CHRISTIAN Response to Gothicism

[Pac Shady]

Hey all

I have a bit of a dilemma. I'm talking to a Christian friend of mine, and she has the urge to "go gothic". By "gothic" I mean the dark, depressing, obsessed with death and decay and suicide people who wear black clothes and paint themselves with black and white makeup and look like walking death. Now, surprisingly so many people think that this kind of lifestyle is completely compatable with Christianity, but I would think it's about as compatable as water and oil. How can one claim to be a Christian and be obsessed with death and suicide and live in total darkness? Isn't that completely the OPPOSITE to what Christ is about?

Anyway, can anyone give me some advice on what to do and say, any Scriptures I could use to give her and warn her away from this stuff? Sometimes I feel like I'm hitting my head against a brick wall and getting nowhere with her. Christ, grant me peace!

God Bless

'Shady

 

[nephilimiyr]

Hey all

I have a bit of a dilemma. I'm talking to a Christian friend of mine, and she has the urge to "go gothic". By "gothic" I mean the dark, depressing, obsessed with death and decay and suicide people who wear black clothes and paint themselves with black and white makeup and look like walking death. Now, surprisingly so many people think that this kind of lifestyle is completely compatable with Christianity, but I would think it's about as compatable as water and oil. How can one claim to be a Christian and be obsessed with death and suicide and live in total darkness? Isn't that completely the OPPOSITE to what Christ is about?

Anyway, can anyone give me some advice on what to do and say, any Scriptures I could use to give her and warn her away from this stuff? Sometimes I feel like I'm hitting my head against a brick wall and getting nowhere with her. Christ, grant me peace!

God Bless

'Shady

How about when Jesus said that one can't serve to masters? Sounds like she is trying to.

 

[PaladinValer]

How stereotypical...

 

[Defcon]

How about the fruits of the Spirit for one - Galatians 5:19-23 "The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law."

Also 2 Corinthians 6:14 - "Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?"

There are just tons of passages dealing with being in the light as opposed to darkness. Many of these are talking of course about sin or being under the power of Satan. I believe these apply because I haven't heard any case at all that Gothics are worshipping Christ by their actions. It seems evident to me that there is nothing Christ-like from that behavior. If you would like me to post those verses, let me know.

 

[Iollain]

How can someone just all the sudden decide to be like this:

dark, depressing, obsessed with death and decay and suicide people who wear black clothes and paint themselves with black and white makeup and look like walking death

That just makes no sense to me at all.

 

[Alpine]

If she has a urge to dress dark I don't see that as a big deal as it's more or less just a "style". But if she does the ther goth type things there might be reason for concern. The clothes itself isn't a big deal.

 

[Iollain]

I think they are a big deal cause the person is setting themselves up to be a target for bullying. But then again a bully will find someone to pick on no matter what.

 

[Defcon]

If she has a urge to dress dark I don't see that as a big deal as it's more or less just a "style". But if she does the ther goth type things there might be reason for concern. The clothes itself isn't a big deal.

Pac Shady said she has the urge to "go gothic". Most people who want to dress in black just dress in black (without white paint on their skin). I think anything beyond that -such as using the term "gothic"- represents a little bit more than just a style.

 

[Pac Shady]

How can someone just all the sudden decide to be like this:

dark, depressing, obsessed with death and decay and suicide people who wear black clothes and paint themselves with black and white makeup and look like walking death

That just makes no sense to me at all.

OK, bad wording. She is currently a depressed person, who has temptations and images in her mind all the time regarding suicide, being alone, death, etc. She wants to completely delve into the whole goth subculture, so that the rest match her depression and all the rest that she instead could be living in Christ who is Light and not darkness as gothicism preaches.

'Shady

 

[Pac Shady]

Pac Shady said she has the urge to "go gothic". Most people who want to dress in black just dress in black (without white paint on their skin). I think anything beyond that -such as using the term "gothic"- represents a little bit more than just a style.

Yes, that's what I mean. Black clothes in themself, not a problem. Black clothes, along with all the rest of it, adding to her already depressing and suicidal/death orientated mentality, that is something altogether different. I see nothing remotely Christian in such a lifestyle, and yet it's so sad that I see so many people preaching that Christianity and gothicism are perfectly compatable, when they are almost complete opposites!

'Shady

 

[cierra]

I understand what you're going through, my brother is the same way. It started out with him dressing all in black. Then he made friends who liked to dress in black. He would just say he just wanted to be "different" by dressing this way. He still came to church every Sunday and went to youth retreats. Those friends he made is what drove him to become what he is now I think. One of them goes to a "dark church" I think my brother called it. They worship Satan. Thank God my brother doesn't go there, but those kind of friends influenced him to become atheist. I try to talk to him about it but he wants nothing to do with what I say. Talk to your friend before it gets to this point! I will pray for your friend, please pray for my brother too.

 

[Alpine]

It sounds to me like she has other issues then just the goth thing. Problems with depression and other problems.

 

[BarbB]

OK, bad wording. She is currently a depressed person, who has temptations and images in her mind all the time regarding suicide, being alone, death, etc. She wants to completely delve into the whole goth subculture, so that the rest match her depression and all the rest that she instead could be living in Christ who is Light and not darkness as gothicism preaches.

'Shady

It sounds as though she's the object of a spiritual attack. I would encourage her to get her depression treated. The desire to go Goth may go away then.

 

[holo]

Jesus was with me through all the darkness, depression, addiction, suicide attempts, the self harming etc. I never dressed like a goth, but I felt like one. And despite my newfound freedom and joy, I'm still melancholic, I still love dark music, and I'm still fascinated by death and insanity.

I think people should feel "allowed" to go into these things. I don't think that's a problem as much as the feeling that they can't bring Jesus along into it. I mean, a gothic person or someone with tendencies and emotions like mine, will find MUCH more meaning in the anxiety Jesus went through in Gethsemane, for example.

Often times if you try to "rescue" people from this kind of thing (which is often just a phase anyway), you only end up alienating them and making them feel even worse. Let people search out the darkness, let them express their pain and depression, only send Jesus along with them. Our sense of style and good taste may be offended, but Jesus won't. Jesus is perfect for goths.

 

[abbygirlforever]

I think holo makes a good point. I have strugged with depression, suicidal thoughts, SI, etc. since I was 15. I never did become gothic, but I loved the style (to a point). I dunno, I think when a person is feeling like this the dark clothes and such is almost a comfort.

If you know somebody who is starting to act gothic, it's probably a good idea to sit down with her (or him) and have a heart-to-heart conversation. Don't push or you'll drive her away, but let her know you care about her and are there if she ever needs to talk. I wish somebody had done that for me. Usually such drastic outward changes reflect some sort of inner turmoil.

Christians should be allowed to think about these things without the fear of condemnation and with the assurance that they will come out the other side someday. Judging somebody in this situation only makes it worse. I don't think it's healthy to constantly be thinking about darkness/death/suicide/etc., but it happens. It has to be worked out inside before the outside will change.

 

[NPH]

Hey all

I have a bit of a dilemma. I'm talking to a Christian friend of mine, and she has the urge to "go gothic". By "gothic" I mean the dark, depressing, obsessed with death and decay and suicide people who wear black clothes and paint themselves with black and white makeup and look like walking death. Now, surprisingly so many people think that this kind of lifestyle is completely compatable with Christianity, but I would think it's about as compatable as water and oil. How can one claim to be a Christian and be obsessed with death and suicide and live in total darkness? Isn't that completely the OPPOSITE to what Christ is about?

Anyway, can anyone give me some advice on what to do and say, any Scriptures I could use to give her and warn her away from this stuff? Sometimes I feel like I'm hitting my head against a brick wall and getting nowhere with her. Christ, grant me peace!

God Bless

'Shady

The first bit of advice I would give you is to take the time yourself to go out and actually learn a bit about the Goth subculture before you go labelling and stereotyping it.

Wearing dark clothing (particularly the very stylistic fashions many of us were) is just a fashion choice that reflects our tastes. No different than those that dress Preppy or Gangsta or whatever. To you it might look silly but it looks just fine to us (and conversely, you probably look quite silly to us ).

Obsession with death? LOL, a charge that could be squarely levelled against ALL of Christianity! What's one of the first things you usually hear someone say when evangelizing? "Do you know that Jesus died for your sins?". We talk about being 'dead in Christ', 'slain in the spirit', 'martyred for Christ' and so on. Death is such an integral part of Christianity that it's nearly amusing to hear one of us call someone else 'obsessed with death'.

Obsessed with suicide? Don't have to be Goth to be that. People from every single walk of life can be obsessed with suicide. And again, you are stereotyping. Most Goths are in fact not obsessed with or even considering suicide. It's just that those that are get more attention usually.

Obsessed with decay? There is actually a quite interesting aesthetic beauty in decay. Ever felt a sense of awe looking at the Grand Canyon? That's decay, right there And as always, not all or even most goths are necessarily interested or have an appreciation for it.

Yes, it is entirely possible to be Goth and Christian. The problem is, that while you might understand what 'Christian' is you have nothing more than an uninformed stereotypical view of what 'Goth' is.

What your friend needs is your love and friendship ... not judgement. Many people 'go goth' because they are feeling quite depressed at that time, many stay goth after the depression is gone because they've found their 'niche' in life. If your friend is depressed at this point in life they need your support, not condemnation of their fashion sense.

 

[CaDan]

Well, you wonder why I always dress in black,
Why you never see bright colors on my back,
And why does my appearance seem to have a somber tone.
Well, there's a reason for the things that I have on.

I wear the black for the poor and the beaten down,
Livin' in the hopeless, hungry side of town,
I wear it for the prisoner who has long paid for his crime,
But is there because he's a victim of the times.

I wear the black for those who never read,
Or listened to the words that Jesus said,
About the road to happiness through love and charity,
Why, you'd think He's talking straight to you and me.

Well, we're doin' mighty fine, I do suppose,
In our streak of lightnin' cars and fancy clothes,
But just so we're reminded of the ones who are held back,
Up front there ought 'a be a Man In Black.

I wear it for the sick and lonely old,
For the reckless ones whose bad trip left them cold,
I wear the black in mournin' for the lives that could have been,
Each week we lose a hundred fine young men.

And, I wear it for the thousands who have died,
Believen' that the Lord was on their side,
I wear it for another hundred thousand who have died,
Believen' that we all were on their side.

Well, there's things that never will be right I know,
And things need changin' everywhere you go,
But 'til we start to make a move to make a few things right,
You'll never see me wear a suit of white.

Ah, I'd love to wear a rainbow every day,
And tell the world that everything's OK,
But I'll try to carry off a little darkness on my back,
'Till things are brighter, I'm the Man In Black

 

[I <3 Abraham]

Part of the reason you may feel like you're hitting your head against a brick wall is because your friend probably feels like you're trying to headbutt her!

Like many people have said, Goths are not one thing, except for a way of dressing that unites them all. Some are drug abusers, some are suicidal, some are musicians, some just have dark hair and light complexions and so look frieking GREAT dressing like a goth. There are drug abusers and suicidal folks from every walk of life. I urge you to make your friend feel accepted and loved by you, demonstrate what Christ is , instead of judging her and driving her further away.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Part of the reason you may feel like you're hitting your head against a brick wall is because your friend probably feels like you're trying to headbutt her!

Like many people have said, Goths are not one thing, except for a way of dressing that unites them all. Some are drug abusers, some are suicidal, some are musicians, some just have dark hair and light complexions and so look frieking GREAT dressing like a goth. There are drug abusers and suicidal folks from every walk of life. I urge you to make your friend feel accepted and loved by you, demonstrate what Christ is , instead of judging her and driving her further away.

I agree with you. In the past 6 months, I have had the opportunity to get to know some Goths and I was rather surprized. I expected attitude - received politeness. I expected anger and rants - and have had intelligent, thoughtful conversations. While there are some who are scary in attitude and manner, most that I have met are not. They just like the Goth style because it is different (didn't the hippies say that?) and because they felt they never fit in with the more acceptable crowd. They were too fat, too geek, not handsome enough, not pretty enough, or they just didn't buy into phoniness that can be so prevalent.

And then I found out their day jobs - bankers, couriers, lab techs....professionals and laborers. That sort of blew my first impression of Goths.

 

[Defcon]

Before we get all warm and cuddly with all Gothics - I think we owe Pac Shady a little bit more respect with his decsription of his friend. Again, this obviously is not a 'style' of clothing his friend is going to, but state of depression focusing on death and suicide. Let's look at the situation that Pac Shady has presented - is this sort of lifestyle change something that Christ condones according to Scripture? For those who want to prevent a generalized stereotype - mission accomplished. However, let's not pretend Christ teaches a life of darkness and depression in an effort to be tolerant.