That's not to say I believe God takes a sadistic pleasure in destroying nations, however, from a literal point of view, I do not understand how you can see it any other way.johndoey said:
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Christian intolerance shows they are not Christian
- Thread starter somasoma77
- Start date
Jesus loved everyone but hated sin. It is possible to be like Jesus. When you love someone you are not quick to point out their faults but you are quick to show them the way to salvation. We should tolorate sin in others lives but not in our own lives. Jesus hates hypocrisy.
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what does it mean to be intolerant?
If it does mean to not let seducing spirits take control over you then yes be intolerant.
what does it mean to be tolerant?
If it does mean to be merciful and endure, then yes, be tolerant.
The latter is greater but nothing without the former
If it does mean to not let seducing spirits take control over you then yes be intolerant.
what does it mean to be tolerant?
If it does mean to be merciful and endure, then yes, be tolerant.
The latter is greater but nothing without the former
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johndoey, God doesn't take pleasure in killing anybody and dispite what someone else posted, he doesn't put people through death, sickness or anything to "teach them a leason". That just doesn't fit what Love would do. In regards to that scripture in Dueturonomy(I know I didn't spell it right), I'll look into it. You may need to give me some time before I can reply to you on that. I am still learning, I don't know it all but God said if I ask of Him, he will for no reason keep it from me.
Also, remember what Jesus said when he contrasted his ways from the devils. He said that the thief comes to steal, kill, and to destroy but I have come that you may have life like God has it and have it more abundantly.
Also, remember what Jesus said when he contrasted his ways from the devils. He said that the thief comes to steal, kill, and to destroy but I have come that you may have life like God has it and have it more abundantly.
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freespirit2001
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Jesus was protective of the poor in spirit, the humble in spirit, the meek, those who are persecuted for Jesus' sake:
[bible]Matthew 5:3-5[/bible]Matthew 5:3-5
[bible]Matthew 5:10-11[/bible]Matthew 5:10-11
[bible]Matthew 18:2-4[/bible]Matthew 18:2-4
and He does mention to seek the Kingdom of God FIRST:
[bible]Luke 12:31[/bible]Luke 12:31
We are also encouraged to endure great suffering, whether or not it is actual pain and illness or enduring intolerant behaviors around us, especially those behaviors aimed at our spirit and our natural love of life in the Lord:
[bible]2 Thessalonians 1:5-12[/bible]2 Thessalonians 1:5-12
This passage allso mentions the Lord's intolerance and vengeance on His own.
[bible]Matthew 8:22[/bible]Matthew 8:22
He does let us know the warnings to those who prevent others from entering the Kingdom, those who are inconsistent in their attitude and faith:
[bible]Matthew 19:24[/bible]Matthew 19:24
[bible]Matthew 21:31[/bible]Matthew 21:31
[bible]Matthew 7:21-23[/bible]Matthew 7:21-23
[bible]Matthew 23:13-15[/bible]Matthew 23:13-15
[bible]Matthew 23:29-36[/bible]Matthew 23:29-36
[bible]2 Timothy 3:1-5[/bible]2 Timothy 3:1-5
[bible]1 Corinthians 5:9-11[/bible]1 Corinthians5:9-11
[bible]1 Corinthians 6:9-11[/bible]1 Corinthians 6:9-11
[bible]Hebrews 12:28-29[/bible]Hebrew 12:28-29
[bible]Matthew 5:3-5[/bible]Matthew 5:3-5
[bible]Matthew 5:10-11[/bible]Matthew 5:10-11
[bible]Matthew 18:2-4[/bible]Matthew 18:2-4
and He does mention to seek the Kingdom of God FIRST:
[bible]Luke 12:31[/bible]Luke 12:31
We are also encouraged to endure great suffering, whether or not it is actual pain and illness or enduring intolerant behaviors around us, especially those behaviors aimed at our spirit and our natural love of life in the Lord:
[bible]2 Thessalonians 1:5-12[/bible]2 Thessalonians 1:5-12
This passage allso mentions the Lord's intolerance and vengeance on His own.
[bible]Matthew 8:22[/bible]Matthew 8:22
He does let us know the warnings to those who prevent others from entering the Kingdom, those who are inconsistent in their attitude and faith:
[bible]Matthew 19:24[/bible]Matthew 19:24
[bible]Matthew 21:31[/bible]Matthew 21:31
[bible]Matthew 7:21-23[/bible]Matthew 7:21-23
[bible]Matthew 23:13-15[/bible]Matthew 23:13-15
[bible]Matthew 23:29-36[/bible]Matthew 23:29-36
[bible]2 Timothy 3:1-5[/bible]2 Timothy 3:1-5
[bible]1 Corinthians 5:9-11[/bible]1 Corinthians5:9-11
[bible]1 Corinthians 6:9-11[/bible]1 Corinthians 6:9-11
[bible]Hebrews 12:28-29[/bible]Hebrew 12:28-29
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no telling how many people have rejected Christ due to the intolerance of alot of people, That is such a shame, We talk of a loving God then we bash people and try to make them feel inferior if they don't fit a certian "type" that we deem acceptable.
I always hear "love the sinner hate the sin" but usually really never see the actions of love givin to these people, just the judgemental annoying holier than tho statements directed at people. We are to Love our neighbor, not constantly badger our neighbor.
In the saying "love the sinner hate the sin" show these people love. Love is in actions.
How many have actually volenteered time to help out an AIDS victim, How many have
gone to visit someone who has been outcast by thier family, due to drugs, sexual orientation, etc during the hollidays so they don't have to be alone. To me that demonstrates love, not telling them they are going to hell and are worthless human beings. Like my momma once told me, if you can't say nothing nice, Don't say anything at all. People just don't get it that by thier brash behavior toward who they consider to be sinners is NOT winning people over to Christ, It is driving them away.
I always hear "love the sinner hate the sin" but usually really never see the actions of love givin to these people, just the judgemental annoying holier than tho statements directed at people. We are to Love our neighbor, not constantly badger our neighbor.
In the saying "love the sinner hate the sin" show these people love. Love is in actions.
How many have actually volenteered time to help out an AIDS victim, How many have
gone to visit someone who has been outcast by thier family, due to drugs, sexual orientation, etc during the hollidays so they don't have to be alone. To me that demonstrates love, not telling them they are going to hell and are worthless human beings. Like my momma once told me, if you can't say nothing nice, Don't say anything at all. People just don't get it that by thier brash behavior toward who they consider to be sinners is NOT winning people over to Christ, It is driving them away.
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Is it not possible that God punishment of his people was actually an act of love?
Revelation 3
19Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent.
Proverbs 13:24(AMP): "He who spares his rod (of discipline) hates his son, but he who loves him diligently disciplines and punishes him early."
Just because you love someone does not mean that you let them go on in their sinful ways without telling them or trying to change them and so it is unloving not to tell others of their major shortcomings rather than being unloving to tell others of their sins/failures although it should be done in a loving way.
Proverbs 13v1
A wise son heeds his father's instruction, but a mocker does not listen to rebuke.
Proverbs 1
7 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge,
but fools despise wisdom and discipline.
8 Listen, my son, to your father's instruction
and do not forsake your mother's teaching.
9 They will be a garland to grace your head
and a chain to adorn your neck.
10 My son, if sinners entice you,
do not give in to them.
20 Wisdom calls aloud in the street,
she raises her voice in the public squares;
21 at the head of the noisy streets [3] she cries out,
in the gateways of the city she makes her speech:
22 "How long will you simple ones [4] love your simple ways?
How long will mockers delight in mockery
and fools hate knowledge?
23 If you had responded to my rebuke,
I would have poured out my heart to you
and made my thoughts known to you.
24 But since you rejected me when I called
and no one gave heed when I stretched out my hand,
25 since you ignored all my advice
and would not accept my rebuke,
26 I in turn will laugh at your disaster;
I will mock when calamity overtakes you-
27 when calamity overtakes you like a storm,
when disaster sweeps over you like a whirlwind,
when distress and trouble overwhelm you.
28 "Then they will call to me but I will not answer;
they will look for me but will not find me.
29 Since they hated knowledge
and did not choose to fear the LORD ,
30 since they would not accept my advice
and spurned my rebuke,
31 they will eat the fruit of their ways
and be filled with the fruit of their schemes.
32 For the waywardness of the simple will kill them,
and the complacency of fools will destroy them;
33 but whoever listens to me will live in safety
and be at ease, without fear of harm."
Psalm 119
21 You rebuke the arrogant, who are cursed
and who stray from your commands.
Proverbs 15
30 A cheerful look brings joy to the heart,
and good news gives health to the bones.
31 He who listens to a life-giving rebuke
will be at home among the wise.
32 He who ignores discipline despises himself,
but whoever heeds correction gains understanding.
Proverbs 28
23 He who rebukes a man will in the end gain more favor
than he who has a flattering tongue.
Ecclesiastes 7
5 It is better to heed a wise man's rebuke
than to listen to the song of fools.
Titus 1
12Even one of their own prophets has said, "Cretans are always liars, evil brutes, lazy gluttons." 13This testimony is true. Therefore, rebuke them sharply, so that they will be sound in the faith 14and will pay no attention to Jewish myths or to the commands of those who reject the truth.
Titus 2
14who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.
15These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.
God loves everyone and yet he still rebukes those who are wrong and i don't necessarily think a christian is being unloving if they rebuke someone who is clearly wrong although it is possible. Also it is wise that we should listen to other when they rebuke us as it can often teach us and help us to grow. The bible only says to listen to the rebukes of the wise as they can teach us but not to listen to the rebukes of fools as some rebukes may be unjustified. There will also be those who reject rebuke and if they reject your rebuke then do not waste time trying to rebuke them even more but remember rebukes ahould be done in a loving way and are reserved for the wiser and more mature christians and you should never rebuke someone unless you are 100% sure they are wrong. Tolerance is not a biblical virtue and we are never told to be tolerant but we are told to be loving and we need to find a balance between rebuking those who are wrong and loving them at the same time without going to either extreme.
The fact is that gods punishments claim to be for the good of the people who were punished eg is it not possible that the destruction of hitlers nazi regime or the fall of communism or the american invasion of iraq was good for the world? in the same way it is possible that gods destruction of certain evil peoples was actually the best thing for society and was the most loving thing that he could do.
Revelation 3
19Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent.
Proverbs 13:24(AMP): "He who spares his rod (of discipline) hates his son, but he who loves him diligently disciplines and punishes him early."
Just because you love someone does not mean that you let them go on in their sinful ways without telling them or trying to change them and so it is unloving not to tell others of their major shortcomings rather than being unloving to tell others of their sins/failures although it should be done in a loving way.
Proverbs 13v1
A wise son heeds his father's instruction, but a mocker does not listen to rebuke.
Proverbs 1
7 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge,
but fools despise wisdom and discipline.
8 Listen, my son, to your father's instruction
and do not forsake your mother's teaching.
9 They will be a garland to grace your head
and a chain to adorn your neck.
10 My son, if sinners entice you,
do not give in to them.
20 Wisdom calls aloud in the street,
she raises her voice in the public squares;
21 at the head of the noisy streets [3] she cries out,
in the gateways of the city she makes her speech:
22 "How long will you simple ones [4] love your simple ways?
How long will mockers delight in mockery
and fools hate knowledge?
23 If you had responded to my rebuke,
I would have poured out my heart to you
and made my thoughts known to you.
24 But since you rejected me when I called
and no one gave heed when I stretched out my hand,
25 since you ignored all my advice
and would not accept my rebuke,
26 I in turn will laugh at your disaster;
I will mock when calamity overtakes you-
27 when calamity overtakes you like a storm,
when disaster sweeps over you like a whirlwind,
when distress and trouble overwhelm you.
28 "Then they will call to me but I will not answer;
they will look for me but will not find me.
29 Since they hated knowledge
and did not choose to fear the LORD ,
30 since they would not accept my advice
and spurned my rebuke,
31 they will eat the fruit of their ways
and be filled with the fruit of their schemes.
32 For the waywardness of the simple will kill them,
and the complacency of fools will destroy them;
33 but whoever listens to me will live in safety
and be at ease, without fear of harm."
Psalm 119
21 You rebuke the arrogant, who are cursed
and who stray from your commands.
Proverbs 15
30 A cheerful look brings joy to the heart,
and good news gives health to the bones.
31 He who listens to a life-giving rebuke
will be at home among the wise.
32 He who ignores discipline despises himself,
but whoever heeds correction gains understanding.
Proverbs 28
23 He who rebukes a man will in the end gain more favor
than he who has a flattering tongue.
Ecclesiastes 7
5 It is better to heed a wise man's rebuke
than to listen to the song of fools.
Titus 1
12Even one of their own prophets has said, "Cretans are always liars, evil brutes, lazy gluttons." 13This testimony is true. Therefore, rebuke them sharply, so that they will be sound in the faith 14and will pay no attention to Jewish myths or to the commands of those who reject the truth.
Titus 2
14who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.
15These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.
God loves everyone and yet he still rebukes those who are wrong and i don't necessarily think a christian is being unloving if they rebuke someone who is clearly wrong although it is possible. Also it is wise that we should listen to other when they rebuke us as it can often teach us and help us to grow. The bible only says to listen to the rebukes of the wise as they can teach us but not to listen to the rebukes of fools as some rebukes may be unjustified. There will also be those who reject rebuke and if they reject your rebuke then do not waste time trying to rebuke them even more but remember rebukes ahould be done in a loving way and are reserved for the wiser and more mature christians and you should never rebuke someone unless you are 100% sure they are wrong. Tolerance is not a biblical virtue and we are never told to be tolerant but we are told to be loving and we need to find a balance between rebuking those who are wrong and loving them at the same time without going to either extreme.
The fact is that gods punishments claim to be for the good of the people who were punished eg is it not possible that the destruction of hitlers nazi regime or the fall of communism or the american invasion of iraq was good for the world? in the same way it is possible that gods destruction of certain evil peoples was actually the best thing for society and was the most loving thing that he could do.
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freespirit2001
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Clarity said:
I like your passages that you selected here, but I narrowed down a few to get to the main point and so I can add a few more about "REBUKE" and "DISCIPLINE" in the Lord.
Also about rebuke in Jesus' time:
Matthew 18:15-20
"If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you you have gained a brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you that every word may be confirmed by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. Truly, I say to you whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them."
Matthew 18:21-22
[bible]Matthew 18:21-22[/bible]
I think this is true. I would like to add:
[bible]2 Timothy 3:1-5[/bible]
[bible]Titus 1:15-16[/bible]
The Holy Spirit will also bring authority and power to our faith and our life and our walk with God:
[bible]Ephesians 1:13[/bible]
bible]Romans 8:37[/bible]
[bible]1 Thessalonians 4:14-21[/bible]
bible]2 Thessalonians 1:5-8[/bible]
[bible]Titus 1:15[/bible]
[bible]1 Corinthians 6:9-11[/bible]
I think the destruction of peoples who raised themselves above our God---Our Lord of life and of the living, and His Holy Word...those who had no respect for the life or the rights or the freedom of others...were doomed and were natural enemies of our God to begin with....There are those who will always be enemies of Christ also....Christ warns us of this.
[bible]Matthew 12:33-37[/bible]Matthew 12:33-37...I also am one to believe a person's actions are also what he says in his heart to others: "Actions speak louder than words..."
All of the chapter of Matthew 23 also speaks of the behaviors that bring destruction down to those who are venemently hateful against our God and those who are respectful to life around them and who love the spirit of God and life:
[bible]Matthew 23:13-15[/bible]Matthew 23:13-15
[bible]Matthew 23:29-36[/bible]Matthew 23:29-36
Blood guilt is a serious matter to our God, and the reason why Christ had to die on the cross for our sins....
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I'm sorry, but I think the inundation of posts that take up so much room is off putting. I'm going to be succinct in addressing this topic.
[bible]Matthew 22:37-40[/bible]
Everything that we are admonished to do falls underneath the umbrella of these two commandments.
* I don't want to get into this. The story of Cain and Abel actually does do well to describe what relevance blood had for sacrifice. (as do many other references in the Torah) But I have to disagree, Blood guilt is not why Christ died on the the cross.
[bible]Matthew 22:37-40[/bible]
Everything that we are admonished to do falls underneath the umbrella of these two commandments.
* I don't want to get into this. The story of Cain and Abel actually does do well to describe what relevance blood had for sacrifice. (as do many other references in the Torah) But I have to disagree, Blood guilt is not why Christ died on the the cross.
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Very true; you shall know them by their fruits. So yes there are people who have been baptised, go to church and do the outward things on sunday, but during the week they prove themselves to be a different person. Whereas there are people who haven't been baptised or even believve that there is a Christ, but devote their whole being towards helping others...somasoma77 said:Unity is love so emphasis on religious differences, race or intolerance rather than the unity of God is a strange god indeed and can be a challenge for us to overcome so we need to invoke the unity of God in all things. Jesus said, "Love thy neighbor as thyself," because it provides an effective answer to the many problems of modern life. This call for love tells us that we are united and that no other person is separate or apart in God's spiritual consciousness. Recognizing that we are all one in God's consciousness gives us full protection in His unity by integrating our individual life with the world around us and providing a basic harmony and equilibrium in our hearts and minds. This is a kind of insurance from the flood of negativity surrounding us because a relaxed mind and body is positive, priceless and an indestructible way to receive successful ideas and results.
In the four gospels, Jesus gives a parable of 2 sons, whose father goes to the first and asks him to go work in the vineyard and the first son agrees to this but does not do it. The father then goes to the second son and asks him to go labor in the vineyard, in response the second son tells him no he won't, but later the second son goes and toils in the vineyard. Which son shall recieve the greater reward?
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Blessed2003
Duck, duck, duck, GOOSE..
That is the greatest sin of mankind to me. We want people to 'hear' the word because we believe that it is good for them, however, when it is presented as a tool of condemnation, it will never save a lost soul, it will only drive the lost away from the One who gave His very own life for them.GMRELIC said:
I pray for UNITY among the bretheren, for the sake of our Lord we should stop spewing hatred and venom, and start speaking of His Goodness, Mercy, and Grace so that the people who have rejected Christ because of those who falsely carry His name, or carry it in their own way can join us in our pursuit of loving God and man...
Blessings,
B
groupray: )
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jesusfreak3786
Senior Veteran
There are diffrent ways of speaking the gospel to a christian if they stray rebuke is a blessing. For a pagan, to lead them to the narrow path must be done with a gentle hand. That of corse as far as our capasity is concerned, God brings low and brings to him for the best of his child. Brothers and sisters will rebuke one another and that is right, but is it right to correct a child with the rod of correction unless it comes from the Father. spiritualy speaking.
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Blessed2003
Duck, duck, duck, GOOSE..
I believe we should be more then careful about correcting our brothers and sisters, but we can be prepared to reprove out of love once we remove the log from our own eye, the we can see clearly to help our brothers and sisters, out of love. Because once we recognize the log in our own eye and work on our own problems, then our motives change and we feel the need to reprove out of love and concern and not out of the desire to be right and better.jesusfreak3786 said:
Blessings,
B
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jesusfreak3786
Senior Veteran
Yep exactly. To clarify I mean exactly what you wrote underneath it. I think you understand. Speak to your brothers in one way and to those that have not heard or don't belive another way. Rebuke won't work for one that does not know the command, that drives the rebuke.Blessed2003 said:
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There is one major flaw that is being tolerant all the time and being too tolerant. Being tolerant is a central belief of postmodernism/social morality call it what you will in other words it is seen as being politically correct and right to be tolerant to everyone by non christians who have this as part of their morality, however just because it is currently popular to be seen as tolerant does not make it something that christians should concentrate on.
Tolerance can often be used as an excuse for not speaking up for what is right so our beliefs come across as weak and meaningless if we do not defend them or state them because we are afraid and we should not be ashamed of the gospel but speak up when asked. Those to whom jesus were tolerant to, were those who realised their sinfulness and repented. Jesus was not always tolerant he showed no tolerance to the pharisees(who were proud,legalistic and openly opposed jesus) or when he ransacked the stall of the sellers in the temple, the main time he was tolerant was when he was in a one to one conversation with someone who was open to christianity. I think christians often fail to take a clear public stand against many evils and I am against this form of tolerance when christian pastors do not condemn homosexuality,adultery, fornication, divorce, abortion etc. I think the church is sometimes guilty of telling the people what they want to hear by suppressing what the bible says and avoiding condemning those who openly sin and show no repentance and by being too tolerant it appears the church is in favour of things and have you ever heard the saying evil flourishes because good men fail to act. Maybe if the church was more unitedly vocal in its views about things then more people would listen to it (at the moment it is easy to find a church that will tell you that a certain activity is not sinful as there is a ridiculously large range of christian views on most subjects and a general consensus of what is right/wrong is lacking just look at views on abortion,homosexuality, pornography,fornication there are supposedly christian sites on the internet in support of all these things which is very sad and confusing for christians) and i see nothing wrong with the church condemning/rebuking sinful activities, however in personal conversations with non christians tolerance is required. Between two christians i think it can be very helpful for an older christian to advise a younger one and harsh rebukes are sometimes necessary.
Tolerance can often be used as an excuse for not speaking up for what is right so our beliefs come across as weak and meaningless if we do not defend them or state them because we are afraid and we should not be ashamed of the gospel but speak up when asked. Those to whom jesus were tolerant to, were those who realised their sinfulness and repented. Jesus was not always tolerant he showed no tolerance to the pharisees(who were proud,legalistic and openly opposed jesus) or when he ransacked the stall of the sellers in the temple, the main time he was tolerant was when he was in a one to one conversation with someone who was open to christianity. I think christians often fail to take a clear public stand against many evils and I am against this form of tolerance when christian pastors do not condemn homosexuality,adultery, fornication, divorce, abortion etc. I think the church is sometimes guilty of telling the people what they want to hear by suppressing what the bible says and avoiding condemning those who openly sin and show no repentance and by being too tolerant it appears the church is in favour of things and have you ever heard the saying evil flourishes because good men fail to act. Maybe if the church was more unitedly vocal in its views about things then more people would listen to it (at the moment it is easy to find a church that will tell you that a certain activity is not sinful as there is a ridiculously large range of christian views on most subjects and a general consensus of what is right/wrong is lacking just look at views on abortion,homosexuality, pornography,fornication there are supposedly christian sites on the internet in support of all these things which is very sad and confusing for christians) and i see nothing wrong with the church condemning/rebuking sinful activities, however in personal conversations with non christians tolerance is required. Between two christians i think it can be very helpful for an older christian to advise a younger one and harsh rebukes are sometimes necessary.
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freespirit2001
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Christ showed his anger and intolerance for the scribes and the Pharisees in this passage about the shedding of the blood of the prophets...
[bible]Matthew 23:29-39[/bible]
I think this passage is about blood thirsty men and those who have blood guilt against the men and people of God. Are these the correct terms to use about this kind of sin: blood-thirsty and blood guilt?
[bible]Psalms 51:14[/bible]
[bible]Proverbs 29:10[/bible]
Paul's comment:
[bible]Acts 18:6[/bible]
This passage in Matthew, the Lord expresses his anger towards the scribes and the Pharisees, who promotes more anger and blood-thirsty hatred to the prophets of God ( in the Old Testament) and warns about their punishment for this blood-thirst and hatred. This is about intolerance aimed at the christian. Now-a-days if we have this kind of outrage aimed at us---by say---who obviously wasn't christian....and violated some of our First Amendment rights agianst us. Wouldn't we feel as angry as Christ...if we have legitimate proof of others abuse against us. Isn't this what being angry as a Christian is about? We have to learn to stand up for our rights and our concerns for the life around us, and for knowledge, our spiritual insight, our creative and inspiring abilities, the wisdom of God in us and the light of the Spirit of God within us. This to me, sounds like intolerance and intolerant behavior, yet Christ displayed this behavior in the very protection of us.
[bible]2 Timothy 1:7[/bible]
[bible]1 Peter 4:15-17[/bible]
There are other instances when we need this kind of strenght about this in the Christian ministry, other christians, the Spirit of God, the Spirit of God moving people's minds and hearts, etc....
My question is this: Christ is extremely sheltering and protective of us when he says "Vengeance is the Lord's:"
[bible]Romans 12:19[/bible]
Someone else might think it is not a very nice christian thought to think about...
then he goes on to say:[bible]Romans 12:20-21[/bible]
.
[bible]Matthew 23:29-39[/bible]
I think this passage is about blood thirsty men and those who have blood guilt against the men and people of God. Are these the correct terms to use about this kind of sin: blood-thirsty and blood guilt?
[bible]Psalms 51:14[/bible]
[bible]Proverbs 29:10[/bible]
Paul's comment:
[bible]Acts 18:6[/bible]
This passage in Matthew, the Lord expresses his anger towards the scribes and the Pharisees, who promotes more anger and blood-thirsty hatred to the prophets of God ( in the Old Testament) and warns about their punishment for this blood-thirst and hatred. This is about intolerance aimed at the christian. Now-a-days if we have this kind of outrage aimed at us---by say---who obviously wasn't christian....and violated some of our First Amendment rights agianst us. Wouldn't we feel as angry as Christ...if we have legitimate proof of others abuse against us. Isn't this what being angry as a Christian is about? We have to learn to stand up for our rights and our concerns for the life around us, and for knowledge, our spiritual insight, our creative and inspiring abilities, the wisdom of God in us and the light of the Spirit of God within us. This to me, sounds like intolerance and intolerant behavior, yet Christ displayed this behavior in the very protection of us.
[bible]2 Timothy 1:7[/bible]
[bible]1 Peter 4:15-17[/bible]
There are other instances when we need this kind of strenght about this in the Christian ministry, other christians, the Spirit of God, the Spirit of God moving people's minds and hearts, etc....
My question is this: Christ is extremely sheltering and protective of us when he says "Vengeance is the Lord's:"
[bible]Romans 12:19[/bible]
Someone else might think it is not a very nice christian thought to think about...
then he goes on to say:[bible]Romans 12:20-21[/bible]
.
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Clarity pretty much hit the nail on its head with her above post. Love was always a central motivation for the way Christ acted around people. As far as being tolerant in one-on-one conversation, what do you mean by that clarity? Do you mean let certain things slide or do you mean something else?
And someone wrote to me concerning my last post. asking me if I tried not taking that verse literally. What verse did you mean? And I have my own question: How do you know when not to take a verse literally and when to take a verse literally?
And someone wrote to me concerning my last post. asking me if I tried not taking that verse literally. What verse did you mean? And I have my own question: How do you know when not to take a verse literally and when to take a verse literally?
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I mean that you should let certain sins slide/be ignored and give the person a chance to repent and change their behaviour at first rather than automaticaly writing them off because of past sins however if they refuse to change their sinful behaviour and ignore the teaching of the bible and reject the christian message then they are an enemy to god and you do not have to be tolerant to those who openly oppose christianity and reject its teaching. In all the examples where jesus was tolerant the people appear to repent and change their behaviour at the end and no doubt jesus knew this would happen beforehand but in other circumstances he is not tolerant eg Pharisees as he knew they were too proud and legalistic to change and repent and he sees no need of tolerance if this is the case. Jesus knew how people would react unlike us but i think we should try and follow his example and be tolerant initially and only stop this if the christian message is clearly rejected. Remember tolerance doesn't mean you silently hide in the corner and keep quiet about your beliefs when someone says/does something that goes against christian teaching but you respectfully point out that you disagree with it and think it is wrong as it goes against christianity which you strongly believe in. However we should be loving all the time and i have already explained how being loving does not necessarily mean being tolerant.
Luke 9
25What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, and yet lose or forfeit his very self? 26If anyone is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels. 27I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God."
Philippians 1
19Yes, and I will continue to rejoice, for I know that through your prayers and the help given by the Spirit of Jesus Christ, what has happened to me will turn out for my deliverance.[1] 20I eagerly expect and hope that I will in no way be ashamed, but will have sufficient courage so that now as always Christ will be exalted in my body, whether by life or by death. 21For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain.
2 Timothy 1
7For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power, of love and of self-discipline.
8So do not be ashamed to testify about our Lord, or ashamed of me his prisoner. But join with me in suffering for the gospel, by the power of God, 9who has saved us and called us to a holy life--not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time,
Acts 13
45When the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy and talked abusively against what Paul was saying.
46Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: "We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles. 47For this is what the Lord has commanded us:
" 'I have made you[1] a light for the Gentiles,
that you[2] may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.'[3] "
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