Children Getting Too Personal

[Mac6yver]

God willing if I don't die first If I get to live on my own I will have no television at my house.

television is full of depravity, sin and homosexuality WRAPPED IN A GLAMOROUS PACKAGE AND YOUR CHILDREN ARE BEING CORRUPTED BY IT!

I learned that in orthodox Jewish houses they have no televisions. I respect them highly for that and I admire their will power to resist the sinful temptations of the devil worshippers who control our mass media, and their tool which I call "the devil box"

Oh the drama....

 

[SqueezetheShaman]

God willing if I don't die first If I get to live on my own I will have no television at my house.

television is full of depravity, sin and homosexuality WRAPPED IN A GLAMOROUS PACKAGE AND YOUR CHILDREN ARE BEING CORRUPTED BY IT!

I learned that in orthodox Jewish houses they have no televisions. I respect them highly for that and I admire their will power to resist the sinful temptations of the devil worshippers who control our mass media, and their tool which I call "the devil box"

doctor, meet jhessel. jhessel, doc. I am sure you have a lot to talk about.

 

[Lillithspeak]

God willing if I don't die first If I get to live on my own I will have no television at my house.

television is full of depravity, sin and homosexuality WRAPPED IN A GLAMOROUS PACKAGE AND YOUR CHILDREN ARE BEING CORRUPTED BY IT!

I learned that in orthodox Jewish houses they have no televisions. I respect them highly for that and I admire their will power to resist the sinful temptations of the devil worshippers who control our mass media, and their tool which I call "the devil box"

And yet, you have a computer. Hmmmm.

 

[Lillithspeak]

That was a low blow, Lillith. I would think someone of your level of intelligence would be far above such petty and worthless insults. God bless you.

It's amazing to me how your categorize things. Petty and worthless insult, where was that exactly? I noted that after reading your post, everything I was thinking was proven true. So, had I said: I suspected that you learned everything steeped in a "Christian" viewpoint and that you were avoiding dealing with real life issues, would you still be saying, "petty and worthless insults"? Because that's exactly what I suspected and that's exactly what your post proved. And I quote:

] It's from the Christian perspective.

I also didn't have to face some of the unrealistic and pernicious social challenges the public schools impose on young people.

 

[Light in the Darkness]

I respect them highly for that and I admire their will power to resist the sinful temptations of the devil worshippers who control our mass media, and their tool which I call "the devil box".

After reading this, I think that we can safely assume that the Doc is beyond reasoning...

 

[Susan]

:topic:


::Mod hat on::

:rules:

[noflame]

This has to get back on topic, and the topic is not your fellow posters.

If it doesn't get back on topic, this thread is subject to trashing or closure. Thank you.

 

[msjones21]

It's amazing to me how your categorize things. Petty and worthless insult, where was that exactly? I noted that after reading your post, everything I was thinking was proven true. So, had I said: I suspected that you learned everything steeped in a "Christian" viewpoint and that you were avoiding dealing with real life issues, would you still be saying, "petty and worthless insults"? Because that's exactly what I suspected and that's exactly what your post proved. And I quote:

You made a snide remark as a way of saying I'm somehow mentally and socially inept because I was home-educated through a Christian correspondence program. My parents chose that curriculum for me. I was an atheist at the time. They never forced me, but it was one of the most highly reputable programs in the nation. It was more academically challenging than steeped in Christian values, and that was the main reason my parents chose the program. Just because I hold to certain viewpoints as an extension of my faith doesn't mean I'm ignorant or sheltered. I lived in "the world". It's not that great. You should also keep in mind I was only home schooled the latter part of my freshman year through graduation. It's not as if I had zero exposure to the public school system. The only reasons people knock home education is because A) They don't understand it and B) They're jealous they can't homeschool their children or that someone was homeschooled and they wish they had been. There has been no conclusive evidence, other than what some people may think they see homeschooled children act like, that homeschooling causes irrepairable damage to the child's ability to socialize. But hey, I think everyone believes they're the leading authority on what makes a child "normal". I knew a guy who would boldly tout the notion that unless a boy goes into the military or a girl moves thousands of miles away from home immediately after graduation, they'll never be prepared for life's challenges. I knew another couple who was convinced that all girls must be Girl Scouts and all boys must play some form of little league sports in order to be well-rounded and fine-tune the ability to relate to other children.

 

[ThePhoenix]

Drug use isn't as dangerous as ignorance/stupidity, and they don't HAVE to go hand in hand.

There's lots of drug use at my school too, but I don't believe that to be a risk for the future of America, no. I believe that the biggest risk for America's future (aside from Mr. Bush) is how extremely ignorant these kids I go to school with are. Many of whom don't do drugs, many of whom don't fornicate. Fornication and drug use doesn't endanger society NEARLY as much as ignorant people do. I don't mean ignorance for the people who are less educated because of lack of experience, but ignorant because they just don't care to know anything besides trucks and cracking simple jokes.

So if you want your child to grow up a decent person, teach him the power of knowledge and give him a thirst for it, and raise him with morals. All you can honestly do for your kid is teach him between right and wrong, give him a solid foundation of life buolt upon compassion, sympathy, and integrity, and he/she will be fine.

Sheltering your child will just plant a seed of curiosity which has a good chance of sprouting once they move out of the house. I wonder how many people were sheltered as children, and then once they got out into the real world particiapted in all the things they never had a chance to experience as a teenager.

But what do I know, I'm only 17.

Um, hello, I'm not that much older then you. I've been homeschooled. And guess what, that bit about homeschoolers being unprepared for the real world? A myth. The schools just need to claim some justification for their test scores, which are lower then homeschoolers' (which is absurdly embarressing, since the 2nd biggest reason for homeschooling, behind only religion is "learning disabilities" ).

 

[msjones21]

That is true, Phoenix. Homeschoolers score higher on the GED, SAT, ACT, and other standardized tests than students in the public school system. Someone accused me of insulting public educators. I would think the fact that homeschoolers shine academically would be the insult to their ability to teach, not the fact that I feel I was better educated in the home than in a classroom.

 

[ThePhoenix]

Edit: Wierdness.

 

[Firscherscherling]

That is true, Phoenix. Homeschoolers score higher on the GED, SAT, ACT, and other standardized tests than students in the public school system. Someone accused me of insulting public educators. I would think the fact that homeschoolers shine academically would be the insult to their ability to teach, not the fact that I feel I was better educated in the home than in a classroom.

That was me. And here is the insult

QUOTE: Really? What exactly is the quality of a child's public education? One teacher per forty or more children to a classroom. Students get advanced to the next grade level simlpy because there isn't enough room to hold them back. Did you know that many students who get accepted into public colleges have lower than a sixth grade reading comprehension level? Anyone can be a teacher these days. Overcrowding in the public schools means students are the ones who lose. END QUOTE

Major sweeping generalizations about teachers, schools and the public education system as a whole. Now, I don't have a problem with home schooling when it is done well. As with anything else, there are good home schoolers and there are bad ones. But l have a real problem with statements comparing things like home-school test scores with those in public school.

Please provide the following info because if you don't have it, your test scores are meaningless:

How many kids in home schooling live in households with two working parents?
On a related issue, how many are considered poor?
How many have a language other than english as their primary language?
How many come from homes that would be considered dysfunctional?
How many come from single parent households?

You see, public school is not a parent. The product a school can produce is no better than the effort put in by the parent or the ability of that parent to be intimately involved in their child's education. Poor folks, single parents, and other demographics are at an inherent disadvantage when it comes to raising kids. And other parents just don't give a ****. And you know what, I'd wager that the majority of kids in home schooling have at least one parent with the time, money, ability and desire to be very supportive. And I'd also wager you could make a similar comparison to private schools.

Who gets the underpriveledged kids? Public school. How about we stop blaming the schools and find some solutions to the problem of how to help the families who really need us and their children?

 

[ThePhoenix]

On your question - no one knows. Average income among homeschoolers is 50k, and almost all come from two parent households. Homeschoolers can and do recieve an education quite comperable to the best private schools. And having been in both I find it hard to blame the teachers. There's a few good ones, and a few bad ones, and many mediocre ones. But in the end you teach yourself.

But guess what? Even kids with parents who have the time, money, ability and desire to be very supportive do better homeschooling then in public schools. And yes, I can blame the public schools. They simply do not work as well as they can or should. Even you admit this when you call for solutions to the problem. And honestly, homeschooling is a solution. It reduces class size and increases the teacher's ability to help those in need. So there.

P.S. Your post was irrelevent to my post. Mine stated that homechooling was superior. Yours stated that we need to find a way to help poor kids. Unrelated topics.

 

[Firscherscherling]

On your question - no one knows. Average income among homeschoolers is 50k, and almost all come from two parent households. Homeschoolers can and do recieve an education quite comperable to the best private schools. And having been in both I find it hard to blame the teachers. There's a few good ones, and a few bad ones, and many mediocre ones. But in the end you teach yourself.

But guess what? Even kids with parents who have the time, money, ability and desire to be very supportive do better homeschooling then in public schools. And yes, I can blame the public schools. They simply do not work as well as they can or should. Even you admit this when you call for solutions to the problem. And honestly, homeschooling is a solution. It reduces class size and increases the teacher's ability to help those in need. So there.

P.S. Your post was irrelevent to my post. Mine stated that homechooling was superior. Yours stated that we need to find a way to help poor kids. Unrelated topics.

Actually, my post covered a number of topics. First and foremost it was to call you on the carpet for the BS assertion that homeschooling is inherently better. Why? Because your standard of comparison is totally irrelevant because it fails to take into account anything other than test scores.

The fact that I said to stop your belly aching and finger pointing and try to do something to help it is just gravy.

Please explain how your home schooling helps poor working parents who can't home school. The idea that pulling more priveledged kids out to make room for the poor is just so much made-up garbage. Have you or your parents ever offered to assist anyone with their homework or learning? (didn't think so)

And a reality check for you. Nothing works as well as it could. And I'd put any of my daughter's teachers up against the average parent with no educational training any day of the week.

 

[ThePhoenix]

Actually, my post covered a number of topics. First and foremost it was to call you on the carpet for the BS assertion that homeschooling is inherently better. Why? Because your standard of comparison is totally irrelevant because it fails to take into account anything other than test scores.

Few signifigant things: The children who are taught by a parent who did not finish high school score 55 percentage points higher then children with a parent who did not finish high school who are in the school system.
Check page 12 of this link for further details. Until you have refuted the researchers who say that homeschooling is a way to overcome a poor educational background your point is null.
http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/admin/books/files/homeschool.pdf

Who homeschools: The research
http://www.ncspe.org/publications_files/932_OP62_v2.pdf
http://epaa.asu.edu/epaa/v10n26.html

The fact that I said to stop your belly aching and finger pointing and try to do something to help it is just gravy.

Please explain how your home schooling helps poor working parents who can't home school. The idea that pulling more priveledged kids out to make room for the poor is just so much made-up garbage. Have you or your parents ever offered to assist anyone with their homework or learning? (didn't think so)

And a reality check for you. Nothing works as well as it could. And I'd put any of my daughter's teachers up against the average parent with no educational training any day of the week.

Actually I did help tutor other homeschoolers in math, so I DO THINK SO!

Reality check for you: My seventh grade science teacher was unsure if magnetic fields stopped radiation. This is high school physics. So I'd put me or my mom up against your daughter's teachers. And interestingly the first study I cited showed negligable improvement in test scores if the homeschooling parent had an educational degree.

 

[SqueezetheShaman]

The only reasons people knock home education is because A) They don't understand it and B) They're jealous they can't homeschool their children or that someone was homeschooled and they wish they had been.

You may be right that we misunderstand it, but don't fool yourself into believing choice B. I would NEVER pick homseschooling over public or private school. If I am worried about my son's education, I will supplement them at home. I would never want to risk them turning out like the people we know of who were homeschooled.

 

[ThePhoenix]

You may be right that we misunderstand it, but don't fool yourself into believing choice B. I would NEVER pick homseschooling over public or private school. If I am worried about my son's education, I will supplement them at home. I would never want to risk them turning out like the people we know of who were homeschooled.

And if I ever have kids I don't want them to turn out like people I know who went to school.

 

[SqueezetheShaman]

And if I ever have kids I don't want them to turn out like people I know who went to school.

I was adressing the silly jealousy comment, not requiring you guys to agree that our choices are better.

 

[Nick_Loves_Abba]

If you raise your kid right, he will be fine in life no matter where he goes to schoo. So if your child becomes a drug induced sex fiend during high school, it's the parents fault for not raising the child properly, not the school. The Public School system wasn't made to raise your kids, you were, it's there job to educate, and they do there job. Just because there's lots of bad parents in the world doesn't discredit the effectiveness of the public school system. yes the system is flawed, but it does work.

Raise your kid right, and then once you expose him to the elements he will know how NOT to turn out...

 

[msjones21]

You may be right that we misunderstand it, but don't fool yourself into believing choice B. I would NEVER pick homseschooling over public or private school. If I am worried about my son's education, I will supplement them at home. I would never want to risk them turning out like the people we know of who were homeschooled.

That's all fine and good, but you can't deny that jealousy may be a factor in some people's vehement opposition to homeschooling. Also I should add that most people who oppose homeschooling are always on watch when meeting children who are homeschooled. It is human nature to hunt for the negative qualities. If you meet a family who you know homeschools their children you're going to instinctively be looking for the first sign of introversion or slip-up when interacting with adults or other children. First time you witness such behavior, instead of thinking it could perhaps just be the way that child is, you're going to place the blame on homeschooling. I'm not saying there aren't any children out there who are the product of over-sheltering or homeschooling (the two don't always go hand in hand). My point is that no one can accuse me of making sweeping generalizations and broad assumptions about public school when most of you responding to this thread have been guilty of the same towards homeschooling and even private education to an extent.

 

[Mr.Pious]

Homeschooling takes your children out of social events. It might give them terrible social skills, but makes it hard to meet friends outside of your neighborhood, and to ever have any friends. It also tends to make children naive.