Christian Only

[Roni999]

It's not as glamorous as you might think. You can support Israel just as easy from America - in fact better. Buy Israeli products either online or at your local stores. Living in Israel is expensive and hard. How do you mean "living a Biblical lifestyle?"

I was thinking like observing Sabbath and the Festivals. Maybe I am just dreaming it would be better there. It is a good dream anyway.
Next Year in Jerusalem!!
What did you think I meant when I said "Living a Biblical Lifestyle?" I am just curious.

 

[anisavta]

I will grant you the fact that Shabbat in Israel is good. Everything does shut down, but most of the Messianic congregations are run pretty much like your typical church here in the US. Tel Aviv on erev shabbat is pretty wild. More noise, more parties, more cars out and about.
Festivals are fun. Lots of celebration - especially in Jerusalem. And it's a breath of fresh air to not have to question how food is processed or what you're eating.
When I think of living a biblical lifestyle, I think of religious observance, or living like Yeshua and the talmidim lived. Israel is very modern and secular.

 

[Roni999]

I will grant you the fact that Shabbat in Israel is good. Everything does shut down, but most of the Messianic congregations are run pretty much like your typical church here in the US. Tel Aviv on erev shabbat is pretty wild. More noise, more parties, more cars out and about.
Festivals are fun. Lots of celebration - especially in Jerusalem. And it's a breath of fresh air to not have to question how food is processed or what you're eating.
When I think of living a biblical lifestyle, I think of religious observance, or living like Yeshua and the talmidim lived. Israel is very modern and secular.

Yeah, that is what I am talking about, I know the Messianic's are not going to be like the Orthodox and walk to Shul. And I know that Israel is more secular as a whole but like you pointed out. Everything shuts down on Sabbath and you know your food is Kosher for the most part I can assume there are those that don't keep it even in Israel, I would avoid those places. So it is the good side I am thinking of. Being able to be more observant. Not sure I want to live back in Yeshua's day I like a lot of the modern conveniences. Need my A/C

 

[anisavta]

Most Messianics steer clear of anything that seems Orthodox. A/C comes at a big price, and unless you go there with a nice nest egg or prospect of a good job, forget about a car. It's a good pair of shoes or public transportation.

 

[ChavaK]

unless you go there with a nice nest egg

Reminds me of the old joke, How do you make a small fortune in Israel?
Move there with a large one.

 

[Lulav]

Reminds me of the old joke, How do you make a small fortune in Israel?
Move there with a large one.

 

[anisavta]

 

[Desert Rose]

heeeee... Chava rocks!

 

[AngeliaBell]

I have never in my life heard such a thing?



And that's fine. But I see no reason to act like it's a dirty word or that Jews go around thinking "my goodness, those people do such Gentile things".

Gentile, Non-Jew, no big deal.

Well Dahling I guess you never heard that the Jews considered the Gentiles dogs, huh, or that Jews considered Gentiles unholy or unclean? I think maybe you have. That's the whole concept that God used in Peter's vision to wake him up to the idea that maybe Jews shouldn't be considering Non-Jews unclean (unholy).

You know how you know that Gentile isn't a lovely term? Getting "cut off from among my people" was a punishment. When one was cut off and set out of the camp, they were left to wander with the Gentiles. In fact, the children of Israel, were flushed like a toliet into the Gentile lands as a punishment for their sins.

So hangin' with Gentiles was seen as a consequence of bad actions. Let me ask you this, remember when Israel was returning from the diaspora and all the Israeli men who had taken Gentile wives and had children were commanded to divorce them all. Now is that anyway to treat perfectly good Gentiles?

Being a Gentile was so loathed by Israel and subsequently Jews that no one in the whole Bible tries to become a Gentile. LOL!!!

Can you see a good Jew with his payot and tzit tzit scurrying around and saying, "Let's see what must I do to become a gentile? Well I guess the list would look like this: eat some pork chops, work on the Sabbath, ignore God's ways, mingle your worship with false gods. Yep that's a good start."

Maybe the Jews should have begun a conversion class and disciple people into Gentilehood for when Jews were tired of being Jews.

But, of course, I'm just being a little light here. So seriously, have you had a chance to read any Josephus? Great source for learning some insight into Jewish thought.

I am avoiding rewriting anything I already wrote in my previous post, so I think that'll do.

 

[xDenax]

Well Dahling I guess you never heard that the Jews considered the Gentiles dogs, huh, or that Jews considered Gentiles unholy or unclean? I think maybe you have. That's the whole concept that God used in Peter's vision to wake him up to the idea that maybe Jews shouldn't be considering Non-Jews unclean (unholy).

My world doesn't include people who think non-Jews are dogs and I don't know anything about Peter, therefore I don't know what you are referencing.

You know how you know that Gentile isn't a lovely term? Getting "cut off from among my people" was a punishment. When one was cut off and set out of the camp, they were left to wander with the Gentiles.

Being cut off from your community, from your family and from your friends is devastating. At to that fact that Jewish live revolves around community. I don't know what this has to do with gentiles?

So hangin' with Gentiles was seen as a consequence of bad actions. Let me ask you this, remember when Israel was returning from the diaspora and all the Israeli men who had taken Gentile wives and had children were commanded to divorce them all. Now is that anyway to treat perfectly good Gentiles?

In my opinion it was really harsh. I understand the reasoning as very often so goes the wife as it pertains the religion, so goes the family. I do think it was harsh but I don't think it was because non-Jews were considered "dogs".

Being a Gentile was so loathed by Israel and subsequently Jews that no one in the whole Bible tries to become a Gentile. LOL!!!

Huh? So you are saying being a Non-Jew is loathsome? That is an awful thing to say.

Can you see a good Jew with his payot and tzit tzit scurrying around and saying, "Let's see what must I do to become a gentile? Well I guess the list would look like this: eat some pork chops, work on the Sabbath, ignore God's ways, mingle your worship with false gods. Yep that's a good start."

What the heck are you talking about? This doesn't make sense. If you are talking about assimilation it happens all the time. It doesn't make a Jew a non-Jew.

Maybe the Jews should have begun a conversion class and disciple people into Gentilehood for when Jews were tired of being Jews.

It's impossible to convert to be a gentile, so I don't know what point you are trying to make here?

But, of course, I'm just being a little light here. So seriously, have you had a chance to read any Josephus? Great source for learning some insight into Jewish thought.

No, I don't read Josephus.

 

[yedida]

Well Dahling I guess you never heard that the Jews considered the Gentiles dogs, huh, or that Jews considered Gentiles unholy or unclean? I think maybe you have. That's the whole concept that God used in Peter's vision to wake him up to the idea that maybe Jews shouldn't be considering Non-Jews unclean (unholy).

You know how you know that Gentile isn't a lovely term? Getting "cut off from among my people" was a punishment. When one was cut off and set out of the camp, they were left to wander with the Gentiles. In fact, the children of Israel, were flushed like a toliet into the Gentile lands as a punishment for their sins.

So hangin' with Gentiles was seen as a consequence of bad actions. Let me ask you this, remember when Israel was returning from the diaspora and all the Israeli men who had taken Gentile wives and had children were commanded to divorce them all. Now is that anyway to treat perfectly good Gentiles?

Being a Gentile was so loathed by Israel and subsequently Jews that no one in the whole Bible tries to become a Gentile. LOL!!!

Can you see a good Jew with his payot and tzit tzit scurrying around and saying, "Let's see what must I do to become a gentile? Well I guess the list would look like this: eat some pork chops, work on the Sabbath, ignore God's ways, mingle your worship with false gods. Yep that's a good start."

Maybe the Jews should have begun a conversion class and disciple people into Gentilehood for when Jews were tired of being Jews.

But, of course, I'm just being a little light here. So seriously, have you had a chance to read any Josephus? Great source for learning some insight into Jewish thought.

I am avoiding rewriting anything I already wrote in my previous post, so I think that'll do.

Have you not noticed that you were speaking to a Jew? I don't think she needs to read anybody to have some insight into Jewish thought.

 

[xDenax]

I could always learn more about Jewish thought throughout history but I wouldn't go to Josephus for it.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Josephus was wild...

 

[AngeliaBell]

Have you not noticed that you were speaking to a Jew? I don't think she needs to read anybody to have some insight into Jewish thought.

Hmm....you think being born American means you never need American history? Or do you presume that all Americans have a sufficient knowledge of American history or American historical attitudes? Probably not. Being Jewish or being born Jewish doesn't automatically mean one knows or even cares about Jewish history or historically documented Jewish attitudes. Think about how many Christians are completely unaware of the pervasive antisemitic attitude that Christians have had. Christians need a history lesson too.

 

[xDenax]

Hmm....you think being born American means you never need American history? Or do you presume that all Americans have a sufficient knowledge of American history or American historical attitudes? Probably not. Being Jewish or being born Jewish doesn't automatically mean one knows or even cares about Jewish history or historically documented Jewish attitudes. Think about how many Christians are completely unaware of the pervasive antisemitic attitude that Christians have had. Christians need a history lesson too.

I agree with you. However, Josephus is not where I go for a Jewish history lesson.

 

[AngeliaBell]

I agree with you. However, Josephus is not where I go for a Jewish history lesson.

1. Why not Josephus?
2. Where *would* you go for Jewish history

Answers to these would actually be a constructive way to contribute to a conversation. Thanks!

 

[xDenax]

2. Where *would* you go for Jewish history

Are you asking about Jewish thought or about Jewish history? I could get information from many places. Currently I'm reading reading Everyman's Talmud which gives a small glimpse into the thoughts of the Rabbis in the Talmud. Studying the Talmud itself would be one of the best routes to go but it's not a project to be taken on alone. You must study with a knowledgeable Rabbi who understands the nuances and the history. This I suppose would be one of the best ways to get a handle on Jewish thought in past generations.

There is also Rambam, Rashi, Heschel, Davidowicz, Steinsaltz, Kaplan (he's a bit mystical oriented), Weisel, Wouk, Lamm, Buber, Twerski, I could go on and on...

And then of course there are internet based sources like Chabad, Aish, Jewish Virtual Library.

All that to say that Josephus just wouldn't be my first stop. There is so much else out there that I think would be more helpful and more interesting.