mean the immanence of the universe moreso than the transcendence. If it was transcendence, it would be beyond general perception. We all perceive the universe, but perceiving it in its "thusness" would be immanence, moreso than transcendence, which would be experiencing "God" in its "thusness"

Your conversion at best is a nuanced Christian conversion moreso than a conversion where you were somehow outside of it. Like a Baptist becoming an Episcopalian, you go from one experiencing Christianity as primarily Protestant to understanding more ancient Orthodoxy.

 

[Coralie]

Thank you for defining me! I am so relieved to finally understand myself!

 

[Coralie]

On a different note, yes, I think in my case, clinging is a good idea. As I said, I'm pretty weak-minded. I've tried living in other ways -- and they all made me miserable.

 

[ToHoldNothing]

Not all misery is necessarily useless.

And I think you mean weak willed moreso than weak minded, though one could say they might go hand in hand

And I didn't claim to define you, but just the context you presented to the thread

 

[razeontherock]

I don't think she described a conversion from "one type of Christianity to another." I think she described a conversion from death to Life. And there are definitely times when just a moment of the mind of Christ can have that effect, even if it's just on one topic.

 

[ToHoldNothing]

I meant to say that Coralie had a skewed understanding of Xianity (abbreviated for brevity, not for "offense") and that it was expanded with an education on Eastern Orthodoxy. It was not as if Coralie said they were an atheist and then became Christian,but that may have been the case, I'm not denying that possibility

 

[Coralie]

I meant to say that Coralie had a skewed understanding of Xianity (abbreviated for brevity, not for "offense") and that it was expanded with an education on Eastern Orthodoxy. It was not as if Coralie said they were an atheist and then became Christian,but that may have been the case, I'm not denying that possibility

Ah, no wonder I was finding your replies so bizarre! You didn't read my post.

I WAS an atheist before I became a Xian -- I'm pretty sure I made that clear?? I was one of those dyed-in-the-wool, true-blue atheists, very proud to mock Xians or tear down their faith, particularly in academic debates.

I went to a couple of Anglican schools, but non-Xians could exclude themselves from religious education classes, which is what I did. I had no idea what Christianity taught until I was an adult, the most I could say would be 'there was a guy called Jesus, and he was crucified, and apparently that's supposed to be important". I converted at age 22.

 

[Criada]

This is a second hand story, so probably doesn't meet your criteria.
But I'll tell you anyway
A minister who I know and trust travels to many countries preaching the gospel. A couple of years ago he was in Cuba, where he heard of a church in a remote area where he had not come across Christians before. When he investigated, he found that it was led by a man who had never heard of Christianity, never read a Bible or heard the gospel. He had had a vision in which he encountered Jesus, and learned directly about salvation and the gospel, he had begun to preach this, and many had converted. They were a church of about 20 people, none of whom had ever seen a Bible or met another Christian, and yet their teaching was in line with scripture, and their experience of God was, and is, very real.