Christian Fundamentalists Appreciate Life

[3sigma]

My deep feeling is that Christian Fundamentalists have the clearest understanding of the phrase: WHERE THERE IS LIFE THERE IS HOPE...

The logic being that while a person lives, he may turn his life over to GOD and become a Saved individual through CHRIST; however, once he is dead all hope is lost.

So the Fundamentalist Christian has sought to protect life, promote life, and save life.

If the Fundamentalist Christian has sought to protect, promote and save life then please explain why Christians tortured and burned people alive for heresy—in other words, merely for disagreeing with their particular interpretation of Christian fundamentals?

 

[3sigma]

NO ABORTIONS WOULD OCCURE AS THE RESULT OF CONVENIENCE ---- which in fact is premeditated murder.

How should women who choose to have abortions be punished?

 

[Axioma]

How should women who choose to have abortions be punished?

"They should be killed! Look how much we appreciate life!"

 

[Yusuf Evans]

The Moslems started it. Declared war is not murder.

Did you understand anything about the Crusades? When Muslims controlled Jerusalem, Chrisitans were not mistreated nor were they persecuted for their beliefs. Islam teaches us that we are not to force anyone to convert to Islam. When the Christians took over, they were about killing everyone during the Crusades and had no desire to allow Muslims to worship openly but forcibly make them convert to Christianity. Who's the more barbaric one?

If you're going to tout Christian virtue, what happened to the turn the cheek attitude that Jesus(PBUH) had said in your Bible? The fact that the Christian Crusaders went about killing women and children, plus committing cannibalism and rape, shows to me that you were bloodthirsty and power hungry. Learn about the Crusades before you start ranting that the atrocities committed by the Christians is justified because "Muslims" started it.

 

[LittleNipper]

I'm not surprised that you disagree. Yet, from what I recall of my study, the primary reason they discontinued allowing Christians to visit the holy sites, which was allowed for the first few centuries after the Muslims took the territory, is because of the nuisance many of the Christians made of themselves when they visited.

What? Did they leave candy wrappers laying about?

 

[LittleNipper]

Did you understand anything about the Crusades? When Muslims controlled Jerusalem, Chrisitans were not mistreated nor were they persecuted for their beliefs. Islam teaches us that we are not to force anyone to convert to Islam. When the Christians took over, they were about killing everyone during the Crusades and had no desire to allow Muslims to worship openly but forcibly make them convert to Christianity. Who's the more barbaric one?

If you're going to tout Christian virtue, what happened to the turn the cheek attitude that Jesus(PBUH) had said in your Bible? The fact that the Christian Crusaders went about killing women and children, plus committing cannibalism and rape, shows to me that you were bloodthirsty and power hungry. Learn about the Crusades before you start ranting that the atrocities committed by the Christians is justified because "Muslims" started it.

Yes, and the men could eat pork and the women didn't have to be vailed... Where did you get this stuff? Moslems didn't even have anything to say about the Crusades until about the last 30 years. Until that time there was really very little said. Could it be that they want to take Jerusalem back from Israel?

 

[tulc]

How do you feel about good, free health care for everyone?
tulc(thinks that would be pretty pro-life)

I'm still curious about this.
tulc(didn't see if it ever got answered)

 

[jayem]

Some Christian denominations truly do value life. The Quakers come to mind.

Fundamentalist Christians of today may value life, but not above their version of Biblical inerrancy and legalisms.

 

[Penumbra]

Several hundred years ago, life was expendable. If a man was killed, it mattered little to society.

That's always been the case and still is.

For most people, when they die, society doesn't care. An incredibly large number of people died today, did you cry for each one? Did you cry at all? I'd assume not, because they are expendable to you because you've never met them or heard of their specific death.

People only care when it's someone they know, or someone that is well-known.

I believe that every life is very valuable, so valuable that if one is properly convicted of a malicious murder, then the ONLY thing that will pay for such an offense is if that individual forfeits his life in payment.

You believe every life is valuable, so when one life is taken, more need to be taken? So for every loss of life, let's double it?

The Moslems started it. Declared war is not murder. One could question what the Japs did at Pearl Harbor, but the Moslems invaded Palestine and later Constantinople. They were hardly innocent victims.

"He started it." is not a good answer to why something continued.

Life is not about pleasure.

Life is about being productive and serving others and God.

Your view of life is too selfish for my tastes -- I disagree with the idea that we ought to seek pleasure over real concrete service to our neighbors.

What is the end result of being productive and serving others? If everyone serves others and is productive, but no one finds life to be pleasurable, then what is the point?

-Lyn

 

[ragarth]

Yes, and the men could eat pork and the women didn't have to be vailed... Where did you get this stuff? Moslems didn't even have anything to say about the Crusades until about the last 30 years. Until that time there was really very little said. Could it be that they want to take Jerusalem back from Israel?

While it is true that the cannibalism is a lie (as far as I know, it was started by the crusaders of the upper class as a way to denigrate the lower class), the crusaders did slaughter women and children. There was no geneva convention back then- Fields could be salted, farms burned, elderly, crippled, young, and females slaughtered. Wells could be poisoned, live-stock slaughtered. All these things were committed throughout the centuries by Christian, Muslim, etc alike, showing that religions are generally equal in valuation to life (buddhists excepted, ofcourse)- In other words, they value the lives of those within their perceived social group higher than those outside it, whether those outside it are enemies to be squashed or potential cattle to convert.

For this reason, and because I understand the fundamentalist mindset tends to be 'us vs them' I see 'fundamentalists value life' as meaning 'fundamentalists value life within our given social group as sacred, and other life as conditionally valuable' and there's nothing really unique about this, many non-fundamentalists have the exact same mindset (I just consider it unenlightened and barbaric, but that is the world we live in). This is proven by your very statements, a man is valuable unless he kills another, Muslims are valuable unless they're at war with Christians. And framing all this, the lives of non-christians are valuable only in that they can potentially become Christians. By your very words, not all life is sufficiently valuable to protect to you.

 

[Verv]

When did I say "Life is about pleasure."?

Seriously, I didn't say anything even remotely like that.

Don't put words in my mouth that I didn't actually say, and then say my view on life is selfish.

Read the post and reply to it properly. <staff edit>

And since when was life about serving God, anyway? I don't serve God, don't even believe he exists, does that make my life meaningless?

<staff edit>

You analyzed heaven and hell from a pleasure/pain perspective and I just had the impression that was the only thing you really enjoyed.

SO what is the point of life?

How do you serve your neighbours when you&#8217;re in heaven?

If life in heaven is of infinite duration, and life on earth is of finite duration, then at most, only 1/&#8734; of your entire life can be devoted to serving your neighbours. The other (&#8734;-1)/&#8734; of your life is just, what? Hanging around telling God how awesome she is?

First, God is a man.

Second, I am not sure if man enters Heaven immediately perfected.

Third, I am not sure service to God even ends when entering the Kingdom of Heaven. There could be a lot to preoccupy oneself with.

Fourth... Speculating on the nature of a place where everything is ruled by God is impossible as it is supernatural and we are only familiar with the natural world.

If the Fundamentalist Christian has sought to protect, promote and save life then please explain why Christians tortured and burned people alive for heresy&#8212;in other words, merely for disagreeing with their particular interpretation of Christian fundamentals?

First, I think the actual amount of deaths for witchcraft, etc. is pretty small.

It came during a period of time when most people were illiterate and were easily corrupted, thus, and those who held the power tried to horde it. A good example of this is the way that the Catholic Church did not want to have the Bible translated.

Second, if Christianity perfected men it would go against its own, basic concept that man is flawed.

Third, this is great because it does show the true nature of man as evil.

What is the end result of being productive and serving others? If everyone serves others and is productive, but no one finds life to be pleasurable, when what is the point?

-Lyn

One can receive pleasure from helping others, and if one does not receive satisfcation there is something wrong with that person.

 

[Penumbra]

One can receive pleasure from helping others, and if one does not receive satisfcation there is something wrong with that person.

So in the end, they still get pleasure. Pleasure is an end result, both for yourself and others.

-Lyn

 

[Alunyel]

<staff edit>

I was pointing out that an eternity in Hell would ultimately be no different from an eternity in Heaven. In both cases, you're left to spend forever alive, no matter how glorious Heaven is, or how damning Hell is, you would soon tire of each, and be left with an eternity of stagnation.

As William Murderface from Metalocalypse said, as quoted in my signature; "I would rather die than go to Heaven."

From a biological point of view, the point of life is to survive and replicate. Beyond that I cannot say, but saying it's to serve God is simply wrong. 2/3 of Earth's population don't believe in God, and <staff edit> knows how many of that 1/3 that do believe in him "serve" him. By saying that the point of life is to serve God, you're essentially saying life is pointless to those that don't serve him, myself included.

 

[Supernaut]

First, God is a man.

Really?? I was under the impression that God was genderless. The Holy Spirit too is genderless. Christ Jesus is a man.

Ultimately the Bible give very clear references to God loving us as a strong man and also like a mother nuturing her child.

So....ultimately, according to the Word, God can be a he or she personification as the situation sees fit.

 

[Mling]

Really?? I was under the impression that God was genderless. The Holy Spirit too is genderless. Christ Jesus is a man.

Ultimately the Bible give very clear references to God loving us as a strong man and also like a mother nuturing her child.

So....ultimately, according to the Word, God can be a he or she personification as the situation sees fit.

<staff edit> there are Psalms that make references to God's womb.

 

[Supernaut]

Its a beautiful morning!

 

[Verv]

God is a man:

1 Corinthians 11:7
For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man.

Of course, people will try to say God is "genderless" but from any perspective which puts weight in the Bible, that is not the case.

God created Man in His Image, and then He created women from man.

So in the end, they still get pleasure. Pleasure is an end result, both for yourself and others.

-Lyn

But pleasure is not the goal.

If pleasure is the goal, it is a selfish goal. We must kill our desires for the comforts of the body and for such decadence:

Romans 8:10
And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

It is the idea of separating ourselves from materialism and from all forms of flesh indulgence.

The quote at the bottom of my signature also pertains to this.

I imagine if you like any concepts of Buddhism you would be very interested in Christianity -- you should consider reading the Bible with an open mind.

 

[Alunyel]

When the Bible was written, the creator and ruler of everything could only be a man. To put a woman in such a powerful position would've been unheard of.

The Bible puts man above woman, more or less constantly. Portraying women as equal to men would give some women odd ideas about equality, and we can't have that, now, can we? They might want to take the positions of power away from the men.

To counter that, woman was made in the image of man, and man was made in the image of God, also a man.

Biblically, man is inferior to God in the same way woman is inferior to man.

 

[MoonLancer]

God is a man:

Isn't that blasphemy? I mean the only thing separating men from women is anatomy and some chemistry.

 

[Steezie]

But pleasure is not the goal.

If pleasure is the goal, it is a selfish goal. We must kill our desires for the comforts of the body and for such decadence

And why can the body not be comfortable?

It is the idea of separating ourselves from materialism and from all forms of flesh indulgence.

I dont see you squirreling yourself away in an ascetic manner, or any other Christians for that matter save a handful of Catholics.

I've never understood the compulsion to paint life as some sort of curse

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMZi217RUUY