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Christ did not fail in his mission.
- Thread starter Neostarwcc
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Interestingly, out of all the teeming multitudes of animals only two (male and female) of each unclean species entered the ark. Does that mean that only those two were somehow clever enough to enter the ark and the rest were unrepentant/ignorant/unwilling than those that did?
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Aaron112
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Why do you seem so concerned about the "teeming multitudes of animals" , any 'extra' getting in the ark,
but
not about the multitudes of humans , men, women and children and babies, who did not get in the ark ?
In any case, whoever or whatever got in the ark would be saved from the flood, right ?
p.s. the animals did not 'repent', they obeyed.
p.p.s. I don't remember it written that Noah or his family, those who got on the ark and were saved, repented ?
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Because you said, "the animals did not 'repent', they obeyed"
I am curious as to whether you believe that the animals consciously or unconsciously obeyed.
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To be saved you have to at some time been lost even if that is at the beginning. of time. So what is the difference between the lost that will be saved and the lost that will remain lost when they were both lost?
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Aaron112
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If your pet dog is watching eagerly your eyes, waiting for you to pet him or do something,
and you tell him to sit, is he conscious or unconscious ?
If you pet dog is drugged, unconscious, breathing and alive but not awake, not alert, not looking nor able to look at anything,
and you tell him to sit, he won't respond at all, will he ?
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- Nov 21, 2008
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God says -- "God is not partial" Rom 2:11 - and God is incapable of lying
God says - "God is not WILLING that any should perish" 2 Peter 3:9 - and God does not lie
God says -- Christ "is the atoning sacrifice for our sins and NOT for our sins only but for the sins of the whole world" 1 John 2:2 and God cannot lie
God never downsized the term "whole world" so that he can then say "the whole world will be saved" -- because God does not lie
God says "God sent His Son to be the Savior of the world" 1 John 4:14 - and God does not lie.
God says Jesus "came to His OWN and His OWN - received Him not" John 1:11 -- and God cannot lie
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- Nov 21, 2008
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"Arbitrary selection" is the process of selecting one to be saved and another lost - having nothing at all to do with the person being selected.
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Exactly - both are lost -- one becomes saved and the other does not.
Is 5:4 "what MORE could I have done than that which I have already done?! - Why then when I expected good fruit did my people produce bad fruit?"
God says He is not to blame for the ones that reject His gospel
He sovereignly and supernaturally "Draws ALL MANKIND unto Him" John 12:32
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So, apparently only two of each unclean species of animals (male and female) decided to obey God and walk into the ark whereas all of the other multitudes of animals decided not to do it. Who asked them to obey? Assuredly it could not have been Noah as the vast majority of these animals were not his pets.
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Aaron112
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Look again in all Scripture. Is there any indication that the Creator told or asked or led any animals to the Ark besides the ones who arrived and got on the Ark? /p.s. no/
Is there any indication anywhere in Scripture that the animals sinned ? Again, no.
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God saves the "whosoever" of their own very limited autonomous free will choose to humbly accept God's unconditional undeserved Love (in the form of forgiveness) as pure undeserved charity. If this is not the deciding factor to God salvation, then it is arbitrary, but I would consider your alternative.
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Absolutely. However, the vast majority of animals were, and remain, unclean in God's sight. God is quite specific as to the reasons for their uncleanness and it does not have anything to do with sin on their part. These animals are born unclean and can never become clean. Thus, it is quite immaterial as to whether the pairs of animals on the ark ever had any ability to obey.
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It is not a knowledge issue, it is a heart issue. In the parables of the banquets, are you willing to accept or reject the invitation which is a huge draw. In the parable of the prodigal son you are like the older son so will you attend the party. There is no knowledge issue for nothing more could be said to get you to go, but it is a heart issue.
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