Cheap Grace

[Frogster]

Romans 3:20-24 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

20 Because by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified before him. For by the law is the knowledge of sin.

21 But now without the law the justice of God is made manifest, being witnessed by the law and the prophets.

22 Even the justice of God, by faith of Jesus Christ, unto all and upon all them that believe in him: for there is no distinction:

23 For all have sinned, and do need the glory of God.

24 Being justified freely by his grace, through the redemption, that is in Christ Jesus,

Preach it Jamester!

 

[SaintJoeNow]

Nowhere in the Bible is God's grace portrayed as freedom from obeying God. Cheap grace is not from God, it's an invention from our own flesh used to excuse ourselves from being obedient to God. He paid a terrible price to give us His grace, and by that price He owns us and deserves our highest honor by obeying Him no matter how much it costs us.
It cost Him far more to give us His grace than It will ever cost us to obey Him by His grace.

 

[Lulav]

Is John 1:17 a lie? It doesn't race never existed. Simple I don't deny the trinity on your closing statement.

bugkiller

Besides your first question I have no idea what you are saying.

For the law was given through Moses, but God's unfailing love and faithfulness came through Jesus Christ.

These are not in opposition.

 

[Lulav]

you are confusing acts of grace, that God always did, to the church under New cov grace, that grace did not come until after the cross.


Rom 5:21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

If they had new cov grace way back on the OT times, why did the prophets search for grace? Why look for something one has? lol!


1 Peter 1:10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets who prophesied about the grace that was to be yours searched and inquired carefully, 11 inquiring what person or time the Spirit of Christ in them was indicating when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the subsequent glories.

hehehehe..luv ya sis! You need to know there was a time, when the grace was hidden, i got text if you want me to prove it, frog.

Perhaps you can answer a straightforward question with a straightforward answer??

What does grace mean to you?

 

[Meowzltov]

Nowhere in the Bible is God's grace portrayed as freedom from obeying God

thank you!

 

[Lulav]

was Paul saying he had a stigmata?

I thought you were Paul's best bud. Yes that is exactly what Paul said.

Do you understand Greek?

Τοῦ λοιποῦ κόπους μοι μηδεὶς παρεχέτω· ἐγὼ γὰρ τὰ στίγματα (stigmata) τοῦ Ἰησοῦ ἐν τῷ σώματί μου βαστάζω.

 

[Lulav]

sorry, let the all knowing frog spell it out. In 70 AD titus leveled the temple. Jesus said it was coming, Hebrews 4 warns of it, no more Judaism just one church.

There ya go!

Didn't I just read a post of yours that said you don't boast?

Do you realize you just claimed to be G-d?

I would be real careful if I were you and seriously consider repenting.

"the all knowing frog"

all-knowing=adj godlike
Synonyms for all-knowing

• divine
• everlasting
• immortal
• infinite
• all-seeing

• boundless
• celestial
• deathless
• deific
• enduring

• eternal
• godly
• heavenly
• illimitable
• omnipotent

• omnipresent
• omniscient
• pervading

 

[Frogster]

Perhaps you can answer a straightforward question with a straightforward answer??

What does grace mean to you?

I quoted rom 5, and I am right, grace did not come until the gospel, new cov times. Again, would you like to debate the text, or just ask me questions?

 

[Frogster]

Didn't I just read a post of yours that said you don't boast?

Do you realize you just claimed to be G-d?

I would be real careful if I were you and seriously consider repenting.

"the all knowing frog"

all-knowing=adj godlike
Synonyms for all-knowing

• divine
• everlasting
• immortal
• infinite
• all-seeing

• boundless
• celestial
• deathless
• deific
• enduring

• eternal
• godly
• heavenly
• illimitable
• omnipotent

• omnipresent
• omniscient
• pervading

Ok, I don't need drama...., that scene is over!

 

[Frogster]

I thought you were Paul's best bud. Yes that is exactly what Paul said.

Do you understand Greek?

Τοῦ λοιποῦ κόπους μοι μηδεὶς παρεχέτω· ἐγὼ γὰρ τὰ στίγματα (stigmata) τοῦ Ἰησοῦ ἐν τῷ σώματί μου βαστάζω.

you know what I mean, it was not the type one normally thinks of, please. Did Paul have marks appear on his hands and feet as some in the Catholic faith teach? no, I simply meant scars...

Now, if you debated text with me, we would not have to have this stuff, throwing a wrench into the thread, trying to snag the frog with things like this.

 

[Frogster]

But the

Besides your first question I have no idea what you are saying.

For the law was given through Moses, but God's unfailing love and faithfulness came through Jesus Christ.

These are not in opposition.

but verse still is what it is, Grace came by Christ John 1:17. Rom 5

Why does it says "came" that is an arrival word, a time indicator.

17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

When did the grace manifest? At the appearing, and through the gospel. not from the law.

9 who saved us and called us to a a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began, 10 and which now has been manifested through the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,


These verse are chronological. The Gospel was not here until a certain time, he appeared, at a certain time.

 

[Frogster]

Besides your first question I have no idea what you are saying.

For the law was given through Moses, but God's unfailing love and faithfulness came through Jesus Christ.

These are not in opposition.

whose grace?

Acts 14:3 So they remained for a long time, speaking boldly for the Lord, who bore witness to the word of his grace, granting signs and wonders to be done by their hands. 4 But the people of the city were divided; some sided with the Jews and some with the apostles. 5 When an attempt was made by both Gentiles and Jews, with their rulers, to mistreat them and to stone them, 6 they learned of it and fled to Lystra and Derbe, cities of Lycaonia, and to the surrounding country, 7 and there they continued to preach the gospel.

When did it come? The gospel!

 

[Frogster]

duplicate

 

[Llewelyn Stevenson]

Just a question, Who says grace is free?

Read Ephesians 2:8 again and tell me what is actually free, or not of works?

Grace cost Christ his life. Do you honestly think I would not gladly repay? Why do we have martyrs for Christ? It is because they understand the true cost of grace. Certainly their works do not save them for that is of faith, which is the gift of God; but there is no price too much for the love they have received.

"I tell you the kingdom of heaven is like a treasure buried in a field. A man came and dug up the treasure. When he discovered its true worth he reburied it and spent everything he had to purchase the field."

That doesn't sound like cheap grace to me, but grace is worth everything I've got and so much more.

I tell you even the unsaved have grace available to them, but they have neither received nor purchased it yet.

I trust we will all see the great value of grace as Zacchaeus did who enthusiastically and gladly would pay all his goods for it. You don't believe me? Read the story.

 

[Llewelyn Stevenson]

We must be very careful when we view the word works in Ephesians 2.

When you see the first mention of works it is speaking of works of the flesh or self-righteous works, and salvation is not of those works because no one can be saved by works of the flesh or self-righteousness.

However there are works in Ephesians 2 that equate to Jesus' mention of works in John 3 where he speaks of those who come to the light because their works are wrought in God. Paul says we are created unto good works. These are not works that save us but they are the result of salvation. To be saved is to be born again and the born again need to live to show they have life in Christ Jesus.

Self-righteousness may look like the new righteousness but it is not new righteousness because it is done to appease the conscience for the assurance of salvation. Christ is our assurance of salvation and nothing our conscience can conjure.

 

[Steeno7]

Ahh, just the kind of post I was looking for, thank you. And so you understand this to mean that grace was not in existence before?

But Noah found grace in the eyes of the L-RD Genesis 6

Abraham found grace too
And said, My Lord, if now I have found grace in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:
4 Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree: Genesis 18

Lot found grace
18 And Lot said unto them, Oh, not so, my Lord: 19 Behold now, thy servant hath found grace in thy sight, and thou hast magnified thy mercy, which thou hast shewed unto me in saving my life Genesis 19

Joseph was given grace in the sight of his jailer by G-d

21 But the L-RD was with Joseph, and shewed him mercy, and gave him grace in the sight of the keeper of the prison

G-d did the same for the whole nation of Israel regarding the Egyptians

21 And I will give this people grace in the sight of the Egyptians: and it shall come to pass, that, when ye go, ye shall not go empty

Moses was given grace

12 And Moses said unto the L-RD, See, thou sayest unto me, Bring up this people: and thou hast not let me know whom thou wilt send with me. Yet thou hast said, I know thee by name, and thou hast also found grace in my sight. Ex 33

Sorry, but no, New covenant "grace" did not exist in the context of the old covenant. The Hebrew language did not have a word for what we know as the new covenant concept of "grace." Why have a word for that which does not exist in your experience? No one would know what it meant. John explains that "grace...was realized in Jesus Christ" (John 1:17); i.e. grace "came into being," "came to pass," "happened" historically in Jesus Christ.

The Hebrew word hen in the OT referred primarily to an attribute of God, whereas the Greek word charis in the NT is used to refer to the new and unique activity of God in Jesus Christ.

 

[Steeno7]

Nowhere in the Bible is God's grace portrayed as freedom from obeying God. Cheap grace is not from God, it's an invention from our own flesh used to excuse ourselves from being obedient to God. He paid a terrible price to give us His grace, and by that price He owns us and deserves our highest honor by obeying Him no matter how much it costs us.
It cost Him far more to give us His grace than It will ever cost us to obey Him by His grace.

Why is it that you see grace as causing disobedience? That's just stinkin' thinkin' on your part.

 

[Steeno7]

Just a question, Who says grace is free?

God does;

“And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.” Romans 11:6

"All are justified freely by His grace..." Romans 3:24

"To the praise of His glorious grace, which He has freely given us in the One He loves." Ephesians 1:6

 

[Meowzltov]

Just a question, Who says grace is free?

Read Ephesians 2:8 again and tell me what is actually free, or not of works?

Grace cost Christ his life

Absolutely! TRUE GRACE is far from cheap. Very inspiring post.

 

[MoreCoffee]

Just a question, Who says grace is free?

Read Ephesians 2:8 again and tell me what is actually free, or not of works?

Grace cost Christ his life. Do you honestly think I would not gladly repay? Why do we have martyrs for Christ? It is because they understand the true cost of grace. Certainly their works do not save them for that is of faith, which is the gift of God; but there is no price too much for the love they have received.

"I tell you the kingdom of heaven is like a treasure buried in a field. A man came and dug up the treasure. When he discovered its true worth he reburied it and spent everything he had to purchase the field."

That doesn't sound like cheap grace to me, but grace is worth everything I've got and so much more.

I tell you even the unsaved have grace available to them, but they have neither received nor purchased it yet.

I trust we will all see the great value of grace as Zacchaeus did who enthusiastically and gladly would pay all his goods for it. You don't believe me? Read the story.

It's good not to confuse the costly sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ with a cost paid by human beings who come to him in faith. It is Christ who paid the cost and those who place their faith in him who receive the grace of salvation through faith without works but for the purpose of doing the good works that God foreordained for them to do.

For by grace you are saved through faith: and that not of yourselves, for it is the gift of God. Not of works, that no man may glory. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus in good works, which God hath prepared that we should walk in them. (Ephesians 2:8-10 DRB)

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