CHRISTIAN Response to Gothicism

[Rev. Smith]

Hey all

I have a bit of a dilemma. I'm talking to a Christian friend of mine, and she has the urge to "go gothic". By "gothic" I mean the dark, depressing, obsessed with death and decay and suicide people who wear black clothes and paint themselves with black and white makeup and look like walking death. Now, surprisingly so many people think that this kind of lifestyle is completely compatable with Christianity, but I would think it's about as compatable as water and oil. How can one claim to be a Christian and be obsessed with death and suicide and live in total darkness? Isn't that completely the OPPOSITE to what Christ is about?

Anyway, can anyone give me some advice on what to do and say, any Scriptures I could use to give her and warn her away from this stuff? Sometimes I feel like I'm hitting my head against a brick wall and getting nowhere with her. Christ, grant me peace!

God Bless

'Shady

Shady, there is nothing un-Christian per se about being goth (or punk, or preppie or hip-hop). If she likes the clths and the jejun attitude the goths adopt, who cares? If she finds horror movies and lycanthropy stories fun and interesting - so what? (I do!)

For most Goths the interest in death and horror movies and so on is an afectation, a playing out of ideas that have appeal and a search for an identity (it has been the hallmark of youth for centuries to seek to establish our individuality by selecting a group, makes sense we humans were made by Him to be social creatures).

If she is really getting depressed and wants to act it out, point her to help. Again this is not an issue of religion or faith, it is a symptom of illness that can be resolved with prayer, counseling and support.

My only concern over Goth role playing is the potential to become enamoured of Wicca, which from everyone I talked to (years ago when Goth was getting under way) almost never happens at more then an dabbling level.

If you love her, stay involved, be watchful and if real trouble is brewing act, and ask her Pastor to help. If it is nothing more that fashion and an affected air, let her have fun with it.

If you want to talk more, drop me a PM and I'll give you my info.

Yours in Christ,
Mark+

 

[NPH]

Before we get all warm and cuddly with all Gothics - I think we owe Pac Shady a little bit more respect with his decsription of his friend. Again, this obviously is not a 'style' of clothing his friend is going to, but state of depression focusing on death and suicide. Let's look at the situation that Pac Shady has presented - is this sort of lifestyle change something that Christ condones according to Scripture? For those who want to prevent a generalized stereotype - mission accomplished. However, let's not pretend Christ teaches a life of darkness and depression in an effort to be tolerant.

True, but the OP focused more on the fact that Shady's friend is considering a 'Goth' style rather than focusing on the mental state of that friend.

If the outward change in appearance is a result of an inward struggle then it is the inward struggle that must be dealt with. Even if he somehow talked his friend into not adopting a Goth style, the underlying problem would still exist.

But the OP never says that his friend is experiencing any form of mental anguish, only that he feels that the Goth culture is a symptom of that. If Shady's friend is indeed experiencing problems with depression then that is what needs to be addressed. You say this is obviously not a style of clothing his friend is going into, but the OP never addresses anything more than that very thing As near as I can tell from what Shady said it is he that has a problem with her choice, not that she herself is undergoing any mental or emotional distress. And so you find the many posts here in this thread such as mine to try and help him understand that the Goth culture is not necessarily what he or the media supposes it to be.

 

[Defcon]

True, but the OP focused more on the fact that Shady's friend is considering a 'Goth' style rather than focusing on the mental state of that friend.

If the outward change in appearance is a result of an inward struggle then it is the inward struggle that must be dealt with. Even if he somehow talked his friend into not adopting a Goth style, the underlying problem would still exist.

But the OP never says that his friend is experiencing any form of mental anguish, only that he feels that the Goth culture is a symptom of that. If Shady's friend is indeed experiencing problems with depression then that is what needs to be addressed. You say this is obviously not a style of clothing his friend is going into, but the OP never addresses anything more than that very thing As near as I can tell from what Shady said it is he that has a problem with her choice, not that she herself is undergoing any mental or emotional distress. And so you find the many posts here in this thread such as mine to try and help him understand that the Goth culture is not necessarily what he or the media supposes it to be.

Fair enough ...Shady -do you have any comments or further info to help direct this discussion?

 

[Pac Shady]

She wants to become Gothic because of her current mental and emotional state of mind, and the Gothic style matches it and advertises it. Instead, I'm trying to help bring her OUT of that mental and emotional state of mind, and help her bring her mind closer to Christ instead of these things. Quite the opposite to delving and enveloping oneself in it.

'Shady

 

[NPH]

She wants to become Gothic because of her current mental and emotional state of mind, and the Gothic style matches it and advertises it. Instead, I'm trying to help bring her OUT of that mental and emotional state of mind, and help her bring her mind closer to Christ instead of these things. Quite the opposite to delving and enveloping oneself in it.

'Shady

Ah, thanks Shady. That sheds a bit more light on it there

In that case you might want to actually point her to this very thread. I've been Goth since my teens and she really needs to understand that it's more an aesthetic choice than a haven for depression. While it may seem that Goths are mopey or depressed (and some are!) the greatest majority are more in it for a fashion/aethetic sense.

Make it clear to her that the love of Christ will be of far more help to her in a troubled time than anything else, and that if she wants to pursue the Goth culture it should be more because it interests her than because she feels depressed.

Having said that, Goth can be comforting to those who are depressed because Goths tend to be far more accepting and understanding than most people (yes, even Christians many times). If she is feeling like an outsider or unwanted by her current crowd she would likely find companionship with a group of Goth friends. But in no way should she allow that to replace Jesus in her life!

If it's really not a choice she is making because she actually enjoys the Goth 'look', then it will probably just end up being a phase she goes through. Be there for her and be a spiritual help for her during a difficult time, but most of all don't shun her for trying out 'Gothiness' and don't ridicule or belittle it either! That would only serve to push her further away and that's almost certainly not what she needs.

While some may find it strange to be Christian and Goth, the two complement each other quite well really As with nearly everything in life, it all depends on the individual.

p.s. - Help her pick a nice pair of boots! Doc Martens or New Rock are the best (though very expensive). It'll show her that you care and you just gotta have good boots or they take away your 'Goth card'

 

[I <3 Abraham]

Ah, thanks Shady. That sheds a bit more light on it there

In that case you might want to actually point her to this very thread. I've been Goth since my teens and she really needs to understand that it's more an aesthetic choice than a haven for depression. While it may seem that Goths are mopey or depressed (and some are!) the greatest majority are more in it for a fashion/aethetic sense.

Make it clear to her that the love of Christ will be of far more help to her in a troubled time than anything else, and that if she wants to pursue the Goth culture it should be more because it interests her than because she feels depressed.

Having said that, Goth can be comforting to those who are depressed because Goths tend to be far more accepting and understanding than most people (yes, even Christians many times). If she is feeling like an outsider or unwanted by her current crowd she would likely find companionship with a group of Goth friends. But in no way should she allow that to replace Jesus in her life!

If it's really not a choice she is making because she actually enjoys the Goth 'look', then it will probably just end up being a phase she goes through. Be there for her and be a spiritual help for her during a difficult time, but most of all don't shun her for trying out 'Gothiness' and don't ridicule or belittle it either! That would only serve to push her further away and that's almost certainly not what she needs.

While some may find it strange to be Christian and Goth, the two complement each other quite well really As with nearly everything in life, it all depends on the individual.

p.s. - Help her pick a nice pair of boots! Doc Martens or New Rock are the best (though very expensive). It'll show her that you care and you just gotta have good boots or they take away your 'Goth card'

And tell her to be one of the "look at my giant crucifix" goth's those chicks are cool. Does nybody else notice an oddly large amount of crosses and stuff in goth fashion?

Edit:after all, at what other point in her life will she be able to sport a 4" tall crucifix and look cool doing it?

 

[GutterRat]

There is a chruch in IL dedicated to Goth. It's called The First Church of the Living Dead. They have a great mission and are doing great things. Their entire point is to reach out to the Goth community and bring them closer to Christ.

 

[Robbie_James_Francis]

It seems to me that the issue lies more with her depression at the moment than with any subcultures or fashion styles she may wish to join. If she has clinical depression then there is little that you can do but support her and encourage her to seek professional help.

There are many things assosicated with goths, but that does not mean that all goths participate in them, or that they are inherent in goth culture. Not all goths self-harm. Not all are depressed. There is nothing wrong with sobriety, wearing black, listening to heavy music...and even a healthy acceptance and interest in death and the afterlife.

It seems to me that if she brings her depression with her into becoming a goth, then that is the problem. It is not to do with being a goth itself, but with her individual problems.

Pax tecum,
Rob

 

[abbygirlforever]

p.s. - Help her pick a nice pair of boots! Doc Martens or New Rock are the best (though very expensive). It'll show her that you care and you just gotta have good boots or they take away your 'Goth card' .

That is probably the most amusing thing I have heard all day! Doc Martens.... lol!