Charge, Commandments, Statutes, and Laws

[HARK!]

What does all of this mean?

There seems to be disagreement among translators:

Genesis 26:5 King James Version

5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Genesis 26:5 Complete Jewish Bible

5 All this is because Avraham heeded what I said and did what I told him to do — he followed my mitzvot, my regulations and my teachings.”

(CLV) Gn 26:5
inasmuch as your father Abraham hearkened to My voice and kept My charge, My instructions, My statutes and My laws.

Genesis 26:5 Young's Literal Translation

5 because that Abraham hath hearkened to My voice, and keepeth My charge, My commands, My statutes, and My laws.'

ה עֵקֶב, אֲשֶׁר-שָׁמַע אַבְרָהָם בְּקֹלִי; וַיִּשְׁמֹר, מִשְׁמַרְתִּי, מִצְוֺתַי, חֻקּוֹתַי וְתוֹרֹתָי.

There are actually five actions here. We have a discrepancy as to whether heard , heeded, or obeyed. I'll overlook this one for now. Let's move on to the other four terms. All four of these translators agree that Abraham kept these four, whatever they are.

So what are they?

I'll use definitions from a secular source, to avoid bias. The definitions in blue are from Google Translate.

1.) Charge
H4931 (משמרתי) mishmereth

Translations of מִשׁמֶרֶת
noun


shift
מִשׁמֶרֶת, תְזוּזָה, תַחְבּוּלָה, הַעתָקָה, שִׁנוּי, הֲזָז
Shift, shift, trick, copy, change, move

duty
חוֹבָה, מַס, תַפְקִיד, מֶכֶס, מְשִׁימָה, הִתחַיְבוּת
Duty, tax, function, customs, duty, obligation

guard
מִשׁמָר, שׁוֹמֵר, מְאַבְטֵחַ, זָקִיף, נוֹצֵר, מִשׁמָרָה
mshmr, shumr, mabtkh, zkif, nutsr, mshmrh
Guard, guard, security guard, sentry, Christian, guard

custody
מִשׁמוֹרֶת, מַעְצָר, מִשׁמֶרֶת, אוֹמְנָה, מִשׁמָרָה, הַשׁגָחָה
Custody, Detention, Custody, Custody, Custody, Supervision

keeping
שְׁמִירָה, הַשׁגָחָה, מִשׁמֶרֶת
Guarding, supervision, guarding

preserving
מִשׁמֶרֶת, כְּבִישָׁה, שִׁמוּר
Shift, pickling, guard

The Root: From מִשְׁמָר (H4929)
guard

2.) Commandments, Instructions, Commands, Mitzvot
H4687 (מצותי) mitsvah

Translations of מִצוָה
noun


commandment
מִצוָה, דִבְרָה, דִבֵר
Mitzvah, word, word

command
פְּקוּדָה, שְׁלִיטָה, מִפקָדָה, צִוּוּי, פִּקוּד, תַפְקִיד
Command, control, command, command, command, function

law
חוֹק, דִין, מִשׁפָּט, עִקָרוֹן, מִצוָה, חוּקָה
Law, Law, Judgment, Principle, Mitzvah, Constitution

precept
הוֹרָאָה, מִצוָה, עֵדוּת
Instruction, mitzvah, testimony

duty
חוֹבָה, מַס, תַפְקִיד, מֶכֶס, מְשִׁימָה, הִתחַיְבוּת
Duty, tax, function, customs, duty, obligation

behest
פְּקוּדָה, מִצוָה, צַו
Command, mitzvah, command

obligation
חוֹבָה, מְחוּיָבוּת, חָבוּת, חִיוּב, הִתקַשְׁרוּת, הִתחַיְבוּת
Obligation, Commitment, Obligation, Obligation, Commitment, Commitment

The Root: From צָוָה (H6680)
Order

3.) Statutes, Regulations
H2708 (חקותי) chuqqah

or
חֻקָּה

Bizarre things are happening at Google with this word.

I'll leave it at this: Constitution

The Root: From חֹק (H2706)
Law

4.) Laws, Teachings
H8451 (ותורתי) towrah

Translations of תוֹרָה
noun

Torah
תוֹרָה
Bible

theory
תֵאוֹרִיָה, תוֹרָה, שִׁיטָה
Theory, Torah, Method

doctrine
דוֹקטרִינָה, תוֹרָה, דוֹגמָה, שִׁיטָה, עִקָרוֹן, עִקָ
Doctrine, Torah, Example, Method, Principle, Principle

Pentateuch
חוּמָשׁ, תוֹרָה, חֲמִישָׁה חוּמָשֵׁי תוֹרָה
Pentateuch, Torah, Five Pentateuchs Torah

science
מַדָע, מַדָעֵי הַטֶבַע, תוֹרָה
Science, natural sciences, Torah

teaching
הוֹרָאָה, תוֹרָה, לֶקַח, לִמוּד, הַדְרָכָה
Teaching, Torah, Lesson, Learning, Training

lore
תוֹרָה, לִמוּד, הוֹרָאָה, יֶדַע עַם
Torah, study, teaching, knowledge with


The Root: From יָרָה (H3384)
irh (WOW! Thanks Google.)

Here's what I get from: H3384 - yarah - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (KJV)

KJV Translation Count — Total: 84x

The KJV translates Strong's H3384 in the following manner: teach (42x), shoot (18x), archers (5x), cast (5x), teacher (4x), rain (2x), laid (1x), direct (1x), inform (1x), instructed (1x), shewed (1x), shooters (1x), through (1x), watered (1x).




Well, I'm getting a strong understanding why there are differences in the translations; but I still don't understand why our heavenly father chose these four different words.

 

[HARK!]

This Post reserved. More to come.

Ordinance: H4941

Just preparing. Still more to come.

 

[Minister Monardo]

mishpat-judgments, from shaphat-to judge.
Exodus 21:1. Now these are the judgments which you shall set before them.
Exodus 18:26. So they judged the people at all times; the hard cases they brought
to Moses, but they judged every small case themselves.

Codification resulting from rulings at the hand of Moses and the judges.

Numbers 15:
32 Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day.
33 And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation.
34 They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.
35 Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.”
36 So, as the Lord commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died.
The Lord commanded Moses-tsavah, resulting in a new mishpat.

 

[Minister Monardo]

What does all of this mean?

There seems to be disagreement among translators:

Genesis 26:5 King James Version

5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Genesis 26:5 Complete Jewish Bible

5 All this is because Avraham heeded what I said and did what I told him to do — he followed my mitzvot, my regulations and my teachings.”

(CLV) Gn 26:5
inasmuch as your father Abraham hearkened to My voice and kept My charge, My instructions, My statutes and My laws.

Genesis 26:5 Young's Literal Translation

5 because that Abraham hath hearkened to My voice, and keepeth My charge, My commands, My statutes, and My laws.'

ה עֵקֶב, אֲשֶׁר-שָׁמַע אַבְרָהָם בְּקֹלִי; וַיִּשְׁמֹר, מִשְׁמַרְתִּי, מִצְוֺתַי, חֻקּוֹתַי וְתוֹרֹתָי.

There are actually five actions here. We have a discrepancy as to whether heard , heeded, or obeyed. I'll overlook this one for now. Let's move on to the other four terms. All four of these translators agree that Abraham kept these four, whatever they are.

So what are they?

I'll use definitions from a secular source, to avoid bias. The definitions in blue are from Google Translate.

1.) Charge
H4931 (משמרתי) mishmereth

Translations of מִשׁמֶרֶת
noun


shift
מִשׁמֶרֶת, תְזוּזָה, תַחְבּוּלָה, הַעתָקָה, שִׁנוּי, הֲזָז
Shift, shift, trick, copy, change, move

duty
חוֹבָה, מַס, תַפְקִיד, מֶכֶס, מְשִׁימָה, הִתחַיְבוּת
Duty, tax, function, customs, duty, obligation

guard
מִשׁמָר, שׁוֹמֵר, מְאַבְטֵחַ, זָקִיף, נוֹצֵר, מִשׁמָרָה
mshmr, shumr, mabtkh, zkif, nutsr, mshmrh
Guard, guard, security guard, sentry, Christian, guard

custody
מִשׁמוֹרֶת, מַעְצָר, מִשׁמֶרֶת, אוֹמְנָה, מִשׁמָרָה, הַשׁגָחָה
Custody, Detention, Custody, Custody, Custody, Supervision

keeping
שְׁמִירָה, הַשׁגָחָה, מִשׁמֶרֶת
Guarding, supervision, guarding

preserving
מִשׁמֶרֶת, כְּבִישָׁה, שִׁמוּר
Shift, pickling, guard

The Root: From מִשְׁמָר (H4929)
guard

2.) Commandments, Instructions, Commands, Mitzvot
H4687 (מצותי) mitsvah

Translations of מִצוָה
noun


commandment
מִצוָה, דִבְרָה, דִבֵר
Mitzvah, word, word

command
פְּקוּדָה, שְׁלִיטָה, מִפקָדָה, צִוּוּי, פִּקוּד, תַפְקִיד
Command, control, command, command, command, function

law
חוֹק, דִין, מִשׁפָּט, עִקָרוֹן, מִצוָה, חוּקָה
Law, Law, Judgment, Principle, Mitzvah, Constitution

precept
הוֹרָאָה, מִצוָה, עֵדוּת
Instruction, mitzvah, testimony

duty
חוֹבָה, מַס, תַפְקִיד, מֶכֶס, מְשִׁימָה, הִתחַיְבוּת
Duty, tax, function, customs, duty, obligation

behest
פְּקוּדָה, מִצוָה, צַו
Command, mitzvah, command

obligation
חוֹבָה, מְחוּיָבוּת, חָבוּת, חִיוּב, הִתקַשְׁרוּת, הִתחַיְבוּת
Obligation, Commitment, Obligation, Obligation, Commitment, Commitment

The Root: From צָוָה (H6680)
Order

3.) Statutes, Regulations
H2708 (חקותי) chuqqah

or
חֻקָּה

Bizarre things are happening at Google with this word.

I'll leave it at this: Constitution

The Root: From חֹק (H2706)
Law

4.) Laws, Teachings
H8451 (ותורתי) towrah

Translations of תוֹרָה
noun

Torah
תוֹרָה
Bible

theory
תֵאוֹרִיָה, תוֹרָה, שִׁיטָה
Theory, Torah, Method

doctrine
דוֹקטרִינָה, תוֹרָה, דוֹגמָה, שִׁיטָה, עִקָרוֹן, עִקָ
Doctrine, Torah, Example, Method, Principle, Principle

Pentateuch
חוּמָשׁ, תוֹרָה, חֲמִישָׁה חוּמָשֵׁי תוֹרָה
Pentateuch, Torah, Five Pentateuchs Torah

science
מַדָע, מַדָעֵי הַטֶבַע, תוֹרָה
Science, natural sciences, Torah

teaching
הוֹרָאָה, תוֹרָה, לֶקַח, לִמוּד, הַדְרָכָה
Teaching, Torah, Lesson, Learning, Training

lore
תוֹרָה, לִמוּד, הוֹרָאָה, יֶדַע עַם
Torah, study, teaching, knowledge with


The Root: From יָרָה (H3384)
irh (WOW! Thanks Google.)

Here's what I get from: H3384 - yarah - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (KJV)

KJV Translation Count — Total: 84x

The KJV translates Strong's H3384 in the following manner: teach (42x), shoot (18x), archers (5x), cast (5x), teacher (4x), rain (2x), laid (1x), direct (1x), inform (1x), instructed (1x), shewed (1x), shooters (1x), through (1x), watered (1x).




Well, I'm getting a strong understanding why there are differences in the translations; but I still don't understand why our heavenly father chose these four different words.

Hence the vague nature of someone saying they "keep the Torah", and
why Paul emphasized to Timothy:
2 Timothy 3:
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness [torah]
17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
All Scripture, as in all of the above.
I understand torah to be the tabernacle in which all the other words are found:
commands, precepts, judgments, doctrines etc...

 

[HARK!]

NOTE:

In hind sight, I probably should have made it more clear that this thread is more of an objective words study; than it is a theology discussion. This is why I used a secular source for definitions.

I know that this might be extremely difficult, if not impossible; but let us try to put ourselves in the mindset of someone coming out of Egypt, some one who was hearing the Torah for the first time, completely unbiased. How would they have understood these words?

 

[visionary]

What I see is rulings that involve the people as a body are considered a statute. These are not in relationship to God in the direct sense but in relationship to the state of governing the body through legal processes.

stat·ute
/ˈstaCHo͞ot/

noun
plural noun: statutes

1. a written law passed by a legislative body.
   "violation of the hate crimes statute"
   
   Similar:
   law, regulation, enactment, act, bill, decree, edict, rule, ruling, resolution,
   promulgation, measure, motion, dictum, command, order, stipulation, commandment, directive, pronouncement, ratification, proclamation, dictate,
   diktat, fiat, covenant, demand, bylaw, ordinance, ukase, pronunciament.
2. a rule of an organization or institution.

 

[eleos1954]

What does all of this mean?

There seems to be disagreement among translators:

Genesis 26:5 King James Version

5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Genesis 26:5 Complete Jewish Bible

5 All this is because Avraham heeded what I said and did what I told him to do — he followed my mitzvot, my regulations and my teachings.”

(CLV) Gn 26:5
inasmuch as your father Abraham hearkened to My voice and kept My charge, My instructions, My statutes and My laws.

Genesis 26:5 Young's Literal Translation

5 because that Abraham hath hearkened to My voice, and keepeth My charge, My commands, My statutes, and My laws.'

ה עֵקֶב, אֲשֶׁר-שָׁמַע אַבְרָהָם בְּקֹלִי; וַיִּשְׁמֹר, מִשְׁמַרְתִּי, מִצְוֺתַי, חֻקּוֹתַי וְתוֹרֹתָי.

There are actually five actions here. We have a discrepancy as to whether heard , heeded, or obeyed. I'll overlook this one for now. Let's move on to the other four terms. All four of these translators agree that Abraham kept these four, whatever they are.

So what are they?

I'll use definitions from a secular source, to avoid bias. The definitions in blue are from Google Translate.

1.) Charge
H4931 (משמרתי) mishmereth

Translations of מִשׁמֶרֶת
noun


shift
מִשׁמֶרֶת, תְזוּזָה, תַחְבּוּלָה, הַעתָקָה, שִׁנוּי, הֲזָז
Shift, shift, trick, copy, change, move

duty
חוֹבָה, מַס, תַפְקִיד, מֶכֶס, מְשִׁימָה, הִתחַיְבוּת
Duty, tax, function, customs, duty, obligation

guard
מִשׁמָר, שׁוֹמֵר, מְאַבְטֵחַ, זָקִיף, נוֹצֵר, מִשׁמָרָה
mshmr, shumr, mabtkh, zkif, nutsr, mshmrh
Guard, guard, security guard, sentry, Christian, guard

custody
מִשׁמוֹרֶת, מַעְצָר, מִשׁמֶרֶת, אוֹמְנָה, מִשׁמָרָה, הַשׁגָחָה
Custody, Detention, Custody, Custody, Custody, Supervision

keeping
שְׁמִירָה, הַשׁגָחָה, מִשׁמֶרֶת
Guarding, supervision, guarding

preserving
מִשׁמֶרֶת, כְּבִישָׁה, שִׁמוּר
Shift, pickling, guard

The Root: From מִשְׁמָר (H4929)
guard

2.) Commandments, Instructions, Commands, Mitzvot
H4687 (מצותי) mitsvah

Translations of מִצוָה
noun


commandment
מִצוָה, דִבְרָה, דִבֵר
Mitzvah, word, word

command
פְּקוּדָה, שְׁלִיטָה, מִפקָדָה, צִוּוּי, פִּקוּד, תַפְקִיד
Command, control, command, command, command, function

law
חוֹק, דִין, מִשׁפָּט, עִקָרוֹן, מִצוָה, חוּקָה
Law, Law, Judgment, Principle, Mitzvah, Constitution

precept
הוֹרָאָה, מִצוָה, עֵדוּת
Instruction, mitzvah, testimony

duty
חוֹבָה, מַס, תַפְקִיד, מֶכֶס, מְשִׁימָה, הִתחַיְבוּת
Duty, tax, function, customs, duty, obligation

behest
פְּקוּדָה, מִצוָה, צַו
Command, mitzvah, command

obligation
חוֹבָה, מְחוּיָבוּת, חָבוּת, חִיוּב, הִתקַשְׁרוּת, הִתחַיְבוּת
Obligation, Commitment, Obligation, Obligation, Commitment, Commitment

The Root: From צָוָה (H6680)
Order

3.) Statutes, Regulations
H2708 (חקותי) chuqqah

or
חֻקָּה

Bizarre things are happening at Google with this word.

I'll leave it at this: Constitution

The Root: From חֹק (H2706)
Law

4.) Laws, Teachings
H8451 (ותורתי) towrah

Translations of תוֹרָה
noun

Torah
תוֹרָה
Bible

theory
תֵאוֹרִיָה, תוֹרָה, שִׁיטָה
Theory, Torah, Method

doctrine
דוֹקטרִינָה, תוֹרָה, דוֹגמָה, שִׁיטָה, עִקָרוֹן, עִקָ
Doctrine, Torah, Example, Method, Principle, Principle

Pentateuch
חוּמָשׁ, תוֹרָה, חֲמִישָׁה חוּמָשֵׁי תוֹרָה
Pentateuch, Torah, Five Pentateuchs Torah

science
מַדָע, מַדָעֵי הַטֶבַע, תוֹרָה
Science, natural sciences, Torah

teaching
הוֹרָאָה, תוֹרָה, לֶקַח, לִמוּד, הַדְרָכָה
Teaching, Torah, Lesson, Learning, Training

lore
תוֹרָה, לִמוּד, הוֹרָאָה, יֶדַע עַם
Torah, study, teaching, knowledge with


The Root: From יָרָה (H3384)
irh (WOW! Thanks Google.)

Here's what I get from: H3384 - yarah - Strong's Hebrew Lexicon (KJV)

KJV Translation Count — Total: 84x

The KJV translates Strong's H3384 in the following manner: teach (42x), shoot (18x), archers (5x), cast (5x), teacher (4x), rain (2x), laid (1x), direct (1x), inform (1x), instructed (1x), shewed (1x), shooters (1x), through (1x), watered (1x).




Well, I'm getting a strong understanding why there are differences in the translations; but I still don't understand why our heavenly father chose these four different words.

My opinion ( and it is just that) ....

The Hebrew language has immense depth as compared to other languages .... especially the English language which honestly is quite "shallow" comparatively. Actually it is good that there are many translations and they should be compared .... provides fuller understanding in many cases when viewed as a "whole".

I think He chose the four words to get across the main point .... which is listening to His teachings/instructions (all of them of which the 3 include) and adherence to them.

I say 3 rather than 4 because "kept charge" is that of action ... of keeping/guarding/obeying the latter 3 (my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.)

That is Abraham obeyed/kept/guarded the 3.

 

[HARK!]

My opinion ( and it is just that) ....

The Hebrew language has immense depth as compared to other languages .... especially the English language which honestly is quite "shallow" comparatively. Actually it is good that there are many translations and they should be compared .... provides fuller understanding in many cases when viewed as a "whole".

The Hebrew language really does have amazing depth. This is why I included the roots of the words that I have presented so far. Hebrew words are built on roots which can help to give us the mindset behind the understanding of these words. I've been studying the otiot for years, and I've only scratched the surface in my understanding. The depth of understanding of Hebrew goes down at least as far as the very letters that compose the words. This has often prompted me to ponder whether or not the written word of Hebrew, preceded the spoken word of Hebrew.

Another consideration is that the Western mindset is built on abstract Greek philosophy. Language is an expression of how we think; and how we think, determines the nature of our language.

The Hebrew language expresses thoughts in concrete terms rather than abstract terms. Concrete words or concepts can be perceived with the five senses.

For example:

Judaism regards the violation of any of the 613 commandments as a sin. Judaism teaches that to sin is a part of life, since there is no perfect man and everyone has an inclination to do evil. Sin has many classifications and degrees, but the principal classification is that of "missing the mark" (cheit in Hebrew).[29]

Sin - Wikipedia

When an arrow is aimed at a target; and it deviates from it's path; it misses the mark.

I would have to question how deeply we can understand concrete terms from an abstract perspective. In other words, in order to better understand ancient Hebrew, I would argue that we must first think more like an ancient Hebrew.

 

[HARK!]

What I see is rulings that involve the people as a body are considered a statute. These are not in relationship to God in the direct sense but in relationship to the state of governing the body through legal processes.

stat·ute
/ˈstaCHo͞ot/

noun
plural noun: statutes

1. a written law passed by a legislative body.
   "violation of the hate crimes statute"
   
   Similar:
   law, regulation, enactment, act, bill, decree, edict, rule, ruling, resolution,
   promulgation, measure, motion, dictum, command, order, stipulation, commandment, directive, pronouncement, ratification, proclamation, dictate,
   diktat, fiat, covenant, demand, bylaw, ordinance, ukase, pronunciament.
2. a rule of an organization or institution.

I was severely disappointed at what Google did to me when I got to this word. I had spent considerable time putting the OP together.

I left it at that, to get this study started. This is a deep study. I've been looking at this, one verse, for years; and it's clear that I still don't have a clear understanding of it.

Now clearly when YHWH is saying that Abraham kept his statutes; he's not talking about some law that was arbitrarily written by some legislative body.

This is why I believe that it is important to approach this verse from an ancient Hebrew mindset.

 

[eleos1954]

The Hebrew language really does have amazing depth. This is why I included the roots of the words that I have presented so far. Hebrew words are built on roots which can help to give us the mindset behind the understanding of these words. I've been studying the otiot for years, and I've only scratched the surface in my understanding. The depth of understanding of Hebrew goes down at least as far as the very letters that compose the words. This has often prompted me to ponder whether or not the written word of Hebrew, preceded the spoken word of Hebrew.

Another consideration is that the Western mindset is built on abstract Greek philosophy. Language is an expression of how we think; and how we think, determines the nature of our language.

The Hebrew language expresses thoughts in concrete terms rather than abstract terms. Concrete words or concepts can be perceived with the five senses.

For example:

Judaism regards the violation of any of the 613 commandments as a sin. Judaism teaches that to sin is a part of life, since there is no perfect man and everyone has an inclination to do evil. Sin has many classifications and degrees, but the principal classification is that of "missing the mark" (cheit in Hebrew).[29]

Sin - Wikipedia

When an arrow is aimed at a target; and it deviates from it's path; it misses the mark.

I would have to question how deeply we can understand concrete terms from an abstract perspective. In other words, in order to better understand ancient Hebrew, I would argue that we must first think more like an ancient Hebrew.

This has often prompted me to ponder whether or not the written word of Hebrew, preceded the spoken word of Hebrew.

I'd say it would have had to be spoken first ... just my opinion. Then later using "symbols" (the written) to express the spoken.

Kindish ... maybe ... God spoke and then later it was written.

Another consideration is that the Western mindset is built on abstract Greek philosophy. Language is an expression of how we think; and how we think, determines the nature of our language.

The New Testament was written in Koine Greek which was commonly spoken by Jews. Recent archaeological discoveries have confirmed this fact which goes to show that our brother Paul, who was the "Apostle to the Gentiles", actually wrote to Greek speaking people in Greek.

Obviously ... the Lord knew we would have all these differences in languages and I firmly believe His messages and understanding penetrates through all of them.

Judaism regards the violation of any of the 613 commandments as a sin. Judaism teaches that to sin is a part of life, since there is no perfect man and everyone has an inclination to do evil. Sin has many classifications and degrees, but the principal classification is that of "missing the mark" (cheit in Hebrew).[29]

I agree with this (there is no one good .... not one) Also the inclination to sin describes mankinds sin nature. Both brought out in the Holy Bible.

Doesn't the 613 include those of the Talmud? I'm not very familar with the Talmud and although some of it is included in the Holy Bible .... some of it is not ... is that correct?

I would have to question how deeply we can understand concrete terms from an abstract perspective. In other words, in order to better understand ancient Hebrew, I would argue that we must first think more like an ancient Hebrew.

I think He has provided a basic/concise depth (which still is huge from our perspective) ... His Holy Word ... and an extended depth for those who desire to go beyond the basic/concise depth ... and there is nothing wrong with either or both.

Perhaps ... but I also believe this why much of His word is given symbolically/metaphorically/parables (in pictures) something that most everyone should be able to relate to and understand meaning of (regardless of their native language) .... and/or without the deep understanding of the Hebrew language. Pictures/symbols/metaphors transcend words in a remarkable way ... especially the way He presents them. Sometimes He blends the literal with or along with pictures/symbols/metaphors. Sometimes the literal stands alone.

The Holy Bible is a masterpiece!

Old secular saying ... yet true ... a picture is worth a thousand words.

 

[HARK!]

I'd say it would have had to be spoken first ... just my opinion. Then later using "symbols" (the written) to express the spoken.

Kindish ... maybe ... God spoke and then later it was written.

My point was, (and I don't want it to get buried in a debate on whether an egg preceded a chicken) is that Hebrew words are built on the roots, but even the very letters of the roots have meaning, which point to what is expressed in the word. We can't say this for the English language. The letters express the phonetics of the English word, nothing more; but in Hebrew, not only do the letters express the phonetics; but they lend to the definition of the word.

How can this be? Not only do the letters express the phonetics of the word; but they help to define what the word means. How could that randomly happen if the word preceded the letter?

Could this sort of code be written with letters concerning the English language? No way!

The depth is beyond genius.

 

[HARK!]

Recent archaeological discoveries have confirmed this fact which goes to show that our brother Paul, who was the "Apostle to the Gentiles", actually wrote to Greek speaking people in Greek.

Really?! We've discovered autograph manuscripts from Paul?! This should be making headlines. Do you have a link?

The Greek word αμαρτιων is used for sin. I means misses. It's a concrete term, in a language from a culture, of abstract philosophy.

 

[eleos1954]

My point was, (and I don't want it to get buried in a debate on whether an egg preceded a chicken) is that Hebrew words are built on the roots, but even the very letters of the roots have meaning, which point to what is expressed in the word. We can't say this for the English language. The letters express the phonetics of the English word, nothing more; but in Hebrew, not only do the letters express the phonetics; but they lend to the definition of the word.

How can this be? Not only do the letters express the phonetics of the word; but they help to define what the word means. How could that randomly happen if the word preceded the letter?

Could this sort of code be written with letters concerning the English language? No way!

The depth is beyond genius.

My point was, (and I don't want it to get buried in a debate on whether an egg preceded a chicken) is that Hebrew words are built on the roots, but even the very letters of the roots have meaning, which point to what is expressed in the word. We can't say this for the English language. The letters express the phonetics of the English word, nothing more; but in Hebrew, not only do the letters express the phonetics; but they lend to the definition of the word.

How can this be? Not only do the letters express the phonetics of the word; but they help to define what the word means. How could that randomly happen if the word preceded the letter?

Could this sort of code be written with letters concerning the English language? No way!

The depth is beyond genius.

How could that randomly happen if the word preceded the letter?

Certainly it was not random.

(and I don't want it to get buried in a debate on whether an egg preceded a chicken)

wasn't suggesting this.

Could this sort of code be written with letters concerning the English language? No way!

I would agree ... but also doesn't not mean the code and be translated and the meanings grasped through other languages.

The depth is beyond genius.

and I would agree ... I don't know a lot of it ... but even by getting into (using) the Hebrew and Greek lexicons I often gain better understanding (beyond english) ... and I do know even so that is just scratching the surface ... but is indeed helpful.

 

[HARK!]

I agree with this (there is no one good .... not one) Also the inclination to sin describes mankinds sin nature. Both brought out in the Holy Bible.

Doesn't the 613 include those of the Talmud? I'm not very familar with the Talmud and although some of it is included in the Holy Bible .... some of it is not ... is that correct?

Again, I would like to remind everyone of post #5.

This thread serves as more of a study of linguistics.

 

[eleos1954]

Really?! We've discovered autograph manuscripts from Paul?! This should be making headlines.

Do you have a link?

The Greek word αμαρτιων is used for sin. I means misses. It's a concrete term, in a language from a culture, of abstract philosophy.

did I say autograph? however archeology uncovered does give weight to biblical accounts.

Bible Archaeology Report

Really?! We've discovered autograph manuscripts from Paul?! This should be making headlines.

tell me .... is this comment in jest or in a demeaning/condesending nature?

 

[eleos1954]

Again, I would like to remind everyone of post #5.

This thread serves as more of a study of linguistics.

This was the title of your OP

Charge, Commandments, Statutes, and Laws

Your OP (original point) did not say ...

Lets look at linguistics ... or something similar

 

[HARK!]

and I would agree ... I don't know a lot of it

Alan Horvath presents a basic study of the otiot. It's about an hour long; but it's well worth your time. I love this man's style. He makes it fun.

 

[HARK!]

This was the title of your OP

Charge, Commandments, Statutes, and Laws

Your OP (original point) did not say ...

Lets look at linguistics ... or something similar

We shouldn't judge a book by its' cover.

The OP however presents a linguistic study. Apparently that wasn't clear to everyone; so I made that clear in post #5.

 

[eleos1954]

Alan Horvath presents a basic study of the otiot. It's about an hour long; but it's well worth your time. I love this man's style. He makes it fun.

Do you have a link?

I like Daniel Lapin ... he is informative and always treats everyone with the utmost respect ... even those who misunderstand or have differing views.

Rabbi Daniel Lapin

https://rabbidaniellapin.com/

 

[eleos1954]

We shouldn't judge a book by its' cover.

The OP however presents a linguistic study. Apparently that wasn't clear to everyone; so I made that clear in post #5.

ok ... so it was confusing from the start I guess