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bèlla

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Just something I'm struggling with because I have always wanted to own a.restaurant/bar. But is getting criticized because it's not "Christian" to sell alcohol.

Using their logic it would preclude ownership of grocers because many are overweight and obese. You couldn’t create an app because many struggle with technology addiction.

See the problem? God calls some to minister to those with behavioral challenges and others to demonstrate a Christian ethos in the marketplace.

Startup costs for restaurants are high and future shutdowns are a possibility. I would start a food blog, monetize it, and use the resources to fund the restaurant. We should have a handle on things and you’re less likely to be caught in a lurch.

It would give you an opportunity to build name recognition, develop recipes, have a secondary income and a book deal. If you build a large following that’s fairly standard.

~bella
 
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Desk trauma

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I don't believe any of us are supposed to live the way we are living at all.we aren't supposed to have a grocery store to buy our food, we are suppose to hunt, raise, and hunt we are supposed to grow our gardens, personally, my journey has led me to homestead. And it couldn't be a better time!! Gunk about it the way it was that's how it was intended the government is taking over as Christians we just need to make better decisions and come together

*waves magic wand* there, you have your way. Modern agriculture and food distribution go away, every one becomes a subsistence farmer. What becomes of the billions of people who can no longer get food due to our population being well above the carrying capacity of that mode of food production?
 
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keith99

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The Bible doesn't speak against snorting cocaine or smoking meth, either. Clearly, we need some other standard of ethics beyond what the Bible doesn't prohibit.

True, but it does speak directly to wine. From Jesus himself turning water into wine that was consumed at a wedding where the guests had had enough wine that they could not tell good wine from not so good wine to the advice to Timothy to take a little wine for his stomachs sake.

So it seems Jesus himself was fine with drinking at least to the border of excess at a celebration as OK.
 
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keith99

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*waves magic wand* there, you have your way. Modern agriculture and food distribution go away, every one becomes a subsistence farmer. What becomes of the billions of people who can no longer get food due to our population being well above the carrying capacity of that mode of food production?

Given modern water and sewage systems I just might survive. Especially if I move to mom's house.

But it would be a full time job raising food. I assume it would be the same for anyone employed by The Department of Water and Power. So a few months to no water and having to dig latirnes.

I fugure over 90% of humanity dead and rotting for lack of burial. Perhaps far more when disease hits. And disease will hit, even in places that at first glance look like they are doing well(ish) at subsistence farming.

Do remember that most farmers use hybrid seed. Even those who know how to harvest seed for next year will not have the means to continue the hybridization processes. So very soon a production drop of at least 10%. That in a good year. In a bad year, one where plant disease strikes and it turns out the vast majority of the crop is not resistent a loss of well over 50% and perhaps approaching 100% is likely.
 
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CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN

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I don't believe any of us are supposed to live the way we are living at all.we aren't supposed to have a grocery store to buy our food, we are suppose to hunt, raise, and hunt we are supposed to grow our gardens, personally, my journey has led me to homestead. And it couldn't be a better time!! Gunk about it the way it was that's how it was intended the government is taking over as Christians we just need to make better decisions and come together
You have only 3 post. And you bring a 4 year old thread, back from the dead. That's on very heavy used forum sections. That would be very hard to find. Congrats I guess. Good luck on your views. Most Christians I know wouldn't live like you. I do like to garden. I don't know any Christians that do. It's more of a liberal thing. Where I live.
 
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Nithavela

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*waves magic wand* there, you have your way. Modern agriculture and food distribution go away, every one becomes a subsistence farmer. What becomes of the billions of people who can no longer get food due to our population being well above the carrying capacity of that mode of food production?
They start killing each other for farmable land! Awesome!
 
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cow451

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Hey, now. Not all evangelicals are teetotalers. Teetotaling is more of a strict Baptist/Pentecostal type of belief. Evangelicals include these people, but also include those who are sick of that man-made restriction and prefer to go by what God gave us in Scripture - that drunkenness is bad but drinking is not. This may be more common in non-denominational churches, and/or states that are big on craft beer. (Which happens to describe my church and my state.)
How do you keep a Baptist from drinking all your beer on a fishing trip? Invite two of them.
 
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EmethAlethia

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Ok so what's your opinion on this. If a Christian can't own a restaurant/bar. Due to the fact that there are ppl struggling with being alcoholics ect..... Then why is it Right for a Christian to own a restaurant of ANY sort? because there are many ppl struggling with being obese....

Yes, if serving alcohol because alcoholics exist is a sin, then ever serving anyone ever any food at all could lead to obesity, so stop feeding anyone any food and the problem goes away. And yes, this is a VALID point. Never drink alcohol and you never have the chance of becoming an alcoholic. Never eat and you will never be obese. Facts. But here's the problem. There is no command NOT TO DRINK WINE. That is teaching as a precept the traditions of men.

Using logic and reason, why did the chief steward make this comment as a result of Jesus actions:

"Joh 2:9 When the headwaiter tasted the water which had become wine, and did not know where it came from (but the servants who had drawn the water knew), the headwaiter *called the bridegroom, 10 and *said to him, "Every man serves the good wine first, and when the people have drunk freely, then he serves the poorer wine; but you have kept the good wine until now."

Logic, reason, rational thought. Why do you serve the best wine first and the poorer quality later on? After the first bottle or two at the party, who the heck is going to notice, right? Can Christians attend parties where alcohol is served? Again, where is the commandment not to ever drink wine. Now let's look at another situation. Some people showed up to the Lord's supper early and they ate all the food and drank all the wine... What type of grape juice was served at those early communion services?

1Co 11:20 Therefore when you meet together, it is not to eat the Lord's Supper, 21 for in your eating each one takes his own supper first; and one is hungry and another is drunk. 22 What! Do you not have houses in which to eat and drink? Or do you despise the church of God and shame those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you? In this I will not praise you.

Again, logic, reason, rational thought. Did everyone eat BEFORE they showed up to the Lord's Supper? Did everyone drink all the wine BEFORE they showed up at the Lord's Supper? No, the eating and drinking happened AT the Lord's Supper. And the result, some went hungry and others were drunk ... on grape juice. Now here's the problem, there is some alcohol content in grape juice. It is minimal, but if you drank about 6 gallons of it in an hour, drunkenness is possible. Of course your stomach would burst before that, but heck miracles happen, right?

I talked with a pastor who was vehemently against all forms of alcohol. I asked him what would happen if I made a proclamation that he was a drunkard to all the people in his congregation. He said, "They would think you a fool, or that you were crazy or both." I said "Why, is that?". He said because everyone who knows me or sees me knows that I will never ever touch a drop of alcohol knowingly in my entire life. I believe it to be a very serious sin." I replied, kind of like accusing Jesus of being a drunkard, right?". He said, "Exactly.". I then brought up this passage.

Mat 11:18 "For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon!'

John the Baptist took a Nazarite vow. He never drank wine. Did the Pharisees accuse him of drunkenness? No, right? Everyone who knew anything about John, just like everyone who knows anything at all about you, would laugh their fool heads off and ignore you, right?

Same with "normal" food, in the eating and drinking department John the Baptist was on the very fringe. John was ... well by common standards of the day ... a little weird. Camels hair cloak, locusts and honey, never touching a drop of wine as most people of the day did ... yep ... off the deep end. So the Pharisees used what John did against him. Thus the claims of him having a demon... thinking men of the day would have given it some thought, some credence. But the discussion didn't end there. Jesus continued ...

Mat 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!'


Now we discussed how an accusation like me calling you a drunkard is absolutely laughable. Yet the statement about John having a demon because of what he did and didn't do is ... well it's plausible. It's a possibility. Maybe a demon possessed man would do such things, right?

But look at what Jesus says, "You know I have never touched a drop of wine in my life. You know that I have never eaten large amounts of food ever. You are a joke, and or you are fools. Never happened, never will." But then, that's not what it says ... "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard,

That's the thing. From the context, Jesus is stating that He ate and drank whatever He wanted in whatever amounts He chose to do so, but was without sin. i.e. He was not a glutton, nor was He ever drunk. Jesus says that is HIS standard. And the religious leaders and experts believed it was far more than He should have consumed. Thus ... there is credence, based on Jesus own testimony, that, by the standards of the experts, Jesus was a drunkard and a glutton. And no, Jesus doesn't say, "I used the power of the Holy Spirit to change the wine I was drinking into grape juice.

"Yet wisdom is vindicated by her deeds."

Unfortunately, by teaching as precepts the doctrines of men, Jesus was just as unqualified to join the ranks of the religious leaders and teachers of His day as He would be in many of our churches today. All I need to say is, "If I want a glass of wine or beer, or a glass with some vodka and lime at the end of a hard day, and sometimes 2 drinks, but I am never drunk.", and 95% of all ministry opportunities dry up.

But wasn't Jesus concerned about the alcoholics? Wasn't Jesus concerned about His testimony? Jesus was not a self-righteous Pharisee trying to make the scriptures support what He wanted to believe. Jesus had the truth, was the truth, taught the truth, Jesus lived the truth. Jesus teaching ... drink what you want but don't be drunk. Eat what you want but don't be a glutton. Why? Do not be drunk with wine! Do not be a glutton. Do not be a Pharisee who teaches as doctrines the precepts of men nullifying the meaning of the word of God to hold fast to your traditions.

This said, "Whatever is not from faith is sin." If you haven't examined all of the passages that "might" apply to the topic, rightly dividing them so that they all make sense without adding meaning that isn't there, subtracting meaning that is there, or distorting the meaning to try and force it to conform to what you want to believe "as" truth, then do so. I have seen some marvelous feats of hermeneutical contortionism over the years to contradict what the scriptures say/teach to hold fast to many different things. Those that love truth will do what it takes to get truth. Those who love "what they want to believe" "as" truth, always get what they need to hold fast to their beliefs as well.

2Th 2:10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness. 13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

Do I have a problem with opening a restaurant with a bar? Nope. Do I have a problem with hard liquor being served? Nope. Why? God has no problem with it. Only Pharisees have an issue with it, both in Jesus day, and now. And yes, they will accuse you of all kinds of things ... yet wisdom is vindicated by her deeds.
 
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EmethAlethia

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Just something I'm struggling with because I have always wanted to own a.restaurant/bar. But is getting criticized because it's not "Christian" to sell alcohol.

Jesus was frowned upon for not restricting His consumption of alcohol or food in any way except for not being a drunkard or a glutton. Understand that the self-righteous are going to find a reason to condemn the righteous no matter what choices they make. Mat. 11:18-19

If you are unwilling to stand up and do what God says is ok for you to do, then ... well you aren't Christ like. He came eating and drinking without restriction. He was the best vintner of His day according to the experts who served wine, His was far superior to the best of the rest. Was He concerned about the opinions of the self-righteous religious leaders who were bad mouthing Him? Nope. He admitted that He came freely eating and drinking. Their observations were correct, just not their conclusions.
 
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durangodawood

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If you want a religion that forbids alcohol, I do not recommend Christianity, as its namesake made wine for a wedding. (And if you think a Jewish wedding provided 'non-alcoholic wine' then youre just being silly.)
 
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