Cheap Grace

[JustHisKid]

I knew Christ personally. I believed all the Christian beliefs, including at my baptism. I professed Jesus Christ. God worked in my life and answered prayers. When I would fall into sin and repent, I experienced God's ongoing grace.

That doesn't agree with what Christ Himself says. If you had never turned back to Him.. He would have said He NEVER knew you.

Matthew 7
22"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' 23"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

 

[JustHisKid]

Let's see, should I believe you or scripture. Hmmmm.

Always believe God's word over mine. I'm just saying that those who are a willing servant to the Lord do not do so begrudgingly. You have presented yourself as someone who has to give something up to serve the Lord.

Your argument also puts me in quite an awkward position. Now I do not know what I must do to be saved. What works must I do? I am so confused.

 

[Meowzltov]

You have presented yourself as someone who has to give something up to serve the Lord.

I give up my life, only to be given it back transformed, along with eternal life. Sounds like an awesome deal. No reason to begrudge it.

 

[Meowzltov]

Your argument also puts me in quite an awkward position. Now I do not know what I must do to be saved. What works must I do? I am so confused.

You have to repent.

 

[JustHisKid]

I give up my life, only to be given it back transformed, along with eternal life. Sounds like an awesome deal. No reason to begrudge it.

Exactly, so why do you say it is a sacrifice on your part?

 

[JustHisKid]

You have to repent.

I did that many years ago. You have presented a new requirement. Works. Tell me, what must I do to be saved?

 

[Meowzltov]

Exactly, so why do you say it is a sacrifice on your part?

Because scripture says it is.

 

[Meowzltov]

I did that many years ago. You have presented a new requirement. Works. Tell me, what must I do to be saved?

Repentance IS a work.

If you mean, what must you do to keep from falling away, the answer is live in obedience to God, depending upon his grace for help.

 

[JustHisKid]

Because scripture says it is.

But you present it in such a way that you are giving something up. That is not in line with Scripture.

 

[JustHisKid]

Repentance IS a work.

If you mean, what must you do to keep from falling away, the answer is live in obedience to God, depending upon his grace for help.

Repentance is not a work. I think you are confused as to what comprises a work. I see you are Catholic. I think your brethren would say (they have told me) that the works you must "do" in order to be saved are in fact, sacraments.

 

[Meowzltov]

But you present it in such a way that you are giving something up. That is not in line with Scripture.

I am. I'm just getting more back. But I do have to be willing to sacrifice the life I have without Christ. The caterpillar has to die in order to become a butterfly.

 

[Frogster]

Paul could have just as easily have written, "And if by grace, then it is no more of faith: otherwise grace is no more grace." Because ultimately it is God who saves us by his grace. It is ALL about grace. We don't earn it, not with our faith, and not with our works.

Now that we've got EARNING properly cleared up, it is still true that we are saved by grace THROUGH a working faith. The very fact that we can offer up a working faith is itself a work of grace.

In that context, it is still a working faith.

Now, my guess is that what I just said didn't fit into your boxes, and that blows your mind. So the odds are that you will change what I said, pretend that it's "earning grace" again, your favorite straw man (or windmill if you prefer) and you will go on tilting that windmill until the cows come home.

but the verse is clear, you can say Paul could have done this or that, but what does the verse actually say?

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

 

[Frogster]

It doesn't say faith alone. It says faith, and it says not works. but it never says faith alone. So we learn from this verse that faith is part of the pie, and works alone doesn't cut the cake. Boy those were tasty metaphors.

well gee, if i say the pie was baked, not boiled, it is baked alone!

 

[Frogster]

What works (of anything) did the thief cross have?

bugkiller

pefectamundo reply!

I asked others what works they did to help Jesus save them, but I got no reply....same ole same ole here

 

[Frogster]

You "proved" this? ROTFL you have a great sense of humor.

70 no more temple, no washings, all are now defiled, no day of atonement either, Lulav even said they are defiled in one of her posts.

 

[Meowzltov]

Repentance is not a work. I think you are confused as to what comprises a work. I see you are Catholic. I think your brethren would say (they have told me) that the works you must "do" in order to be saved are in fact, sacraments.

• Repentance is indeed a work. It's something that I do. God doesn't repent for me.
• Baptism is required by scripture unless it is impossible to do so. It is part of initial justification.
• Eucharist give grace for the journey; it is part of ongoing justification (sanctification)
• But the most significant work you do is repentance.

 

[Frogster]

First you need to know what Jesus was referring to as a yoke and what that meant at the time.

Yoke in ancient Biblical times

when Peter said WE, that would include him, and the fathers could not bear it in Acts 15,. that leaves little doubt that he used it in a negative derogatory manner, and James said not to burden or trouble with the Torah 2 times in Acts 2, those words are not complimentary.

 

[Meowzltov]

but the verse is clear, you can say Paul could have done this or that, but what does the verse actually say?

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

The verse simply means that grace is unearned. It does NOT say that we don't respond with good works.

 

[Frogster]

It doesn't say faith alone. It says faith, and it says not works. but it never says faith alone. So we learn from this verse that faith is part of the pie, and works alone doesn't cut the cake. Boy those were tasty metaphors.

well, can you please share with us what works you did to help God save you, I am curious, thanks!

 

[Meowzltov]

well gee, if i say the pie was baked, not boiled, it is baked alone!

It just means your analogy doesn't apply.