Christian marriage same gender? Where???

[Phinehas2]

KCKID,

Why this obsession for using the Bible as a 'how to' manual? It surely was never intended to be used in this manner and never intended to be used in a manner that diminishes the human-ness of another person. And, that is precisely what you and others are doing.

No, the Bible shows we are not doing that but you are. Same sex relationships lead to death, not eternal Kingdom life in God through Christ.
This is starting to get like an argument as to whether a 30mph speed sign says 30 or not.

I'm not basing my acceptance of committed homosexual relationships on mere feelings. I simply do not believe that Jesus would object to these relationships based on my reading of the gospels.

Then obviously you are basing your acceptance on your feelings. You are also misreading the gospels. The statement of Christian faith CF uses is not just based on the gospels, so don’t suggest Jesus never even hinted His disapproval for homosexuality or I will hint you don’t have the Christian faith.

I've given my reasons but I'll add one more.

Well no you haven’t as they aren’t within Christianty, as Montalban and many others have pointed out.
If you want to show your reasons within Christianity you certainly are most welcome to do so.

That is, one's God-given free will to find a partner of their choice with whom to make a committed relationship ...or not, of course.

No that’s not Christianity, Christianity is acknowledging God created male and female and it was for this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be united with his wife.. or celibacy. Yours is your onw view based on your own feelings.

 

[Phinehas2]

Psudopod,

And what if they

‘they feel’ has nothing to do with it, Christians do not trust in their won feelings contrary to God’s word but I n God and His word.

feel revealation from God has led them to these views?

Scripture says to test everything, if their views are contrary to God’s word then their revelation is not from God.
And by the way, I don’t need to weigh up the world, a Christian trusts in God’s word.

 

[Psudopod]

Scripture says to test everything, if their views are contrary to God’s word then their revelation is not from God.

How do we know the bible is God’s word? Even the bible only even speaks of the Word in terms of Jesus.

And by the way, I don’t need to weigh up the world, a Christian trusts in God’s word.[/quote]

God created the world, according to the Christian view. It’s His handiwork. Ignoring God’s own work in favour of the bible is the mistake creationists make.

 

[Phinehas2]

Psudopod,
With respect the thread is about what the scriptures say which counetenance same gender union, Christians believe the Bible is God's word as far as you are concerned, both in what God created and for what purpose.

 

[quatona]

Where, in the New Testament, is there ANY cause or justification, to define or support "Christian marriage" between people of the same gender?

After 70+ pages I am still wondering about the methodological approach people use here.

Ok, if the NT says something is wrong it is wrong for a Christian.
If the NT says something is ok it is ok for a Christian.
So far it´s understandable.

Now, since the consensus even among the most vehement arguers on both sides seems to be that there isn´t any mentioning of same sex relationships in the NT (correct me if I am wrong) - what is a Christian to conclude from this fact?
1. If it isn´t mentioned in the NT it´s wrong.
2. If it isn´t mentioned in the NT it´s ok.
3. If it isn´t mentioned in the NT the NT cannot be used to argue either way.

 

[Psudopod]

Psudopod,
With respect the thread is about what the scriptures say which counetenance same gender union, Christians believe the Bible is God's word as far as you are concerned, both in what God created and for what purpose.

I know what the thread is about, I’ve been reading it. I think everyone has agreed there is no out and out statement saying gay marriage is good mm’kay. What people are question is what this means. Does it mean same sex marriage is forbidden, or wrong? Or is it merely not mentioned, like spaghetti and scarlet macaws, but not necessarily wrong in its own right? And no, not all Christians believe the bible is to be held above all else.

 

[Phinehas2]

Psudopod,

I think everyone has agreed there is no out and out statement saying gay marriage is good mm’kay. What people are question is what this means. Does it mean same sex marriage is forbidden, or wrong?

It means that as there are exclusions and condemnations of same sex relationships and no scriptures supporting, believers can be sure there is no doubt that same sex relationships are error as described.

And no, not all Christians believe the bible is to be held above all else.

All Christians however believe the Bible is the reliable standard of faith and understood guided by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Belk]

Psudopod,
It means that as there are exclusions and condemnations of same sex relationships and no scriptures supporting, believers can be sure there is no doubt that same sex relationships are error as described.
All Christians however believe the Bible is the reliable standard of faith and understood guided by the Holy Spirit.

Reality would seem to counter indicate this.

 

[Psudopod]

It means that as there are exclusions and condemnations of same sex relationships and no scriptures supporting, believers can be sure there is no doubt that same sex relationships are error as described.

The bible says nothing about same sex relationships. That’s the point! There is condemnation of roman pagan sex rites, and (possible) condemnation of male / male sex acts, but not homosexual relationships. There is also nothing on using the internet, eating spaghetti, wearing high heels etc. If you are going to say that as the bible says nothing about same sexual relationships they must be wrong, are going to claim it says the same thing about eating Italian food?

All Christians however believe the Bible is the reliable standard of faith and understood guided by the Holy Spirit.

Taking the bible above everything else leads to things like creationism, where God’s very handiwork is ignored in favour of words on a page.

 

[Nathan Poe]

All Christians however believe the Bible is the reliable standard of faith and understood guided by the Holy Spirit.

So, the Holy Spirit guides one's understanding of the Bible? Not the other way around?

 

[Phinehas2]

Belk,
No, reality would seem to confirm that there are two sexes in the species for sexual intercourse and reproduction, one cant argue with that reality, people thinking same sex is ok is just their thinking and against what exists in reality.

 

[Phinehas2]

Nathan Poe,

So, the Holy Spirit guides one's understanding of the Bible? Not the other way around?

Correct, the Holy Spirit reminded the NT writers of what Jesus taught and did, and reminds and guides believers today. There are knowledgable scholars but dont believe the Bible, and cant see the revealtions those who have the Spirit can.

 

[Phinehas2]

Psudopod,

The bible says nothing about same sex relationships. That’s the point!

Wrong. The Bible makes references to same sex relationships, as wicked, detestable and error. examples: Gen 19, Lev 18 & 20, 1 Cor 6, 1 Tim 1, Romans 1. Don’t tell me they don’t as you aren’t a believer. I am a believer I believe what they say.

There is condemnation of roman pagan sex rites, and (possible) condemnation of male / male sex acts, but not homosexual relationships.

Not true, the Bible refers to a man lying with a man as with a woman as detestable to God and what God’s people do not do (Leviticus 18 & 20) and men with men having relations with men instead of the natural with women as error (Romans 1) and homosexual offenders ( 1 Cor 6, 1 Tim 1)That is addressed to believers within and surrounded by non-believing cultures doing those things.

There is also nothing on using the internet, eating spaghetti, wearing high heels etc.

Non sequitur, as there is condemnation of same sex relationships.

Taking the bible above everything else leads to things like creationism, where God’s very handiwork is ignored in favour of words on a page.

Abandoning the Bible leads to thinking evolution is completely true rather than a theory.

 

[Psudopod]

Belk,
No, reality would seem to confirm that there are two sexes in the species for sexual intercourse and reproduction, one cant argue with that reality, people thinking same sex is ok is just their thinking and against what exists in reality.

There are two sexes needed for reproduction, but not necessarily for sexual intercourse. You can have intercourse without reproduction and reproduction without intercourse, so the two do not need the same criteria.

Same sex relationships exist in reality, and if you think they are wrong, you need to show why that is. What harm is there to same sex relationships that isn’t present in opposite sex ones?

 

[Psudopod]

Psudopod,
The bible says nothing about same sex relationships. That’s the point!
Wrong. The Bible makes references to same sex relationships, as wicked, detestable and error. examples: Gen 19, Lev 18 & 20, 1 Cor 6, 1 Tim 1, Romans 1. Don’t tell me they don’t as you aren’t a believer. I am a believer I believe what they say.

I have asked you to quote the actual verses, as I do not have a bible to hand.

There is condemnation of roman pagan sex rites, and (possible) condemnation of male / male sex acts, but not homosexual relationships.

Not true, the Bible refers to a man lying with a man as with a woman as detestable to God and what God’s people do not do (Leviticus 18 & 20) and men with men having relations with men instead of the natural with women as error (Romans 1) and homosexual offenders ( 1 Cor 6, 1 Tim 1)That is addressed to believers within and surrounded by non-believing cultures doing those things.

Neither Leviticus nor Romans are talking about relationships. Leviticus is possibly talking about male /male sex, though it may well be more specific than that. Romans is talking about a pagan orgy. The homosexual offenders is a very recent translation and doesn’t specify what an offender is, anyway.

There is also nothing on using the internet, eating spaghetti, wearing high heels etc.

Non sequitur, as there is condemnation of same sex relationships.

See above. It’s not talking about relationships.

Taking the bible above everything else leads to things like creationism, where God’s very handiwork is ignored in favour of words on a page.

Abandoning the Bible leads to thinking evolution is completely true rather than a theory.

You don’t understand science do you? Theory is as good as it gets. Gravity is a theory, germ theory atomic theory etc. Evolution is the best model of the diversity of life on Earth.

 

[Phinehas2]

Psudopod,

Yes there are two sexes for sexual intercourse on account of anatomy, unless of course you think sexual intercourse has nothing to do with reproduction and the organs usually thought of as sexual reproduction ones, aren’t.
In which case how can you show which organs are sexual.

 

[Belk]

Belk,
No, reality would seem to confirm that there are two sexes in the species for sexual intercourse and reproduction, one cant argue with that reality, people thinking same sex is ok is just their thinking and against what exists in reality.

Yes, and no matter how many times you trot out your naturalistic fallacy, and even if you claim it is not a fallacy, it does not change an "is" into an "ought". Feel free to come back when you have an actual logical argument against homosexuality.

 

[Phinehas2]

Belk,
Sorry but I am NOT drawing ethical conclusions from the reality, so this isnt a naturalistic fallacy, it is recognising anatomic function as opposed to thinking that what they think must be reality because they think it.
It is the Bible that shows reality is ethical, this is not the argument I am making here. The human species has two sexes, not one, so the idea that one makes a sexual relationship is nonsense based on what exists. All your argument does is show to me you have lost the plot.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Nathan Poe,
Correct, the Holy Spirit reminded the NT writers of what Jesus taught and did, and reminds and guides believers today. There are knowledgable scholars but dont believe the Bible, and cant see the revealtions those who have the Spirit can.

Ok -- as long as you've made it clear that God serves the Bible, not vice versa, I can ignore you without fearing I'm missing out on anything.

 

[Gishin]

Psudopod,

Yes there are two sexes for sexual intercourse on account of anatomy, unless of course you think sexual intercourse has nothing to do with reproduction and the organs usually thought of as sexual reproduction ones, aren’t.
In which case how can you show which organs are sexual.

False dichotemy and faulty if then logic.

You are saying if sex is not just for reproduction, then it must have nothing to do with reproduction, then gloating over that horrible logic.

We are saying that sex is not just for reproduction. We're not saying its not used for reproduction at all.