Charles Ryrie and Dispensational Confusion

[JerryShugart]

During the 70's and 80's a financial service company advertised on television with the phrase, "When E.F.Hutton talks, people listen." When Hutton's name is mentioned by a young professional during a dinner party his overheard words cause the loud party to cease all conversation to listen to what is being said about him. Today the same can be said among the Acts 2 dispensationalists, "When Charles Ryrie talks, people listen." Ryrie's teaching on the topic of dispensationalism is the gold standard among Acts 2 believers.

In his book Dispensationalism Dr. Ryrie explains the meaning of the Greek word translated "dispensation":

"The Greek word 'oikonomia' comes from the verb that means to manage, regulate, administer, and plan. The word itself is a compound whose parts mean literally 'to divide, apportion, administer or manage the affairs of an inhabited house.' In the papyri the officer (oikonomos) who administered a dispensation was referred to as a steward or manager of an estate, or as a treasurer. Thus, the central idea in the word dispensation is that of managing or administering the affairs of a household" [emphasis added] (Ryrie, Dispensationalism,[Moody Press, 1995], 25).
​

Yes, the central idea is that of managing or administering the affairs of a household. Next, Dr. Ryrie explains the "parties" who take part in a dispensational or stewardship arrangement:

"Basically there are two parties: the one whose authority it is to delegate duties, and the one whose responsibility it is to carry out these charges" (Ibid., 26).
​

So in the Biblical sense we can understand that it is the Lord who has the authority to delegate duties and it is man (the steward) who is given certain responsibilities. Therefore we can understand that it is the "steward" who administers in the household.

Despite the fact that Dr. Ryrie seems to understand this simple arrangement he says:

"Dispensationalism views the world as a household run by God. In His householdworld God is dispensing or administering its affairs according to His own will and in various stages of revelation in the passage of time" [emphasis added] (Ibid., 29).

"...it would seem from the concept of a dispensation as related to God's running the affairs of of His household (the world), that, when temporal history ends, the household arrangement...also ends" [emphasis added] (Ibid., 48).
​

This is absolutely wrong. The person who is given a "dispensation" or "administration" is the one who is running or administering the household-world. For example, Paul states in no uncertain terms that the "dispensation" in regard to grace has been given to him:

"If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward" (Eph.3:2; KJV).


"Surely you have heard about the administration of God's grace that was given to me for you" (Eph.3:2; NIV).
​

The "dispensation of grace" was first given to Paul. Therefore the responsibilty of running the household/world was given to him. As Christian's we are to follow Paul so therefore it is not God who is doing the administering (as Ryrie asserts) but instead Christians:

"Each one should use whatever gift he has received to serve others, faithfully administering God's grace in its various forms" (1 Pet.4:10; NIV).
​

Dr. Ryrie writes that "There is no more primary problem in the whole matter of dispensationalism than that of definition...To say that there is a great lack of clear thinking on this matter of definition is an understatement. Both dispensationalists and nondispensationalists are often guilty of lack of clarity " (Ibid., 23).

Dr. Ryrie is not only guilty of a "lack of clarity." His understanding of exactly who is running or administering God's household (the world) is directly contradicted by the Scriptures.

In the same book Dr. Ryrie makes other blunders in regard to the basic Biblical dispensations.

In His grace,

Jerry

 

[Biblewriter]

During the 70's and 80's a financial service company advertised on television with the phrase, "When E.F.Hutton talks, people listen." When Hutton's name is mentioned by a young professional during a dinner party his overheard words cause the loud party to cease all conversation to listen to what is being said about him. Today the same can be said among the Acts 2 dispensationalists, "When Charles Ryrie talks, people listen." Ryrie's teaching on the topic of dispensationalism is the gold standard among Acts 2 believers.

In his book Dispensationalism Dr. Ryrie explains the meaning of the Greek word translated "dispensation":

"The Greek word 'oikonomia' comes from the verb that means to manage, regulate, administer, and plan. The word itself is a compound whose parts mean literally 'to divide, apportion, administer or manage the affairs of an inhabited house.' In the papyri the officer (oikonomos) who administered a dispensation was referred to as a steward or manager of an estate, or as a treasurer. Thus, the central idea in the word dispensation is that of managing or administering the affairs of a household" [emphasis added] (Ryrie, Dispensationalism,[Moody Press, 1995], 25).
​

Yes, the central idea is that of managing or administering the affairs of a household. Next, Dr. Ryrie explains the "parties" who take part in a dispensational or stewardship arrangement:

"Basically there are two parties: the one whose authority it is to delegate duties, and the one whose responsibility it is to carry out these charges" (Ibid., 26).
​

So in the Biblical sense we can understand that it is the Lord who has the authority to delegate duties and it is man (the steward) who is given certain responsibilities. Therefore we can understand that it is the "steward" who administers in the household.

Despite the fact that Dr. Ryrie seems to understand this simple arrangement he says:

"Dispensationalism views the world as a household run by God. In His householdworld God is dispensing or administering its affairs according to His own will and in various stages of revelation in the passage of time" [emphasis added] (Ibid., 29).

"...it would seem from the concept of a dispensation as related to God's running the affairs of of His household (the world), that, when temporal history ends, the household arrangement...also ends" [emphasis added] (Ibid., 48).
​

This is absolutely wrong. The person who is given a "dispensation" or "administration" is the one who is running or administering the household-world. For example, Paul states in no uncertain terms that the "dispensation" in regard to grace has been given to him:

"If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward" (Eph.3:2; KJV).


"Surely you have heard about the administration of God's grace that was given to me for you" (Eph.3:2; NIV).
​

The "dispensation of grace" was first given to Paul. Therefore the responsibilty of running the household/world was given to him. As Christian's we are to follow Paul so therefore it is not God who is doing the administering (as Ryrie asserts) but instead Christians:

"Each one should use whatever gift he has received to serve others, faithfully administering God's grace in its various forms" (1 Pet.4:10; NIV).
​

Dr. Ryrie writes that "There is no more primary problem in the whole matter of dispensationalism than that of definition...To say that there is a great lack of clear thinking on this matter of definition is an understatement. Both dispensationalists and nondispensationalists are often guilty of lack of clarity " (Ibid., 23).

Dr. Ryrie is not only guilty of a "lack of clarity." His understanding of exactly who is running or administering God's household (the world) is directly contradicted by the Scriptures.

In the same book Dr. Ryrie makes other blunders in regard to the basic Biblical dispensations.

In His grace,

Jerry

I have often heard the name Charles Ryrie, but I have never heard him mentioned as the authoritative voice on the subject. There can be no doubt that he is the best known modern teacher on the subject. But if you really want to understand dispensationalism, read the books written in the nineteenth century by J. N. Darby and his close associate, William Kelly.

 

[JerryShugart]

I have often heard the name Charles Ryrie, but I have never heard him mentioned as the authoritative voice on the subject. There can be no doubt that he is the best known modern teacher on the subject. But if you really want to understand dispensationalism, read the books written in the nineteenth century by J. N. Darby and his close associate, William Kelly.

Yes, and here he expressed his opinion that the present dispensation did not begin on the day of Pentecost:

"Reference to the second chapter of Galatians will confirm and establish the point historically as to the present dispensation, where not only is the fact stated of Paul having the ministry of the Gentiles, as Peter of the circumcision; but it was actually agreed on their conference, consequent upon the grace given, that Paul and Barnabas should go to the uncircumcision; and James, and Cephas, and John should go to the circumcision. And so far was the apostle's mind under Judaising influence, that it required a positive fresh revelation to induce him to go into company with a Gentile at all, and even after this he would not eat when certain came from James. In fact the Gentile dispensation, as a distinct thing, took its rise on the death of Stephen, the witness that the Jews resisted the Holy Ghost: as their fathers did, so did they" (John Nelson Darby, The Apostasy of the Successive Dispensations).

The Apostasy Of The Successive Dispensations :: JN Darby

Although I know no one today who says that the present dispensation began in Acts 7 there are many who deny that it began on the day of Pentecost.

However, the subject of this thread is in regard to the teaching of Charles Ryrie. I wonder if there are any dispensationalists who agree with the statement which I pointed out where Ryrie says that it is God who is administering the affairs of the household/world.

In His grace,

Jerry

 

[mark273]

I would certainly hope (as someone who believes in that the church begins at Pentecost) that God is in charge of the dispensations. I would imagine for all his activity and stewardship, that Paul would regard himself as under the authority of Christ, rather than the church being under the authority of Paul.

But, one thing I was wondering about. Where exactly does it say that the "mystery" was first given to Paul? I know there are passages (you have quoted a few of them) where Paul says that it was given to him. But where does it say that it was given either first or exclusively to him?

 

[JerryShugart]

I would certainly hope (as someone who believes in that the church begins at Pentecost) that God is in charge of the dispensations. I would imagine for all his activity and stewardship, that Paul would regard himself as under the authority of Christ, rather than the church being under the authority of Paul.

Of course God is in charge. Ryrie correctly said:

"Basically there are two parties: the one whose authority it is to delegate duties, and the one whose responsibility it is to carry out these charges" (Ryrie, Dispensationalism,[Moody Press, 1995], 26).
​

The problem is that Ryrie has God playing both roles, the one who delegates duties as well as the one who is responsibile to carry out those duties:

"Dispensationalism views the world as a household run by God. In His householdworld God is dispensing or administering its affairs according to His own will and in various stages of revelation in the passage of time" [emphasis added] (Ibid., 29).
​

But, one thing I was wondering about. Where exactly does it say that the "mystery" was first given to Paul? I know there are passages (you have quoted a few of them) where Paul says that it was given to him. But where does it say that it was given either first or exclusively to him?

Paul calles it "my gospel" and he also relates that it was given directly to him from the Lord Jesus. None of the Twelve ever said that. In a Bible Tract titled Paul's Gospel an Acts 2 dispensationalist, William R. Newell, writes that none of the Twelve Apostles understood the truths associated with the Body of Christ until those truths were revealed to them by Paul:

"But unto none of these twelve Apostles did God reveal 'the great body of doctrine for this Age'…Paul is the unfolder of the great company of God's elect, called 'the Church, the Body of Christ,' the individuals of which Body are called 'members' of the Body of Christ—members of Christ 'Himself.' No other Apostle speaks of these things. Peter himself had to learn them from Paul (2 Pet. 3:15-16)" [emphasis added] (Newell, Paul's Gospel).
​

After reading this Bible tract Lewis Sperry Chafer, the founding President of Dallas Theological Seminary (Acts 2), said:

"This is a great tract, a clear treatise on the truth of God for this age. The author was one of America's greatest Bible expositors. It glorifies the Savior as the author desired it to do. It should be distributed by hundreds of thousands" (Editor, Journal of the Grace Evangelical Society, Autumn 1994, Volume 7:12).
​

Even though Chafer seemed to understand that truth he seems to contradict himself when he said the following:

"Even after His resurrection and forty days of instruction concerning the kingdom of God (Acts 1:3) they questioned Him as to the realization of the nation's hope: 'Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?' (Acts 1:6)...He does not tell them their kingdom is abandoned, or merged into a spiritual conquest of all nations: He plainly infers that every promise of God is still intact; but assigns to them the immediate ministry of the new gospel age. Even this they failed to comprehend" [emphasis added] (Chafer, The Church Which is His Body).
​

The second President of Dallas Theological Seminary, John F. Walvoord, wrote that "The gospel of Grace was given to Paul as a 'new' revelation" (Walvoord, "The Preincarnate Son of God", Bibliotheca Sacra, Oct.-Dec. 1947, Vol. 104, # 416, p.422).

In His grace,

Jerry

 

[mark273]

It seems strange to me to say that to only Paul was revealed the "great body of doctrine for this age". Paul wrote the better part of the New Testament, but I don't see any verses that point to him exclusively. The term body is a metaphor that only Paul uses. But Peter uses the metaphor of a building to describe the church in 1 Peter 2:4-8 just as Paul does in Ephesians 2. To me the exclusive use of a metaphor does not necessarily mean the exclusive use of the idea. John in his gospel talks about begin united in Christ, all believers being united together into one in John 15 & 17. The verses you are using are not saying what your main thesis says.

 

[JerryShugart]

It seems strange to me to say that to only Paul was revealed the "great body of doctrine for this age".

I think that what is meant is that it was Paul who first received these doctrines from God. Then through Paul the other Twelve learned these truths. Lewis Sperry Chafer correctly says that it was not until the first Jerusalem council that Peter understood the doctrine for this age, saying "it was not until Peter by divine compulsion had first preached the Gospel to Gentiles in Cornelius' house, and Paul and Barnabas had returned to Jerusalem reporting the same out flowing salvation to Gentiles as had been given to Jews that they were able to grasp the meaning of the new age. This new light came in connection with the deliberations of the first church council, called by the mother church at Jerusalem, and recorded in Acts 15:13-18" [emphasis added] (Chafer, The Church Which is His Body).

I believe that the following speaks of when the other Apostles were able to grasp the meaning of the new age. Paul wrote:

"But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person) for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me: But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter..." (Gal.2:6-7).
​

To me the exclusive use of a metaphor does not necessarily mean the exclusive use of the idea.

I am not saying that Paul had an exclusive use of these things but instead he was the first to receive these doctrines from God.

John in his gospel talks about begin united in Christ, all believers being united together into one in John 15 & 17. The verses you are using are not saying what your main thesis says.

In chapter 15 the words in regard to being united with the Lord Jesus says that if we do not abide with Hin then we will be "cast forth as a branch." That is speaking about our "service" for Him and not being united with Him in the Body of Christ. In chapter 17 the unity is not the same one mentioned here by Paul because he says that the unity of which he speaks was "hid from ages and generations" and only now revealed:

"Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory" (Col.1:25-27).
​

In His grace,

Jerry

 

[Clare73]

In his book Dispensationalism Dr. Ryrie explains the meaning of the Greek word translated "dispensation":

"The Greek word 'oikonomia' comes from the verb that means to manage, regulate, administer, and plan. The word itself is a compound whose parts mean literally 'to divide, apportion, administer or manage the affairs of an inhabited house.' In the papyri the officer (oikonomos) who administered a dispensation was referred to as a steward or manager of an estate, or as a treasurer. Thus, the central idea in the word dispensation is that of managing or administering the affairs of a household" [emphasis added] (Ryrie, Dispensationalism,[Moody Press, 1995], 25).
​

Yes, the central idea is that of managing or administering the affairs of a household. Next, Dr. Ryrie explains the "parties" who take part in a dispensational or stewardship arrangement:

"Basically there are two parties: the one whose authority it is to delegate duties, and the one whose responsibility it is to carry out these charges" (Ibid., 26).
​

So in the Biblical sense we can understand that it is the Lord who has the authority to delegate duties and it is man (the steward) who is given certain responsibilities. Therefore we can understand that it is the "steward" who administers in the household.

Despite the fact that Dr. Ryrie seems to understand this simple arrangement he says:

"Dispensationalism views the world as a household run by God. In His householdworld God is dispensing or administering its affairs according to His own will and in various stages of revelation in the passage of time" [emphasis added] (Ibid., 29).

"...it would seem from the concept of a dispensation as related to God's running the affairs of of His household (the world), that, when temporal history ends, the household arrangement...also ends" [emphasis added] (Ibid., 48).
​

Paul is not saying that he is the administrator of the "dispensation of grace."

He is saying that God has given him to know, and a commision to preach, God's administrative plan
for the church (Eph 2:3-6; Col 1:25-27) and for the universe (Eph 2:7-12).

In the faith,
Clare

 

[JerryShugart]

Paul is not saying that he is the administrator of the "dispensatyion of grace."

Clare,

The one who is given the administration is the same one who is the administrator, and Paul makes it plain that the administration was given to him:

"Surely you have heard about the administration of God's grace that was given to me for you" (Eph.3:2; NIV).
​

In His grace,

Jerry

 

[Clare73]

Clare,

The one who is given the administration is the same one who is the administrator, and Paul makes it plain that the administration was given to him:

"Surely you have heard about the administration of God's grace that was given to me for you" (Eph.3:2; NIV).
​

In His grace,

Jerry

In the context of the rest of Scripture, that is a misunderstanding of what Paul meant.

Only God is the administrator of his grace.

God's grace is the source of faith.

Paul has nothing to do with God's decision regarding to whom he gives grace, faith and salvation.

In the faith,
Clare

 

[JerryShugart]

In the context of the rest of Scripture, that is a misunderstanding of what Paul meant.

Here are three quotes from the pen of Paul where he speaks of a "dispensation" that has been committed or given to him:

"If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me toward you" (Eph. 3:2).

"Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God" (Col.1:25).

"...a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me" (1 Cor.9:17).
​

The "dispensation" which was committed to Paul is in regard to "God's grace", a "ministry", and a "gospel." Here Paul sums up his dispensational responsibility:

"But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God" (Acts 20: 24).
​

In Bibliotheca Sacra, a journal published by Dallas Theological Seminary, Roy L. Aldrich quotes these three verses (Eph.3:2; Col.1:25; 1 Cor.9:17) and then says, "These passages use the word 'dispensation' (or 'stewardship') to describe the sacred commission or trust to preach the gospel" [emphasis added] (Aldrich, "A New Look at Dispensationalism," Bibliotheca Sacra, January-March, 1963, Vol.120, Number 477, p.43).

In His grace,

Jerry

 

[Clare73]

Here are three quotes from the pen of Paul where he speaks of a "dispensation" that has been committed or given to him:

"If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me toward you" (Eph. 3:2).

"Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God" (Col.1:25).

"...a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me" (1 Cor.9:17).
​

The "dispensation" which was committed to Paul is in regard to "God's grace", a "ministry", and a "gospel." Here Paul sums up his dispensational responsibility:

"But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God" (Acts 20: 24).
​

In Bibliotheca Sacra, a journal published by Dallas Theological Seminary, Roy L. Aldrich quotes these three verses (Eph.3:2; Col.1:25; 1 Cor.9:17) and then says, "These passages use the word 'dispensation' (or 'stewardship') to describe the sacred commission or trust to preach the gospel" [emphasis added] (Aldrich, "A New Look at Dispensationalism," Bibliotheca Sacra, January-March, 1963, Vol.120, Number 477, p.43).

In His grace,

Jerry

Isn't that what I said?

"He is saying that God has given him to know, and a commision to preach, God's administrative plan
for the church (Eph 2:3-6; Col 1:25-27) and for the universe (Eph 2:7-12)."

In the faith,
Clare

 

[Danoh]

As I arrive at the meaning of the words used within Scripture by how said words are used, I offer the following in support of Jerry's contention that to Paul was this dispensation of the grace of God given:

In 1 Corinthians 4, this new, completely unexpected Apostle - of the Gentiles: Paul - wrote of himself and those who labored with him in the Mystery and its truths:

1. Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.​

2. Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.

I wonder how many believers ever notice that - that there were alerady twelve Apotles - one for each of Israel's Twelve tribes - why this new one?

note how Scripture interprest itself - how it interprets what the lord meant by "ye which have followed me":

Matthew 19:

28. And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Acts 1:​

21. Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
22. Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

Does not appear that Paul, still lost at that time, qualified:

23. And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
24. And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
25. That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
26. And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.​

Anyway, Scripture also declares the meaning of a word Paul would later use as to his faithful dispensing of the responsibilities of that stewadship later given him over the Gentiles:

Luke 12:
42. And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?

In that use of the word steward, Paul, later, writing of his conversion -by the Lord Himself declared:

Acts 26:

15. And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.
16. But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;
17. Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
18. To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

In Titus 1 he writes:
​

1. Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
2. In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
3. But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;

While, in Ephesians he noted:

Eph. 3:​

​

​

1. For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2. If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3. How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4. Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5. Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6. That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
7. Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.
8. Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
9. And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
10. To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

In Romans he declared - Rom. 15:
​

13. Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.
14. And I myself also am persuaded of you, my brethren, that ye also are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge, able also to admonish one another.
15. Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God,
16. That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.
17. I have therefore whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God.
18. For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,
19. Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ.
20. Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build​

upon another man’s foundation:​

21. But as it is written, To whom he was not spoken of, they shall see: and they that have not heard shall understand.

And that is just a small sample, for he over and over declares said stewardship was dispensed, or committed, unto to him directly by the Lord, that he, Paul, as its wise master builder, lay the foundation of among the Gentiles according to [this dispnesation of] grace given unto him, 1 Cor. 3, while others received knowledge of it from Paul, which was then confirmed as by God to them by the Holy Spirit.

Here is another concerning this faith, or unique doctrine once kept hid in God until first committed unto and through this equally unique Apostle:

Col. 1:​

21. And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled,
22. In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
23. If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
24. Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:
25. Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
26. Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
27. To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
28. Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:​

29. Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

According to that, we will not be able to be presented before the Lord perfect in Chriust Jesus - that is, fully matured by its truth, Eph. 4:13; 2 Tim. 3:17 - if we fail to understand what the riches of the glory of this mystery - Christ in you, the very hope of said glory - is.

And that is not even the mystery, rather, it is the riches of its glory - of Christ in you!

Sort of like attempting to eat a rich chocolate cake one continues to deny the recipe of, instead, going by someone else has come up with. In this case, the traditions of men.

Respectfully,

Danoh
Eph. 4:16

​

 

[JerryShugart]

Isn't that what I said?
"He is saying that God has given him to know, and a commision to preach, God's administrative plan
for the church (Eph 2:3-6; Col 1:25-27) and for the universe (Eph 2:7-12)."

Clare, this is not difficult to understand. Again, Charles Ryrie correctly said:
"Basically there are two parties: the one whose authority it is to delegate duties, and the one whose responsibility it is to carry out these charges" (Ryrie, Dispensationalism,[Moody Press, 1995], 26).
The one who has the authority to delegate duties is God.

Do you understand that? The other party, the one who had the authority to carry out the duty to preach the gospel ,was Paul.

Do you understand that? Paul was a steward and therefore he was given the stewardship to carry out the duties because that stewardship was given to him.

"If indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God's grace which was given to me for you" (Eph.3:2; NASB).
​

If a person is given a "stewardship" by God then that person is the "steward," not God. It is not God who is the steward, but instead the one whose authority it is to delegate duties. It is the steward who carries out the delegated duties.

Therefore, you were in error when you said:

Paul is not saying that he is the administrator of the "dispensation of grace."

In His grace,
Jerry

 

[mark273]

I think that what is meant is that it was Paul who first received these doctrines from God. Then through Paul the other Twelve learned these truths. Lewis Sperry Chafer correctly says that it was not until the first Jerusalem council that Peter understood the doctrine for this age, saying "it was not until Peter by divine compulsion had first preached the Gospel to Gentiles in Cornelius' house, and Paul and Barnabas had returned to Jerusalem reporting the same out flowing salvation to Gentiles as had been given to Jews that they were able to grasp the meaning of the new age. This new light came in connection with the deliberations of the first church council, called by the mother church at Jerusalem, and recorded in Acts 15:13-18" [emphasis added] (Chafer, The Church Which is His Body).

I believe that the following speaks of when the other Apostles were able to grasp the meaning of the new age. Paul wrote:

"But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person) for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me: But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter..." (Gal.2:6-7).
​

I am not saying that Paul had an exclusive use of these things but instead he was the first to receive these doctrines from God.

In chapter 15 the words in regard to being united with the Lord Jesus says that if we do not abide with Hin then we will be "cast forth as a branch." That is speaking about our "service" for Him and not being united with Him in the Body of Christ. In chapter 17 the unity is not the same one mentioned here by Paul because he says that the unity of which he speaks was "hid from ages and generations" and only now revealed:

"Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory" (Col.1:25-27).
​

In His grace,

Jerry

I understand the Chafer and Walvoord believe the same as you on these matters, but I still don't see any clear Scriptural warrant for saying that Paul was the first to receive this information.

 

[JerryShugart]

I understand the Chafer and Walvoord believe the same as you on these matters, but I still don't see any clear Scriptural warrant for saying that Paul was the first to receive this information.

In regard to the beginning of the "present dispensation of grace" it does not matter who received the "gospel of grace" first but instead who preached it first. Here are three quotes from the pen of Paul where he speaks of a "dispensation" that has been committed or given to him:

"If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me toward you" (Eph. 3:2).

"Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God" (Col.1:25).

"...a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me" (1 Cor.9:17).
​

The "dispensation" which was committed to Paul is in regard to "God's grace", a "ministry", and a "gospel." Here Paul sums up his dispensational responsibility:

"But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God" (Acts 20: 24).
​

There can be no doubt whatsoever that the event which marks the beginning of the "dispensation of grace" is the preaching of the "gospel of grace."

if Peter and his fellow Apostles had been given a stewardship to preach the "gospel of grace" beginning on the day of Pentecost then why did they not preach that gospel then?

I have already demonstrated that on that day they preached the gospel which is centered on the "identity" of the Lord Jesus, that He is the Christ, the Son of God. And men were being saved by believing that gospel. It is evident that the "gospel of grace" was not preached on the day of Pentecost so it is evident that the "dispensation of grace" did not begin at Acts 2.

In His grace,

Jerry

 

[Clare73]

Clare, this is not difficult to understand. Again, Charles Ryrie correctly said:
"Basically there are two parties: the one whose authority it is to delegate duties, and the one whose responsibility it is to carry out these charges" (Ryrie, Dispensationalism,[Moody Press, 1995], 26).
The one who has the authority to delegate duties is God.

Do you understand that? The other party, the one who had the authority to carry out the duty to preach the gospel ,was Paul.

Do you understand that? Paul was a steward and therefore he was given the stewardship to carry out the duties because that stewardship was given to him.

"If indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God's grace which was given to me for you" (Eph.3:2; NASB).
​

If a person is given a "stewardship" by God then that person is the "steward," not God. It is not God who is the steward, but instead the one whose authority it is to delegate duties. It is the steward who carries out the delegated duties.

Therefore, you were in error when you said:


In His grace,
Jerry

So you are saying God gave Paul the duty to preach the gospel?

Why didn't you just say that?

In the faith,
Clare

 

[mark273]

In regard to the beginning of the "present dispensation of grace" it does not matter who received the "gospel of grace" first but instead who preached it first. Here are three quotes from the pen of Paul where he speaks of a "dispensation" that has been committed or given to him:

"If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me toward you" (Eph. 3:2).

"Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God" (Col.1:25).

"...a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me" (1 Cor.9:17).
​

The "dispensation" which was committed to Paul is in regard to "God's grace", a "ministry", and a "gospel." Here Paul sums up his dispensational responsibility:

"But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God" (Acts 20: 24).
​

There can be no doubt whatsoever that the event which marks the beginning of the "dispensation of grace" is the preaching of the "gospel of grace."

if Peter and his fellow Apostles had been given a stewardship to preach the "gospel of grace" beginning on the day of Pentecost then why did they not preach that gospel then?

I have already demonstrated that on that day they preached the gospel which is centered on the "identity" of the Lord Jesus, that He is the Christ, the Son of God. And men were being saved by believing that gospel. It is evident that the "gospel of grace" was not preached on the day of Pentecost so it is evident that the "dispensation of grace" did not begin at Acts 2.

In His grace,

Jerry

The problem with the verses you cite about Paul's ministry is that they don't say what you need them to say to support your thesis. You claim that Paul was the first one to preach "the gospel of grace", but that is not what those verses say. They simply say that he preached the gospel of grace, with which of course, I completely agree.

And if Paul was called first to preach the gospel to the gentiles, why do we have this verse in Acts 15:7?

"And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe."

It seems to me that Jesus gave the basic elements of the gospel of grace in Luke 24:44-47. There we have Christ's death, repentance, and forgiveness of sins in his name. This is the message that was to go to all the nations, beginning in Jerusalem. There is no difference in the "gospels" you are talking about. You have not demonstrated a clear difference. The verses you cite do not say what you need them to say for your view to be correct.

 

[mark273]

During the 70's and 80's a financial service company advertised on television with the phrase, "When E.F.Hutton talks, people listen." When Hutton's name is mentioned by a young professional during a dinner party his overheard words cause the loud party to cease all conversation to listen to what is being said about him. Today the same can be said among the Acts 2 dispensationalists, "When Charles Ryrie talks, people listen." Ryrie's teaching on the topic of dispensationalism is the gold standard among Acts 2 believers.

In his book Dispensationalism Dr. Ryrie explains the meaning of the Greek word translated "dispensation":

"The Greek word 'oikonomia' comes from the verb that means to manage, regulate, administer, and plan. The word itself is a compound whose parts mean literally 'to divide, apportion, administer or manage the affairs of an inhabited house.' In the papyri the officer (oikonomos) who administered a dispensation was referred to as a steward or manager of an estate, or as a treasurer. Thus, the central idea in the word dispensation is that of managing or administering the affairs of a household" [emphasis added] (Ryrie, Dispensationalism,[Moody Press, 1995], 25).
​

Yes, the central idea is that of managing or administering the affairs of a household. Next, Dr. Ryrie explains the "parties" who take part in a dispensational or stewardship arrangement:

"Basically there are two parties: the one whose authority it is to delegate duties, and the one whose responsibility it is to carry out these charges" (Ibid., 26).
​

So in the Biblical sense we can understand that it is the Lord who has the authority to delegate duties and it is man (the steward) who is given certain responsibilities. Therefore we can understand that it is the "steward" who administers in the household.

Despite the fact that Dr. Ryrie seems to understand this simple arrangement he says:

"Dispensationalism views the world as a household run by God. In His householdworld God is dispensing or administering its affairs according to His own will and in various stages of revelation in the passage of time" [emphasis added] (Ibid., 29).

"...it would seem from the concept of a dispensation as related to God's running the affairs of of His household (the world), that, when temporal history ends, the household arrangement...also ends" [emphasis added] (Ibid., 48).
​

This is absolutely wrong. The person who is given a "dispensation" or "administration" is the one who is running or administering the household-world. For example, Paul states in no uncertain terms that the "dispensation" in regard to grace has been given to him:

"If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward" (Eph.3:2; KJV).


"Surely you have heard about the administration of God's grace that was given to me for you" (Eph.3:2; NIV).
​

The "dispensation of grace" was first given to Paul. Therefore the responsibilty of running the household/world was given to him. As Christian's we are to follow Paul so therefore it is not God who is doing the administering (as Ryrie asserts) but instead Christians:

"Each one should use whatever gift he has received to serve others, faithfully administering God's grace in its various forms" (1 Pet.4:10; NIV).
​

Dr. Ryrie writes that "There is no more primary problem in the whole matter of dispensationalism than that of definition...To say that there is a great lack of clear thinking on this matter of definition is an understatement. Both dispensationalists and nondispensationalists are often guilty of lack of clarity " (Ibid., 23).

Dr. Ryrie is not only guilty of a "lack of clarity." His understanding of exactly who is running or administering God's household (the world) is directly contradicted by the Scriptures.

In the same book Dr. Ryrie makes other blunders in regard to the basic Biblical dispensations.

In His grace,

Jerry

I honestly do not see how this is a significant issue. God oversees all and has delegated some tasks to others under him. Thus there is a sense in which God is the head of the household and this the chief administrator, and Paul is one to whom authority is delegated, and so he is an administrator.

We could use the same metaphor of who is the shepherd/pastor of a church. In a sense Jesus is. He is the chief shepherd. In other sense, equally real, my pastor is the shepherd/pastor of my church. I see no conflict. I don't see how pointing out this "discrepancy" or sloppy use of language is at all significant. Perhaps an editor should have caught it, but I really don't see the doctrinal significance.

 

[JerryShugart]

The problem with the verses you cite about Paul's ministry is that they don't say what you need them to say to support your thesis. You claim that Paul was the first one to preach "the gospel of grace", but that is not what those verses say. They simply say that he preached the gospel of grace, with which of course, I completely agree.

Where do you find anyone before Paul ever teaching that a person is saved by grace?

And if Paul was called first to preach the gospel to the gentiles, why do we have this verse in Acts 15:7?

I never said that Paul was the first to preach to the Gentiles. The gospel which Peter preached to the Jews was the same one which was preached to the Jews (see Acts 10:37). At Galatians 1 Paul speaks of the gospel which he preached to those in the churches which he founded and he says that he received that gospel from the Lord Jesus for the express purpose to preach it among the Gentiles:

"But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ...But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the Gentiles" (Gal.1:11-12; 15-16).
​

We can understand that the gospel of which Paul is speaking is strictly for the Gentiles by his remarks later in the same epistle:

"And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain" (Gal.2:2).
​

If there were only "one" gospel then there would be absolutely no reason to specify that the gospel that he is speaking of is the one "which I preach among the Gentiles."

If the gospel he preached among the Gentiles was the same gospel which he preached among the Jews then why would he need to go to Jerusalem in order to consider its relationship to the gospel which he had preached earlier in the company of some of the Apostles (Acts 9:27-29)? Of course there would be no reason for him to do that if the gospel which he earlier preached with other apostles was the same one that he was preaching to the Gentiles.

It seems to me that Jesus gave the basic elements of the gospel of grace in Luke 24:44-47. There we have Christ's death, repentance, and forgiveness of sins in his name. This is the message that was to go to all the nations, beginning in Jerusalem. There is no difference in the "gospels" you are talking about. You have not demonstrated a clear difference. The verses you cite do not say what you need them to say for your view to be correct.

Of course there is a HUGE difference between what Peter preached on the day of Pentecost and the word which we are to preach today:

"And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God" (2 Cor.5:18-20).
​

Paul called the gospel which he preached to the Gentiles "the preaching of the Cross" and Peter's semon on the day of Pentecost will be searched in vain for any mention of the "purpose" of the lord Jesus' death upon the Cross or any mention of the "word of reconciliation."

If Peter was given the commission to preach the "word of reconciliation" and the fact that "Christ died for our sins" at Pentecost then why didn't he?

In His grace,

Jerry