Christian and pro-choice?

[Alithis]

To me those things just do not go together. I have never been able to wrap my head around how anyone who claims to be a believer and reads our scripture could be ok with ending a human life. We are talking about God's creation and we are talking about murder a very clear sin against God. Yet the selfishness of our society says it is ok so then God goes out the window. Thankfully the Baptist denomination is picking up pace in the pro-life movement and is coming in hot on the heels of the Catholics. We are in a time of battle and the movement is growing we have the youngest pro-life generation we have ever had. Things are changing in this country little by little. God is moving and hearts are changing!

The biggest lie of the last 41 years is that women need to kill their own children in order to be successful. We are told that a right to abort brings women empowerment. Every women who walks up to an abortion clinic feels anything but empowered if anything she feels powerless. She feels pressure to make that boss at work happy, or her college that won't work with her class schedule, or her boyfriend who will leave her. Why not use our money to help fund single mother programs, maternity homes, better the foster system, better the adoption system? Why do we keep believing the lie that abortion and slaughtering our children by thousands every day is the answer? In 41 years it hasn't solved any of our problems if anything it has made our problems worse!

So I ask you are you pro-life? Is your church pro-life?

What are you currently doing in the pro-life movement?

Are you stepping out to fight to end abortion?

hi , i think it was an error to get involved in the argument in the first place .
everyone has a conscience and if they quell it to act against it they will be held accountable.
every time Christianity gets involved in imposing christian values it has never ended well .
wasn't your constitution set up with the best of christian intentions ? but unlike Gods law .it is not done by God .. and now has been used to establish all manner of debaucherous laws . I wonder would it have been so easy to establish the laws in regard to abortion if the constitution did not exist to be used as argument ..ie "rights" etc . the rights of the individual have now been used to make a law to give the individual the right to disobey God ..because it is (according to man ) lawful . interesting isn't it .

it is written that we do not fight against flesh and blood ... yet time and time aghain we have made the error of fighting flesh with flesh .. and to be honest .. the only one that has ever won that fight - is flesh .

but fight in the spirit and people get saved and the lord changes their hearts and they become people who would never commit abortion. there is your answer to the whole issue ..it is in the furtherance of the Kingdom of God via the Gospel .. it will never be achieved through the furtherance of worldly methodology .

the only choice we should be making all peoples aware of is the one they ALL MUST MAKE .. to believe in Jesus repent and be saved.

 

[Wearecommandedtojudge]

I wonder would it have been so easy to establish the laws in regard to abortion if the constitution did not exist to be used as argument ..ie "rights" etc . the rights of the individual have now been used to make a law to give the individual the right to disobey God ..because it is (according to man ) lawful . interesting isn't it ..

The 14th amendment gives equal protection of law to all persons.

Do you know what Roe V Wade was about and what happened in Roe? The US Constitution gives equal protection of law to all (((PERSONS)))!!!! Unborn children ARE PERSONS by definition. The definition of a person is a living human being. Life Begins at conception, and if a unborn child isn't human what is it, a hippopotamus? When human life begins is a scientifically established fact and this is in many embryology text books.

What some of the more immoral and degenerative members of the US Supreme Court of 1973 did was declare that unborn children are not persons in the same way that the 1857 US Supreme Court declared black people are not persons! Incidentally the German Supreme Court declared that JEWS are not persons in 1936. Three holocausts started by two Supreme Courts saying the exact same thing. Two of these holocausts are American.

Furthermore Jesus is in the US Constitution. At the end the Constitution says "In The Year Of OUR Lord One Thousand Seven Hundred and Eighty Seven." Many of those who signed off on the Constitution while members of Congress used public funds to print Bibles, build Churches, and fund missionaries. The President who signed off on these things was none other then Thomas Jefferson.

WallBuilders - Historical Writings - Letters Between the Danbury Baptists and Thomas Jefferson
While Jefferson never signed the Constitution, he couldn't have as he was out of the country at the time it was signed on a diplomatic mission to France although he did sign the Declaration of Independence and it was partly through his insistence that the first ten amendments where adopted. The phrase "Separation of Church and State" came from a letter he wrote to the Danbury Baptists Association. This letter was a response a letter they had written him in concern that they would be discriminated against as their beliefs were unpopular. The Wall of Separation Jefferson spoke of was supposed to protect the Church from the State, not the other way around. The Church is made up of People, some of which are American citizens and these citizens have a right to vote and to petition the government for redress of grievances as well as a right to free exercise thereof and freedom of speech.

The Constitution which Jefferson did sign and a lot of those who signed the Constitution also signed mentions God extensively. The Declaration of Independence The ACLU and hypocritical liberals everywhere would be calling for Obama's impeachment if he did what Jefferson did!!!

it is written that we do not fight against flesh and blood ... yet time and time aghain we have made the error of fighting flesh with flesh .. and to be honest .. the only one that has ever won that fight - is flesh..

Should we not have used Laws and Governmental Power to end Slavery in this Country as well as to Fight the Third Reich and take the Nazis out of power? Constitutionally speaking since regardless of what the Supreme Court says unborn children are by definition persons. The fact is technically abortion is illegal and has been this entire time. The Constitution is higher then local, county, state, and federal law and any such laws in the United States which violate the Constitution are null and void. The 14th amendment grants equal protection of law to all persons. Since unborn children are persons this includes them. A person is by definition a living human being. If a supreme court in the future recognizes that unborn children are people that would mean double jeopardy would not apply since it was illegal the entire time.

We should vote for solidly pro-life candidates not only in the hopes of instituting federal and state laws but also in the hopes the pro-life judges will be elected to the supreme court. With enough Pro-Life judges on that court we could end abortion in this country.

 

[Bella Vita]

hi , i think it was an error to get involved in the argument in the first place .
everyone has a conscience and if they quell it to act against it they will be held accountable.
every time Christianity gets involved in imposing christian values it has never ended well .
wasn't your constitution set up with the best of christian intentions ? but unlike Gods law .it is not done by God .. and now has been used to establish all manner of debaucherous laws . I wonder would it have been so easy to establish the laws in regard to abortion if the constitution did not exist to be used as argument ..ie "rights" etc . the rights of the individual have now been used to make a law to give the individual the right to disobey God ..because it is (according to man ) lawful . interesting isn't it .

it is written that we do not fight against flesh and blood ... yet time and time aghain we have made the error of fighting flesh with flesh .. and to be honest .. the only one that has ever won that fight - is flesh .

but fight in the spirit and people get saved and the lord changes their hearts and they become people who would never commit abortion. there is your answer to the whole issue ..it is in the furtherance of the Kingdom of God via the Gospel .. it will never be achieved through the furtherance of worldly methodology .

the only choice we should be making all peoples aware of is the one they ALL MUST MAKE .. to believe in Jesus repent and be saved.

Yes the goal is to change people's hearts and minds. By to do so you need to point out why abortion is taking not just one life but two. And through life one can see their creator their God. Just because you see it as a loosing battle doesn't mean I will ever stop fighting for the unborn and the injustice to women that happens in this country every day. Jesus would not stand for that if he was here and neither do I. I will not have such weak faith that I say well we can't win so why even try. If Jesus had done that to us we would all be going to hell.

 

[Wearecommandedtojudge]

Babies are literally being ripped apart limb by limb from their mother's womb having saline and poison injected in their brains, and we are talking 4,000 a day. We do things to the unborn in this country that we would't do to puppies and kittens. If PP got caught doing the things they do to babies to puppies and kittens there would be riots in the streets! American land of the liberal hypocrites!

Oh but don't you know if your pro-life you are the crazy extreme person who just makes no sense! (eye roll)

If we lived in Germany in the late 30's early 40's we would face the same thing. "Oh Jason and Bella, so you think Jews are persons, your crazy."

I am not exaggerating. So called "prochoicers", those who support abortion, have the same spirit as the National Socialists. You would have been called nuts for thinking Jews where people and thinking they should have rights. If you had tried to show people pictures and evidence of what went on in the camps most Nazis wouldn't want to see it and wouldn't have listened. They wouldn't have believed you are would think you were nuts.

I have a friend who is a Nazi and he is a holocaust revisionist. Show him pictures and he will still deny what happened. He will say they were not murdered, the typhoid did them in and that the Russians planted the evidence.

Do you know what the difference between a Camp Guard who participated in the mass executions and a abortionists is? The abortionist gets paid more and the guard's uniform looks better. Other then that they are the same.

 

[Wearecommandedtojudge]

Yes the goal is to change people's hearts and minds. By to do so you need to point out why abortion is taking not just one life but two. And through life one can see their creator their God. Just because you see it as a loosing battle doesn't mean I will ever stop fighting for the unborn and the injustice to women that happens in this country every day. Jesus would not stand for that if he was here and neither do I. I will not have such weak faith that I say well we can't win so why even try. If Jesus had done that to us we would all be going to hell.

There where times when the allies where losing the battle against the Nazis and quite frankly the battle against slavery was a losing one once upon a time.

Even after Hitler took over there where Germans who fought him by hiding and smuggling Jews.

There where many people during the inquisition who hid those called Anabaptists (meaning rebaptisers, they were called this because they believed one must believe to be baptized) and hid others with unpopular religious beliefs and tried to smuggle them into countries with less persecution.

 

[Alithis]

Yes the goal is to change people's hearts and minds. By to do so you need to point out why abortion is taking not just one life but two. And through life one can see their creator their God. Just because you see it as a loosing battle doesn't mean I will ever stop fighting for the unborn and the injustice to women that happens in this country every day. Jesus would not stand for that if he was here and neither do I. I will not have such weak faith that I say well we can't win so why even try. If Jesus had done that to us we would all be going to hell.

oh i never see it as a losing battle lol
just a battle that will never be won my means of the strength of the flesh .

i have never been much involved in this fight on the surface . but in my life the few people i have come across on a personal level that have been on the cross roads of such decisions pressured by all manner of forces .. we have prayed for the child in the womb. and every one of them went on to give birth and now have healthy sons and daughters .

i view the imposing of morals by way of law with the hindsite of records and find ... people will do what ever evil is on thier hearts to do because it is on their hearts to do it .
ie it is against the law to murder in the states ... yet it has a phenomenally high rate of murder . (not meaning to single the US out) so we see from this that "laws" do not change hearts .

HOWEVER ..i do like to see you hard at work in getting the message out that
HEY its a lie that there is a need to even consider that choice in the first place .
for all the false hype .. in reality no ones life has ever been ruined by going ahead and having a child .. quite the opposite the child enriches their life's experiences , changes our self centered youthful view into one of caring for another and not self alone ,brings nothing but the cycle of test ,effort and reward .
the lie of the materialistic minded career driven world is that you lose from having the child
and we need to continue to tell people that the lie they hear from that world is delusional . that world will step on your head and crush you out to excel over the top of you .no mater how single and driven you are and if it doesn't it will be you doing it to someone else .. because if a person is the type to cast aside a child to gain a dollar and some prestige , they are not a type i would ever wish to do business with .(but of course all that is only one sect of society)

 

[Bella Vita]

oh i never see it as a losing battle lol
just a battle that will never be won my means of the strength of the flesh .

i have never been much involved in this fight on the surface . but in my life the few people i have come across on a personal level that have been on the cross roads of such decisions pressured by all manner of forces .. we have prayed for the child in the womb. and every one of them went on to give birth and now have healthy sons and daughters .

i view the imposing of morals by way of law with the hindsite of records and find ... people will do what ever evil is on thier hearts to do because it is on their hearts to do it .
ie it is against the law to murder in the states ... yet it has a phenomenally high rate of murder . (not meaning to single the US out) so we see from this that "laws" do not change hearts .

HOWEVER ..i do like to see you hard at work in getting the message out that
HEY its a lie that there is a need to even consider that choice in the first place .
for all the false hype .. in reality no ones life has ever been ruined by going ahead and having a child .. quite the opposite the child enriches their life's experiences , changes our self centered youthful view into one of caring for another and not self alone ,brings nothing but the cycle of test ,effort and reward .
the lie of the materialistic minded career driven world is that you lose from having the child
and we need to continue to tell people that the lie they hear from that world is delusional . that world will step on your head and crush you out to excel over the top of you .no mater how single and driven you are and if it doesn't it will be you doing it to someone else .. because if a person is the type to cast aside a child to gain a dollar and some prestige , they are not a type i would ever wish to do business with .(but of course all that is only one sect of society)

I believe this is a battle that takes spirit and flesh. Sitting at home praying abortion will end is not enough anymore. We are out on the street in front of these clinics washing them in prayer we are ministering to these women and to these workers. And lives are changing hearts are changing women are saving their babies and workers are quitting their jobs. This last year has been very successful for the pro-life movement in this country. God is hearing us and he is responding in big ways. But these girls will not know any other types of help for parenting or support if we don't get out there and give it to them. Because the abortion industry sure isn't all they want is their money. Many of these girls don't even know places like pregnancy centers exist and they are amazed and so over joyed when they hear of the help they can offer. We in the pro-life movement believe the best way to take care of a crisis pregnancy is to eliminate the crisis in the women's life not the child. So to do that we have to be out there telling these women there are other very real options available to them and direct them to where they can go. Even if the abortion is already done and they just need love we hug them wipe their tears pray over them and tell them where they can get counseling and spiritual healing. It is all around care for these women we are trying to provide unlike the abortion industry that only offers one types and nothing else.

 

[Alithis]

sure, YES ..give them an alternative and make sure they know it is there ... i was saying i fully agree with that .
methinks sometimes one can be so very passionate about a cause that they see any voice not as passionate ,as opposed .
but it is not so.
and you must never knock the prayer closet .
Jesus recommended it (yes yes faith without works im not leaving that out no sirree)
ref Reece Howells intercessor (book) who, while working 10 hours a day in the mines also prayed and fasted as led by the lord and at that time changed the law in India in regard to widows ... without ever stepping foot out of his small home town
BOTH are essential please do not think i meant anything else .

anyways was not my intention to debate ..keep up the good work

 

[Awaken4Christ]

My wife came close to an abortion. She had just gotten out of a very abusive relationship and we had gotten together online but I was still 800 miles a way at this point when she found out she was carrying his baby. This guy would beat her, and use to put sleeping pills in her food and drink so she would pass out he then would rape her. When she found out she was pregnant she let him know. He took off, so there she was with her oldest son being evicted from her house with a baby on the way all alone. We talked on the phone and she told me, I was liberal back then I told her it had to be her choice what to do, but I would stay either way. She chose to have the baby but thought about adoption. It turns out that baby brought us together, she lost her house and was staying with her ex step dad. I could not help from 800 miles, so i packed a suit case jumped on a plane and moved up here. We stayed in a hotel at first I got a job fast and she was working, A lot happen, but when she talked about adoption I said no, I would raise Him as my own. The bio dad was no where to be found. She had the baby right at the time I got us a place to live. Then the bio dad family pop up and tried taking the baby. We fought them for years. It was enough time for me to raise that boy to a toddler. Then we decide to let the bio dad mom take care of him for a few because we fell on hard times and could not. He is 6 now and has everything he ask for. Bio dad is back so we have to deal with him, but Brayden is happy and very Loved. I could not imagine life with out him. I was there when he was born and when he came out I never new i could love another person so much. Choosing life is not just choosing life it is making a family. In recent years i heard a doc speak about what goes on in an abortion, so I am now completely against it. I trust God instead of what society says. I thank God for help me through it and making us do what was right when we did not know. Both our boys are great and we love them so much. God is Good.

So I think it should be outlawed.

That is quite a touching story brother. I am a pro-lifer myself and In my opinion a women should be able to choose....However WHEN she can Choose is what is important. A women makes the choice whether or not to conceive. A women's choice whether or not to have a baby is the same choice of having sex. There is no such thing as "sex with no strings attached"

For a time I wondered about whether a women was impregnated via rape, if it would justify an abortion. But now I can affirm that the condition of pregnancy in the case of rape involves two victims. The unborn child who will be absent of a natural father and the mother who was brutally assaulted. IMO rape put them both in this position, If she wants to give it up for adoption its understandable.

Abortion is age discrimination in my opinion. People are dehumanized all the time even when the victims can cry out. Imagine how much easier it is to terminate a life that can't cry out, that can't defend itself. That is why we need to be guardians to these silent victims.

But don't expect to find a solution other than from the power of God. I hate to speak on politics but BOTH PARTIES are farrrrrrr below the Kingdom of God. My theory is that once Christians wake up then they will be useless as a right-wing political tool, then.... then the true Persecution of Christians will begin.

 

[98cwitr]

Simply put; abortion is selfish. If you take your pants off you should be fully ready to accept the responsibility. In my youth I contradicted this, but now I stand for it and hope to be a good Dad.

 

[twob4me]

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[Wearecommandedtojudge]

I am not being sarcastic or cheeky. I was really planning on doing this. I have a friend I have had since kindergarden who is a Nazi and he believes he is Christian. I was thinking about doing a thread about the heresy of the "Christian Identity" movement and people like James Wickstrom because I think these people who call themselves "Nazi Christians" and their bologna needs to be confronted. (Due a google search. Wickstrom hates jews and teaches that jews are decended from satan, that black people are animals, that only whites are human and that they are the true Hebrews, and that only white people can be saved.)

Can one be a racist and a Christian?

Can one be a Nazi and a Christian?

I suppose one can be pro-babymurder and Christian if one dose not truly know what abortion is but can one be a Nazi and a Christian. I never said one can't support abortion (which is the murder of little children) and be Christian.

This friend is in higher esteem in my eyes then those I know who support the murder of innocent little babies. Although my constant preaching against racism has almost ended are friendship many times he is far more tolerant and open minded then any liberal I have ever met. Not that one cannot be a liberal and a Christian. One can.

BTW I'm part Jewish. This friend dose not know this. Like I said he has almost ended are friendship over my preaching...(although this was in the past) What if I told him I'm a Jew? Would he end the friendship? I have been making progress. He has been far more tolerant of my beliefs then any of my pro-babymurder family members have.