Cheap Grace

[Meowzltov]

Fruits and works are 2 very different things.

Not really.

 

[Meowzltov]

You're using word games to claim that "keep my commandments" means keep the law given to Moses.

For Jews, it means keeping Mosaic law. For Gentiles, it means keeping only New Testament law. (Act 15)

 

[Meowzltov]

Because Grace does not save in itself. It's by Grace that God enables us to be saved, either by imparting Faith OR by counting your efforts to your credit (the latter of which I think is your view of the matter).

You misunderstand me. I don't think we earn Grace. I think we cooperate with Grace.

 

[Albion]

You misunderstand me. I don't think we earn Grace. I think we cooperate with Grace.

I think you misunderstood me.

I didn't say that you earn Grace or that you think you do. What I said is that some people think that Grace gives them the opportunity to earn their salvation by doing good works. I did also guess that you are among them, considering your denominational affiliation.

 

[Meowzltov]

You are insisting on "requirements" for Gods grace, "earned" is exactly the right word. God is not the responder, we are. We respond to His grace. Grace which is freely given and freely received......or not.

Required reciprocation is not the same thing as earning.

 

[Meowzltov]

Not what I asked.

You tried to make it seem like I was saying grace was earned, so I corrected you.

 

[Meowzltov]

I think you misunderstood me.

I didn't say that you earn Grace or that you think you do. What I said is that some people think that Grace gives them the opportunity to earn their salvation by doing good works. I did also guess that you are among them, considering your denominational affiliation.

The metaphor I was given in RCIA was that we are sick patients and God is the Great Physician healing us. We are required to cooperate with that healing.

 

[Steeno7]

Required reciprocation is not the same thing as earning.

Required reciprocation? You just keep digging a deeper hole......

 

[Albion]

The metaphor I was given in RCIA was that we are sick patients and God is the Great Physician healing us. We are required to cooperate with that healing.

I'd prefer you spoke to the points I made in that post--Grace is not earned but it's not what saves, either. Do you see it as allowing you to earn your own salvation by doing good works? That would be the POV of your church.

 

[Steeno7]

You tried to make it seem like I was saying grace was earned, so I corrected you.

You didn't answer what I asked, so you have corrected nothing.

 

[Meowzltov]

I'd prefer you spoke to the points I made in that post--Grace is not earned but it's not what saves, either. Do you see it as allowing you to earn your own salvation by doing good works? That would be the POV of your church.

My church makes a distinction between initial salvation and ongoing salvation. I'm making that same distinction. Or at least trying to.

 

[Meowzltov]

You didn't answer what I asked, so you have corrected nothing.

I refuse to answer what you ask when you put words in my mouth that don't belong there. Get a grip.

 

[Albion]

My church makes a distinction between initial salvation and ongoing salvation. I'm making that same distinction. Or at least trying to.

I'm still hoping you'll confirm or reject and at least address the point we were talking about a few posts ago.

God enables us to be saved, either by imparting saving Faith OR by granting Grace that makes possible him counting your good deeds and determining that enough of them have been performed to have earned salvation.

 

[Steeno7]

I refuse to answer what you ask when you put words in my mouth that don't belong there. Get a grip.

No, you refuse to answer because you have no answer. Obviously.

 

[Meowzltov]

God enables us to be saved, either by imparting saving Faith OR by granting Grace that makes possible him counting your good deeds and determining that enough of them have been performed to have earned salvation.

The way it was explained to me is that we don't earn grace, but we cooperate with grace. I'm sorry to keep repeating myself, but you don't seem to want to accept my answer.

 

[Meowzltov]

No, you refuse to answer because you have no answer. Obviously.

Pfft.

 

[Steeno7]

Pfft.

I rest my case......

 

[Meowzltov]

I rest my case......

You're too funny.

 

[Lulav]

Grace can't be free with add ons. It's either free completely or it ceases to be free. That's like giving you a Christmas present but then take on $5,000 for it plus interest. See how a free gift now ceases to be a free gift.

Free Grace is just that. Free with no hooks,add ons and requirements.

That's like saying:

This is the law:
You must provide your own transportation

Here is a free pass to ________

Now how do you use that free pass without keeping the law?

 

[Lulav]

You are telling God how to define his grace. That takes chutspah.

You can quote all the verses about initial justification you want. It doesn't make the verses about our ongoing walk disappear.

Sure does, but I see it over and over again in these kinds of forums. And more.