CHECK THIS OUT: 666 IS REAL & PASTORS ARE PROMOTING IT!!! (Part 1)

[Endtime Survivors]

The problem was that they didn't prepare because they stopped expecting the bridegroom. All throughout scripture we are told to be prepared and watching...so here is my question for you...given scripture tells us to be prepared and watching and given that prophecy is written so that we will be watchful and ready, why exactly is your objection to me saying that we should be prepared and watching?

I think the idea of "watching and preparation" is pretty confusing for most of us, because it approaches spirituality in a practical way. What does it mean to prepare? Prepare for what? Prepare how? I think, for those who do not see the Mark as a choice they will need to make between dependence on the monetary system (i.e. buying/selling) and dependence on God' provision, the idea of preparing becomes a vague spiritual concept with very little practicality to show for it.

 

[Endtime Survivors]

Why is everyone stuck on this idea that "buying and selling" involves money?

Because money is what people use to buy and sell. Unless, you want to get into a hyper-spiritualized explanation which ends up suggesting that human don't really have a problem with dependence on materialism which the Beast will attempt to exploit in an effort to turn people away from God's kingdom of love and sharing by keeping them, instead, focused on demanding payment for their service to one another.

 

[Endtime Survivors]

Jesus counsels us to buy from him pure gold refined in the fire. Is Jesus concerned with money?

Yeah, he is, especially when it comes to our relationship to and dependence on it.

LK 16:13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

LK 16:14 And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.

Luke 12:15-34 us also all about our relationship to money and the things money can buy. In fact, there are heaps of teachings all throughout the gospels and the epistles about our relationship to materialism.

 

[I Witness]

Authors of confusion.

But thanks be to God that he sent his Son-the author and perfector of faith.

 

[John Hyperspace]

You are right that we have different interpretations of what it means to spiritually discern the meaning behind the prophecy. I don't disagree that there is a powerful spiritual meaning behind the prophecy, but there is also a clear overlap with the physical. Just as Jesus asked, "what does it profit a person to gain the whole world and lose their soul" so too the prophecy suggests that people will choose the worldly system of buying and selling for their daily bread instead of depending on God's system of love and sharing.

I don't mean to bring this up again, if you've already replied. I may be missing the reply in my alerts. But, did you yet comment on the understanding of the "seal of God" which is "in the forehead": Revelation 7:3, Revelation 9:4 as well as, Revelation 22:4 where "His name" is "in their forehead"?

Is the "mark" the only thing in the Revelation "in the forehead" that you understand literally? Or do you also understand both the "seal" and "name" as being literally in the forehead, as well? If so, what do you think the "seal" is, as I would like to keep a watch to be sure to get that in my forehead.

Again, apologies if I've missed this prior.

 

[razzelflabben]

I think the idea of "watching and preparation" is pretty confusing for most of us, because it approaches spirituality in a practical way. What does it mean to prepare? Prepare for what? Prepare how? I think, for those who do not see the Mark as a choice they will need to make between dependence on the monetary system (i.e. buying/selling) and dependence on God' provision, the idea of preparing becomes a vague spiritual concept with very little practicality to show for it.

Actually the idea of preparing is throughout scripture. It means to keep our garments without spot or wrinkle so that we remain clean or washed by the Lamb. IOW's to be without sin. That means to actually practice being without sin as well as confessing and repenting when we do sin. It boggles my mind that no one would understand or know that, it's basic teaching in scripture.

 

[Endtime Survivors]

Authors of confusion.

LK 16:14 And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.

 

[razzelflabben]

I think the idea of "watching and preparation" is pretty confusing for most of us, because it approaches spirituality in a practical way. What does it mean to prepare? Prepare for what? Prepare how? I think, for those who do not see the Mark as a choice they will need to make between dependence on the monetary system (i.e. buying/selling) and dependence on God' provision, the idea of preparing becomes a vague spiritual concept with very little practicality to show for it.

maybe this goes back to the question posed in the OP video about what is or better stated is not being taught in the church today

 

[Endtime Survivors]

I don't mean to bring this up again, if you've already replied. I may be missing the reply in my alerts. But, did you yet comment on the understanding of the "seal of God" which is "in the forehead": Revelation 7:3, Revelation 9:4 as well as, Revelation 22:4 where "His name" is "in their forehead"?

Is the "mark" the only thing in the Revelation "in the forehead" that you understand literally? Or do you also understand both the "seal" and "name" as being literally in the forehead, as well? If so, what do you think the "seal" is, as I would like to keep a watch to be sure to get that in my forehead.

Again, apologies if I've missed this prior.

Hi John. That's some diplomacy right there!

Both the seal of God and the Mark of the Beast have aspects where the spiritual and the physical overlap. One of the most inspiring attributes of hte 144k who are sealed is that they "follow the lamb anywhere he goes". So, where Jesus says, "you can't work for God and money at the same time" and "don't allow worry about food and clothing stop you from seeking my kingdom first" and " all the world chases after these material things, but you should not be like them" the 144k listen. Instead of continuing to participate in the worldly system of wages, they become "born again" and start living life by a new set of values where love becomes the motivation for why they work.

The Mark of the Beast is opposite to this. It is the counterfeit of God's Mark. Instead of listening to Jesus and following him withersoever he goeth, the Mark encourages and manipulates our fear and greed, causing us to keep our attention focused on the worldly system of wages for love, which is why the Revelation also uses symbolic imagery of a prostitute and Bride. The bride doesn't need to be paid for her love, where as the prostitute may talk of love, but her real concern is buying/selling.

 

[Endtime Survivors]

maybe this goes back to the question posed in the OP video about what is or better stated is not being taught in the church today

Yup. I recently had a person tell me that he believed it was okay to take the Mark of the Beast if he was doing so to provide for his family; that a loving God would not possibly punish him for such a thing.

This person seems able to recognize that there is a problem, but rather than prepare for a life which is not dependent on the worldly system of buying/selling, it's easier to just pretend that good intentions will be enough to impress God.

I think listening to God takes a lot of practice. It's very easy to confuse our own thoughts with what may be instructions from God. I was doing some Bible study with friends a few weeks back and was impressed by a situation where God would speak directly with Moses because Moses had learned to actually listen, whereas with most other people he had to use parables, dreams, Godly counsel, circumstances, coincidences, miracles or whatever, because they had so many biases and barriers to hearing from him.

Part of hearing from God (and probably the most important part) is listening to Jesus' teachings and then doing our best to act on them. I can't really think of any better way to practically prepare for the Mark of the beast (something which is based on exploiting our greed/fear for/of the material) than listening to Jesus' teachings about how to deal with materialism.

Greed, fear, and poverty will always be bullies until we stand up to them. That's what Jesus' teachings lead to and when we do that, then the Mark of the Beast becomes so much less intimidating. So what if we can't buy or sell anymore? We will have God's help.

 

[razzelflabben]

Yup. I recently had a person tell me that he believed it was okay to take the Mark of the Beast if he was doing so to provide for his family; that a loving God would not possibly punish him for such a thing.

This person seems able to recognize that there is a problem, but rather than prepare for a life which is not dependent on the worldly system of buying/selling, it's easier to just pretend that good intentions will be enough to impress God.

It never ceases to amaze me how far people will go to justify their sins.

Know one man that went through so many hoops that he actually convinced himself that having an affair, running out on his wife and kids and then marrying his mistress means that he has a dynamic witness for Jesus. How people can become that deceived is beyond me...claiming that they are following the HS when they become that deceived is horrifying if you ask me. In fact, making that claim turns God not only into a liar but a whim, which most of us would agree He is NOT.

I think listening to God takes a lot of practice. It's very easy to confuse our own thoughts with what may be instructions from God. I was doing some Bible study with friends a few weeks back and was impressed by a situation where God would speak directly with Moses because Moses had learned to actually listen, whereas with most other people he had to use parables, dreams, Godly counsel, circumstances, coincidences, miracles or whatever, because they had so many biases and barriers to hearing from him.

One of my regular prayers is that God would teach me to listen and teach me to love. I guess it works pretty good, people call me all the time and ask me to listen because no one else seems to be. Even random people on the street will stop me to talk because I listen. scripture tells us to James 1:19 (HCSB) My dearly loved brothers, understand this: Everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak, and slow to anger....seems to me one of the places the church has failed to teach is in listening skills or communication skills in general and Satan is using that lack of teaching to reach people and turn them away from God. Just a thought for what it's worth.

Part of hearing from God (and probably the most important part) is listening to Jesus' teachings and then doing our best to act on them. I can't really think of any better way to practically prepare for the Mark of the beast (something which is based on exploiting our greed/fear for/of the material) than listening to Jesus' teachings about how to deal with materialism.

I John 2:16...(NIV) For everything in the world--the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life--comes not from the Father but from the world....We are told to crucify the old man, a process that is very painful. I John tells us exactly what parts of our lives that includes. it is the things that draw out the lusts of beauty, the lusts of satisfying the fleshly desires and the pride that we hold so dearly onto as if it were life itself. When we get rid of these three areas of our lives, when we wash ourselves clean, crucify these three areas and allow God to rule over the holes these have left in our lives, we have done what God asks when He tells us to be prepared...we have listened to His voice and followed His commands and become the new creation He promised us to be.

Greed, fear, and poverty will always be bullies until we stand up to them. That's what Jesus' teachings lead to and when we do that, then the Mark of the Beast becomes so much less intimidating. So what if we can't buy or sell anymore? We will have God's help.

Amen...we recently had a young man come into our lives who was orphaned (in another country) around the age of 8 or 9. He was a street urchin for about 4 years give or take, starving to death. By the time he put himself in the orphanage to stay alive he faced torture every day in exchange for shelter and food. (Long story short, he was adopted by a christian family and brought to the US but that is off the point I want to make) To this day he does not hate God but Loves God for the wonders that He knows in His heart.

The point is this...way too many of us, especially those of us in the US think that hunger, homelessness, etc. are evil somehow. They are NOT. As someone who has known both, I will testify to the truth of this young man, not having food or shelter is terrible but it is not evil especially in the hands of the living God. What we need to learn is found in Matthew 4:4 and the time that we are talking about in this thread will if nothing else test our ability to understand, comprehend and live in the truth of Matthew 4:4 (HCSB) But He answered, "It is written: Man must not live on bread alone but on every word that comes from the mouth of God." In fact, this whole notion goes back to Deuteronomy 8:3 (NIV) He humbled you, causing you to hunger and then feeding you with manna, which neither you nor your ancestors had known, to teach you that man does not live on bread alone but on every word that comes from the mouth of the LORD...IOW's this is not a new concept to ask God's people to be hungry and yet we in the west fight it as if it were evil itself rather than simply learning from it as God wants us to do.

Just some thoughts for what it's worth.

 

[Sabbathkeeper&Wife]

RF, if ya go back when I first quoted you, you said you didn't know what the mark was and I thought this was a thread about the mark. I was trying to be genuinely helpful and throw you a few hints, thinking you may really want to know what it was. You act like it was an attack or that I was trying to single you out or something. You just happened to have the easiest, most available post with a quote on not knowing. Many seem not to know. I've tried to tell you it wasn't directed at you. That's about all I can tell you. I guess I should have just said- I know, then started another post with all my other writing. Again- sorry

 

[razzelflabben]

RF, if ya go back when I first quoted you, you said you didn't know what the mark was and I thought this was a thread about the mark. I was trying to be genuinely helpful and throw you a few hints, thinking you may really want to know what it was. You act like it was an attack or that I was trying to single you out or something. You just happened to have the easiest, most available post with a quote on not knowing. Many seem not to know. I've tried to tell you it wasn't directed at you. That's about all I can tell you. I guess I should have just said- I know, then started another post with all my other writing. Again- sorry

so your problem is that I say that it has not yet been revealed exactly what the mark of the beast is that is to say in detail...thus I trust God to reveal all things in His time...okay, that is progress, at least now I know what your issue with what I said is, again, personal or not.

I know that some think they know exactly what the mark is. The problem is that prophecy is NOT written for us to know everything but rather only that which God intends for us to know. I am totally comfortable with the idea that we don't yet know because it means that we have incentive to do what the purpose of the book wants us to do...be prepared and wait.

You see, from my perspective, if we pretend to know what we do not know, we remove the need for trusting God to reveal all things in His time. When we remove the need to trust God in this matter we risk being prepared and watchful and resort to being lazy in our faith and in our obedience to be praying and watching, prepared for His coming.

So, you see, I find not knowing every detail an exercise in faith, an exercise in faith that you want to remove from the table with declaration of knowing what scripture does not tell us.

AT least that is my perspective

 

[Endtime Survivors]

You see, from my perspective, if we pretend to know what we do not know, we remove the need for trusting God to reveal all things in His time. When we remove the need to trust God in this matter we risk being prepared and watchful and resort to being lazy in our faith and in our obedience to be praying and watching, prepared for His coming.

I think it could depend on what one means by "trusting God". For example, the guy who says he will take the Mark to feed his family does so on the basis that he "trusts" God will not punish him for his good intentions. At least, that's how he will rationalize it in his own mind.

There doesn't appear to be any law or rule which can accurately describe what it means to "trust God" for every person in every circumstance, which is why I think it is so important to keep going back to the teachings of Jesus as our guide. Jesus said that anyone who puts their family before God is not worthy of him, so, even though an argument like, "I just want to feed my family" sounds good on the surface, it's still missing the point of God's will if it means taking the Mark in order to achieve that goal.

 

[Endtime Survivors]

I know that some think they know exactly what the mark is. The problem is that prophecy is NOT written for us to know everything but rather only that which God intends for us to know. I am totally comfortable with the idea that we don't yet know because it means that we have incentive to do what the purpose of the book wants us to do...be prepared and wait.

I think it depends. Jesus talked about hungering and thirsting for righteousness. Some people seem to be more open to hearing uncomfortable truths than others. I think the best strategy for understanding more of prophecy is to keep going back to the teachings of Jesus as the reference point and to keep an open mind.

 

[Endtime Survivors]

I thought this was a thread about the mark.

You are right. It is a thread about the Mark. Thanks for sharing your perspective. I think earlier, your main point about the Mark was that it's something which was relevant mostly to the Roman era, and not to our time. Is that right?

 

[Straightshot]

Those that take the mark will be the ones that desire to identify with Satan's beast

Revelation
14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Those who follow and worship the beast as a god will attempt to prevent those who refuse from ordinary buying and selling during the wiles of the tribulation period

Revelation
13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

The number of Abaddon will be the number of his name and men that worship him will display his number

There is no biblical reference that describes the mark as a microchip, and displaying the number will be by choice and not something made a mandatory routine procedure as suggested by the video

 

[razzelflabben]

I think it could depend on what one means by "trusting God". For example, the guy who says he will take the Mark to feed his family does so on the basis that he "trusts" God will not punish him for his good intentions. At least, that's how he will rationalize it in his own mind.

justification sure, but that would go against what scripture directly says and in the case of really trusting God, His word stands far and above any justifications our minds can invent. Real trust takes God at His word and learns to rest in that word no matter what may come. That is what trust is, there is no other definition for it other than to manipulate the word into something it does not mean.

There doesn't appear to be any law or rule which can accurately describe what it means to "trust God" for every person in every circumstance, which is why I think it is so important to keep going back to the teachings of Jesus as our guide. Jesus said that anyone who puts their family before God is not worthy of him, so, even though an argument like, "I just want to feed my family" sounds good on the surface, it's still missing the point of God's will if it means taking the Mark in order to achieve that goal.

Proverbs 3:5-6
Trust in the Lord with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;
6 in all your ways submit to him,
and he will make your paths straight.

IOW's there is a definition for trust and it isn't to justify disobedience.

 

[razzelflabben]

I think it depends. Jesus talked about hungering and thirsting for righteousness. Some people seem to be more open to hearing uncomfortable truths than others. I think the best strategy for understanding more of prophecy is to keep going back to the teachings of Jesus as the reference point and to keep an open mind.

when we go back to the teachings of Jesus, what do we find? I mentioned this some time ago...we are told over and over and over again to watch and be prepared, to stay awake and pray...oh, and just for the record, hungering and thirsting for righteousness is as we previously discussed, being prepared.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Those that take the mark will be the ones that desire to identify with Satan's beast

Wittingly and Unwittingly - already TODAY most people are going along with the 'system' (financial, wall street, stocks, bonds, credit cards, credit system, "credit score", ... church funding)

Those who follow and worship the beast as a god will attempt to prevent those who refuse from ordinary buying and selling

Wittingly and Unwittingly,
already happening for a long time (generations)....