Chosen or not?

[dlamberth]

It's not like the eye example at all lol. It's binary by definition, no matter what low state it is.

By experience though, consciousness is a Verb. It's very alive, vibrant and full of life...our life and the life of everything else. There is no Binary about it.

 

[AskTheFamily]

By experience though, consciousness is a Verb. It's very alive, vibrant and full of life...our life and the life of everything else. There is no Binary about it.

IT's binary bro, it's either on or off no matter what level you put to it.

 

[Robban]

Sure you can use words like that, but language is to convey meaning. Therefore, scriptures mean things in a certain context, and by that context, no we aren't chosen lol.

The only way been picked as a people is we been entrusted to help the chosen ones to help humanity.

How are you taking "chosen"?

Are you seeing past the downtrodden, there are countless many today who never hear an uplifting word,
nothing to lift them, "Nah, I was born by accident"

No one is born by accident.

You are unique in as much as you have your own personality, we all are unique in that way.

If you feel compassion for someone a stranger,
and you help them in some way, that gives them hope,
dignity.
It was why you were chosen, just therefore, it may only happen once.

The one who is in such a down place, because that is what they have heard,

Need to hear they are also chosen.

In my faith there are no coincidences.

 

[Steve Petersen]

Nature shows evolution naturalism wise is impossible for many things like the first consciousness. It's irreducibly complex no matter what structure, so much so it can't be that a point leads to it from non state of that to the state by one or few mutations.

I know the eye is used as an example but it's not a good example. The eye is been debunked and never had proof. The example I used is a good one. There is other features in nature that can't have evolved, and there is some that can.

Emphasizing only on those that can evolve doesn't prove all structures are not irreducibly complex by design. Don't confuse that these structures can have various forms and all those can evolve as well.

But irreducibly complex design is a fact of nature of many structures in nature.

But to me nature proves evolution impossible as far as naturalism goes.

CB301: Eye complexity

 

[dlamberth]

IT's binary bro, it's either on or off no matter what level you put to it.

A dog has a level of consciousness that is different than that of Human Beings. A cat's level and type of consciousness is different than either. A fish has a different level and type of consciousness than any of those. And plants level and type of consciousness is even different still, yet plants know where the sun is. Consciousness not binary, it's evolved through the evolution of life. One could say that Consciousness IS the Life we see around us.

 

[AskTheFamily]

Again you aren't understanding the issue. Different levels of consciousness is not the issue.

It's the binary nature of it, that is non-state of it will never lead to a state of it naturalism wise.

 

[AskTheFamily]

How are you taking "chosen"?

Are you seeing past the downtrodden, there are countless many today who never hear an uplifting word,
nothing to lift them, "Nah, I was born by accident"

No one is born by accident.

You are unique in as much as you have your own personality, we all are unique in that way.

If you feel compassion for someone a stranger,
and you help them in some way, that gives them hope,
dignity.
It was why you were chosen, just therefore, it may only happen once.

The one who is in such a down place, because that is what they have heard,

Need to hear they are also chosen.

In my faith there are no coincidences.

Actually this system is very chaotic. People are born in some circumstances where it's not really in their favor. Some people are born in circumstances where they can help the world but don't.

It was not the one born oppressed was meant to be oppressed neither the one who is born well off meant to be born like that.

It's hard to see what God intends in all this, because, we take everything that happens from the system, to be what God intended.

As for the Prophets and chosen guiding Kings who are images of God, God tried them when his spirit was on the water as he did us, he chose them for a task while he let us to be more free in life, with less duty then them, but we need to help them when we recognize them is all.

We are left to form our purpose and meaning, it's not chosen by God.

Humans are not all that special either, God has treated us well, but if he pleases, he can destroy and replace us, and this is not a far off threat given what has happened to destroyed nations before, it can occur in a world stage.

The final saviour may be rejected by majority when God provides clear proofs to him, let's hope this is not the case.

Humans and Jinn are all created to know God so they can know and appreciate themselves, it appreciation God lies dignity of humans, and God wishes to bestow us honor so we appreciate God, others, and ourselves.

How and what job we choose, what type of help and task we choose, the leader and guide doesn't even tell us, but let's us choose that, but guides us in matters when we are ignorant.

But other things the choice is ours. It's the issues of fear and safety that we have to refer to the guides, other things like what we are going to do for a job or a living, is our personal choice.

As for our duties, there is also leeway, we have a duty to help God and humanity, but how we do so and in which manner there is a lot of freedom.

We choose what purpose and meaningful path we want. God doesn't choose for us.

What he does choose for us is our leaders and for that, creation has no choice to choose who to follow and then label them righteous by their desires.

It's for God to attribute purity to who he pleases by proving them high and exalted beyond doubt.

As for rest, even if we attain purity, it's not for us to claim, because we have no proof. And we aren't meant to show off in that sense nor become the focal point of attention and want to be obeyed, rather, it's for us to call to the guidance of God, his books, and the leaders appointed by him.

We are chosen as a community of believers only in the sense, we are tasked to help the appointed majestic kings and noble leaders appointed by God, spread only what we know of truth attributed to them, and seek out knowledge, and never fail to prefer them over ourselves.

And the book of God, we are to refer everything back to it, and the Sunnah, everything must be proven by the Sunnah.

There is no lee way for us to form our opinions out of desires and get people to follow what we wish, saying this is forbidden and this is allowed. This is the height of evil and God condemns both those who do so and those who idolize and follow such people. Wallah - the worse humans are those who feel they are chosen to lead and let people praise them as pure with no proof from God and worse off is those who without a book from God wish to lead humans as if they are enlightened and call people to center around them, while they conjecture upon conjecture. Wallah - leadership, so many humans feel special, so claim it.

Wallah - it's for his chosen leaders and guides, this trust - if anything were to carry it other then God's chosen, it would be the earth and heavens, but even they refused fearing the task and recognizing the problem of delegation, and yet humans carry it ignorantly and unjustly.

 

[dlamberth]

Again you aren't understanding the issue. Different levels of consciousness is not the issue.

Actually, your not understanding the issue. Consciousness evolved...just as everything else here has evolved. It's part of life. It doesn't just disappear. It has levels and types and is pretty infinite in it's forms. Where you tie it to a form, such as you or I, I'm reaching out to the consciousness of life itself.

It's the binary nature of it, that is non-state of it will never lead to a state of it naturalism wise.

I don't know what you mean by "state of it naturalism wise".

 

[Robban]

Actually this system is very chaotic. People are born in some circumstances where it's not really in their favor. Some people are born in circumstances where they can help the world but don't.

It was not the one born oppressed was meant to be oppressed neither the one who is born well off meant to be born like that.

It's hard to see what God intends in all this, because, we take everything that happens from the system, to be what God intended.

As for the Prophets and chosen guiding Kings who are images of God, God tried them when his spirit was on the water as he did us, he chose them for a task while he let us to be more free in life, with less duty then them, but we need to help them when we recognize them is all.

We are left to form our purpose and meaning, it's not chosen by God.

Humans are not all that special either, God has treated us well, but if he pleases, he can destroy and replace us, and this is not a far off threat given what has happened to destroyed nations before, it can occur in a world stage.

The final saviour may be rejected by majority when God provides clear proofs to him, let's hope this is not the case.

Humans and Jinn are all created to know God so they can know and appreciate themselves, it appreciation God lies dignity of humans, and God wishes to bestow us honor so we appreciate God, others, and ourselves.

How and what job we choose, what type of help and task we choose, the leader and guide doesn't even tell us, but let's us choose that, but guides us in matters when we are ignorant.

But other things the choice is ours. It's the issues of fear and safety that we have to refer to the guides, other things like what we are going to do for a job or a living, is our personal choice.

As for our duties, there is also leeway, we have a duty to help God and humanity, but how we do so and in which manner there is a lot of freedom.

We choose what purpose and meaningful path we want. God doesn't choose for us.

What he does choose for us is our leaders and for that, creation has no choice to choose who to follow and then label them righteous by their desires.

It's for God to attribute purity to who he pleases by proving them high and exalted beyond doubt.

As for rest, even if we attain purity, it's not for us to claim, because we have no proof. And we aren't meant to show off in that sense nor become the focal point of attention and want to be obeyed, rather, it's for us to call to the guidance of God, his books, and the leaders appointed by him.

We are chosen as a community of believers only in the sense, we are tasked to help the appointed majestic kings and noble leaders appointed by God, spread only what we know of truth attributed to them, and seek out knowledge, and never fail to prefer them over ourselves.

And the book of God, we are to refer everything back to it, and the Sunnah, everything must be proven by the Sunnah.

There is no lee way for us to form our opinions out of desires and get people to follow what we wish, saying this is forbidden and this is allowed. This is the height of evil and God condemns both those who do so and those who idolize and follow such people. Wallah - the worse humans are those who feel they are chosen to lead and let people praise them as pure with no proof from God and worse off is those who without a book from God wish to lead humans as if they are enlightened and call people to center around them, while they conjecture upon conjecture. Wallah - leadership, so many humans feel special, so claim it.

Wallah - it's for his chosen leaders and guides, this trust - if anything were to carry it other then God's chosen, it would be the earth and heavens, but even they refused fearing the task and recognizing the problem of delegation, and yet humans carry it ignorantly and unjustly.

You been keeping company with them there pope again.

 

[AskTheFamily]

I am talking naturalism wise (meaning spirits/supernatural doesn't exist), it could not have been that there was no consciousness then consciousness through the process of evolution naturalism wise.

 

[juvenissun]

What kind of question is that?

Are we not all chosen,
for something?

No. We are chosen for ONE thing. Other things are optional.

 

[Robban]

[

No. We are chosen for ONE thing. Other things are optional.

What is this one thing?

 

[Robban]

No. We are chosen for ONE thing. Other things are optional.

When laying a jigsaw puzzle, I choose one piece out of the pile, it will only fit in it,s right place, no options, however much I would like it to be so.

 

[dlamberth]

When laying a jigsaw puzzle, I choose one piece out of the pile, it will only fit in it,s right place, no options, however much I would like it to be so.

I think it's a very different world then working with real living things. I just don't see life as a jigsaw puzzle. Life is just too full of the intermingling of "Life" to be a jigsaw puzzle. A jigsaw puzzle works well in the man Created world, but it's a different thing in the real world of Life around us.

When laying out my vegetable garden each year, everything fits where ever I place the seeds and plants. There are a lots and lots of options to choose from. There is no right place other than what feels right at the moment. The only criteria I try to follow is to not plant the same vegetable in the same place each year. And I even fudge on that one every now and than.

 

[dlamberth]

I am talking naturalism wise (meaning spirits/supernatural doesn't exist), it could not have been that there was no consciousness then consciousness through the process of evolution naturalism wise.

How would you describe the consciousness of God?

 

[Robban]

I think it's a very different world then working with real living things. I just don't see life as a jigsaw puzzle. Life is just too full of the intermingling of "Life" to be a jigsaw puzzle. A jigsaw puzzle works well in the man Created world, but it's a different thing in the real world of Life around us.

When laying out my vegetable garden each year, everything fits where ever I place the seeds and plants. There are a lots and lots of options to choose from. There is no right place other than what feels right at the moment. The only criteria I try to follow is to not plant the same vegetable in the same place each year. And I even fudge on that one every now and than.

We are not vegetables

 

[dlamberth]

We are not vegetables

True, but like vegetables we are life and life is not a nicely cut jigsaw puzzle in little forms that fit into only a single place.

 

[Robban]

True, but like vegetables we are life and life is not a nicely cut jigsaw puzzle in little forms that fit into only a single place.

It is not a one size fits all, either.

There has gone inflation in the worth of human life.

Not all can be consert pianists,
Not all want to be the boiler in the basement.

And yet together they contribute to harmony.

The pianist giving giving a consert and the boiler puffing away in the basement,
keeping all in the house warm.

If they were to switch places how would that work out.

Nevertheless they were chosen,

"You can be whatever you want."

"Yeah, go for it! and never mind how many corpses you have to climb over."

 

[juvenissun]

[


What is this one thing?

To become useful to God.

 

[juvenissun]

When laying a jigsaw puzzle, I choose one piece out of the pile, it will only fit in it,s right place, no options, however much I would like it to be so.

I think I misunderstood you. I concede.