Cheap Grace

[listed]

My concern is that you or others reading this thread might seek salvation by faith alone, and end up not justified at all. I don't really have to requote James, do I? Of course not.

Salvation by doing other things is salvation by works and Rom 6:23 says those wages are death.

 

[JustHisKid]

1. he defended Christ to the other thief
2. he acknowledged his sin
3. he asked for salvation even though he didn't understand it very well.

None of which are works. Christians repent and are born again. That's never considered a work. That is all God. God calls people and He saves them.

 

[JustHisKid]

Do you know that our faith is also developed and strengthened by our works? It's a question of which came first, the chicken or the egg.

I don't agree. Faith is not something you can strengthen. Faith is a gift that is given to you. The measure God gives you is the measure you have. God will teach us to trust Him through trials and you may feel like your faith is stronger, but that isn't faith. That is trust.

I went through a period of time where I had lost my faith. I was completely miserable. I felt I had lost something valuable, but what could I do? I just didn't believe.

Then you did not have faith. Again, it is a gift, not something you can conjure up by doing stuff.

Then I DID something. I acted like a Christian.

If you aren't saved, acting like a Christian is futile. You either are saved or you aren't.

 

[Meowzltov]

What does "faith alone" mean to you exactly? James is demonstrating that faith will produce works, period. If your life produces no fruit, you are likely just giving God lip service. That's not faith. That's the point. People live according to what they truly believe. That is the heart of the matter.

"Faith alone" means faith devoid of good works. It sounds like we are pretty much on the same page, although (as I've already written) I believe from experience that sometimes works comes first, and transforms your attitude, leading to faith.

 

[Meowzltov]

Salvation by doing other things is salvation by works and Rom 6:23 says those wages are death.

No, that's not necessarily true. You can do other things and it not be works alone, but faith+works as James teaches.

 

[Meowzltov]

Christians repent and are born again. That's never considered a work.

Repentance is a work. It is something we do ourselves, with the help of God's grace.

 

[Meowzltov]

If you aren't saved, acting like a Christian is futile. You either are saved or you aren't.

I had fallen from grace. OF COURSE I had no faith, that's what I just said. And as I wrote, acting like a Christian was NOT futile: it led me back to the Lord.

 

[Meowzltov]

Legalism, which is what you are promoting, produces two things; pride and guilt.

I'm promoting faith+works, which is what James promoted. NOT works ALONE, which I agree is legalism. And honestly, one can do good works and not have pride.

 

[Meowzltov]

By the way, there is no such thing as cheap grace. Grace doesn't cost you a thing.

Grace costs you your very life, which you give over to the Lord. That doesn't mean this sacrifice earns you grace.

 

[JustHisKid]

Grace costs you your very life, which you give over to the Lord. That doesn't mean this sacrifice earns you grace.

No, it doesn't cost YOU anything. Giving your life over to the Lord is GAIN, not LOSS. Giving your life to the Lord is not a sacrifice. If that is how you see it, you don't get it.

 

[JustHisKid]

I had fallen from grace. OF COURSE I had no faith, that's what I just said. And as I wrote, acting like a Christian was NOT futile: it led me back to the Lord.

Are you sure? It sounds to me like you finally repented and were saved, if you were. His burden is light, not heavy. If you feel like you are sacrificing something, you might want to check again. Salvation is a free gift that we do not in the least bit deserve and it is JOY to know Him, not burden.

 

[Meowzltov]

Giving your life to the Lord is not a sacrifice. If that is how you see it, you don't get it.

Romans 12:1 Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God--this is your true and proper worship.

 

[JustHisKid]

Romans 12:1 Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God--this is your true and proper worship.

Totally not the same thing in relation to what we are talking about.

 

[Meowzltov]

Are you sure? It sounds to me like you finally repented and were saved, if you were. His burden is light, not heavy. If you feel like you are sacrificing something, you might want to check again.

Yes, I'm sure. I had completely apostacized and become an agnostic. Or sometimes I believed in God, but believed he didn't care about humanity.

 

[Meowzltov]

Totally not the same thing in relation to what we are talking about.

It is exactly the same thing.

 

[JustHisKid]

Yes, I'm sure. I had completely apostacized and become an agnostic. Or sometimes I believed in God, but believed he didn't care about humanity.

So, what makes you believe you were saved before that if you were able to completely become a heathen?

 

[JustHisKid]

It is exactly the same thing.

No, it's not. Being a living "sacrifice" to the Lord comes at no cost to us, as you say it does.

 

[JustHisKid]

It is exactly the same thing.

Christians count it all gain, they don't think they have to give something up and that grace costs us something. It is free.
Matthew 10
8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.

 

[Meowzltov]

So, what makes you believe you were saved before that if you were able to completely become a heathen?

I knew Christ personally. I believed all the Christian beliefs, including at my baptism. I professed Jesus Christ. God worked in my life and answered prayers. When I would fall into sin and repent, I experienced God's ongoing grace.

 

[Meowzltov]

No, it's not. Being a living "sacrifice" to the Lord comes at no cost to us, as you say it does.

Let's see, should I believe you or scripture. Hmmmm.