Changing your name...

[LuminousFive]

My fiancee, whom I love more than anything, and I had a discussion today. I was informed that she wants to take on my last name but that she wants to also keep her last name as a new middle name. She already has TWO middle names and now she wants to add a third. My problem doesn't lie with her having an extra middle name or two though. I am a little hurt by the idea of her keeping her maiden name because I feel like when we get married she takes on a new family identity. I feel like that old name is her father's name, and I want to be the only man in her life. Am I being stupid? I just feel like taking on my name and dropping her last name is the way I always thought it would happen. She always said that she was going to take on my last name when we married, but never told me that she was also going to keep her last name. At least she doesn't want to do that darn Hyphen thing! I can't stand that. (To any of you with hyphenated last names... sorry, I just can't stand that.) So yeah... am I wrong? What do you guys think? What does the bible say? Does it address this at all? How would you feel in my shoes?


Update: 30 MAR 08

Wow... I posted this and didn't read it again until now. I wanted to let it simmer, see what various people had to say about it... First and foremost, I didn't expect to be called a chauvanist, or misogynist... Come on, I love my fiancee, I respect her decision, and would never change my decision to marry her based on something as trivial as a name change. I am saddened and disappointed that the responses to this topic have been so inflamitory.

In the OP I never stated that I wouldn't marry her if she didn't change her name. I said that I was a little hurt because I always thought it would be a given that she would just take my name and that would be it.

For all of you dissenters, you will be happy to know that we have come to a resolution and that she will be changing one of her middle names to her maiden name. I have decided that its not that big a deal. I was just surprised and a little hurt.

I won't, however, be posting any further questions in the marraige thread because I don't feel that this has been a supportive community. The attacks on my character, the insults to what sort of marraige I am building, and the complete lack of respect in many of the responses has lead me to believe that I have nothing to gain by posting on here. Sad.

In Christ,
John

 

[alfrodull]

What reason does she give for wanting to do so? In my case, keeping my middle name as it is would result in my full name becoming a thinly-masked innuendo. At this point, my maiden name is looking like the most meaningful alternative.

She's taking your last name, so it's not like she's having issues taking on your family identity. She may just want to preserve her own in the process...After all, you're being welcomed into her family as much as she's being welcomed into yours. It may not even has as much to do with family as it does individual identity. I never really knew my father, but I'm still attached to my name because it's been a part of me all my life.

Honestly, I think the entire name-changing custom is silly, because it does place one family over the other. I'd never expect my fiance to take part in any arbitrary cultural tradition unless he really wanted to, and I wouldn't be able to marry anyone who insisted I did.

 

[whatisyourstory]

Is there a reason she wants to keep her last name as part of her name? Did you ask her the reason behind it? As for the only man in her life thing, a girls dad is usually the first man she ever loved, so for some, it's hard to give all of that up. Next, God should always be the #1 man in her life. I hope you encourage her to keep a tight relationship with Him and that the both of you grow together in a married relationship with God. He's the only one that will always 100% be there for you.


I took my husbands last name and am very proud to have it. There wasn't any reason for me to hold onto my old last name. I have a new life now with my DH and am very honored to be his wife.

If this is a really big issue for you, sit down with her and let her know why. Also, ask her to explain to you why she feels the way she does. Maybe you can both see it from the other persons side and come to a decision that both of you will be happy with.

 

[snoochface]

This is a very traditional thing to do, actually. In fact, almost every married woman I know has done this. It's very, very common. I'm not sure why you're worrying about it, really.

 

[Kris10leigh]

I would just suggest treading lightly on her feelings on this one.

I took my husband's name 10 years ago and STILL do not identify as the person I am named. I do miss my maiden name because that's who I was for 23 years of life. Before I was married I was a student, an adventurer, a well respected flautist, a writer. I won awards, was honored, won competitions. I did a great deal of things that made who I am today. Now, I am a wife and a mother and I have a job. That is who I became but not who I am. That's hard to express.

Just tread lightly. Some women really identify with their last night and it's hard to give it up.

 

[Rebekka]

Wow - I don't understand why it would bother you. Do you change your name after you marry?

If your answer is no, then you do less than your fiancée does. It's a big deal to change your name. I can understand that she wants to keep some of her old name, because changing your name entirely may feel to some like giving up your identity. Her "official" last name will be your name, so you "win" this thing anyway.

I'm one of those annoying hyphenating wives by the way. But in most situations I only use my maiden name. My husband doesn't complain, and shouldn't: after all, his name didn't change when he married me.

If I had to do it all over again, I think I'd ask my fiancé to add my name to his, with a hyphen in between. So we'd both have the same last names.

 

[JulySheMustFly]

Am I being stupid?

Yes.

It isn't a sign of keeping her father as the man in her life. It is actually a rather traditional thing to do. Most of the women I know dropped their birth middle name and replaced it with their maiden name. This seems to be especially true in families that have no sons.

 

[OnTheWay]

It sounds very possessive and immature to be honest with you. You're not the only man in her life and you're never going to be. It really sounds like this name thing is just a sympthom of a deeper need to be this woman's "sole possessor." That's not really a good thing....

 

[Hadassah]

Well, depending on your area, and the area she's from... and the culture both of you come from (and the name changes), would make a lot of more sense in coming to understand it all.

When I lived in Spain, the area we lived, women kept their maiden name and passed it on to their children... total contrast to what I'd grown up with -- women getting married and taking on the new family name & progeny having the last name of the father (except in the miltiary community where you had folks who either hyphenated or kept their maiden name or somehow otherwise joined last names other than the 'traditional' norm).

Here in Germany I had the option when we got married to either completely change my name (add in middle name or new last name), take on DH's last name, hyphenate or both of us take both last names.

From the culture both of us have, it only made sense for me to take on his last name... so that's what we did.

IMHO, there's no 100% one size fits all answer. Culture and background is key too.

 

[immersedingrace]

To my knowledge, the bible does not address name changes upon marriage and the only one changing names (except Naomi ) was God who changed Abram to Abraham; Sarai to Sarah; Saul to Paul.

How would you feel changing your name? Would you feel that it would make you love your wife more? Would it feel like your mom was no longer an important part of your life (which is what you're implying she should do with her dad)? Would you be willing to create a new last name for the two of you to share in order to start your lives together? It could be a combination of your current last names or completely new. However, I'm guessing that you are NOT willing to do that yet you expect her to give up her name very easily. Aside from giving up her name, the first thing she needs to do when she returns from the honey moon is go through all the red tape to change her name on her Social Security Card, Driver's License, Car Registration, Any credit cards/bank accounts, and her passport. She may even need to change it on any degrees/licenses/certificates that she has ever earned in order to use her married name at work. On top of all that, she has to get used to hearing everyone call her Mrs. So & So. You've always been Mr. So & So. She was always Miss/Ms. Lillypo. Believe me, it gets frustrating. I had my signature down to a science...Now I have to stop and think and be careful not to write the wrong name on the wrong check because my new account has my married name and all the credit cards are in that name. YOU try that and then ask me if you're bein unreasonable (stupid, no, unreasonable YES)

Keeping your maiden name as a middle name is a way for many women to maintain the identity they have always had. It's what I did. Giving up my maiden name would have been like giving up a huge chunk of who I've been for 35 1/2 years before getting married. Thankfully my husband respected that and didn't expect me to drop it altogether. H admitted to me when we were discussing this, that he would be upset if I didn't take his last name but he would respect it because of why I would want to. He didn't want to take my last name because he's kind of attached to it as well. Besides his dad died within the last few years so I understood that.

Some cultures (Chinese, Korean, etc) the women don't take on their husbands last name at all. they always maintain their birthname. In some cultures (Spain) both men and women typically have use their paternal and maternal last names ( Angel Marin Lopez - would mean Marin was dad's surname and Lopez was mom's surname). In Japan, if the wife's family has no sons, the man may take HER surname. Look here for what other cultures do about the whole name changing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Née

I can't find anything online right now but I know I've read before that men would often take their wives last name if her family had more money or more prestige.

So, again, you are being unreasonable. HER last name means as much to her as YOURS apparently means to you.

 

[Adamantium]

It is quite old fashioned and traditional for a woman to keep her maiden name as her middle name.

And yes, you're being unreasonable for getting upset about it. A person's name carries their history and identity. Be glad your wife wants to spend her life with you, and honor her family name, because those people made her the woman you love.

 

[ImperialPhantom]

Dude, she's marrying you and taking on your last name. If you have any issue whatsoever with you keeping her own last name as a middle name, that's putting meaningless traditions over her wishes. Why would you, as a husband, put a tradition that you can't even name the genesis of, above her?

 

[Autumnleaf]

If my wife wanted to do something like that I'm not sure I would have married her. When people get married a change is supposed to happen where the husband becomes the man in the woman's life. She leaves her father's house. Something doesn't sit right with me if she insists on keeping his name. Its a sign of holding on to something she should be trading in without regret or second thoughts. If it were me I'd be concerned.

 

[snoochface]

If my wife wanted to do something like that I'm not sure I would have married her. When people get married a change is supposed to happen where the husband becomes the man in the woman's life. She leaves her father's house. Something doesn't sit right with me if she insists on keeping his name. Its a sign of holding on to something she should be trading in without regret or second thoughts. If it were me I'd be concerned.

She's not keeping her father's name. She's taking her husband's name. It's just her middle name she wants to have as her maiden name. And really, how often is she going to use her middle name anyway? Tax forms? It's a very traditional thing to do after marriage.

 

[immersedingrace]

If my wife wanted to do something like that I'm not sure I would have married her. When people get married a change is supposed to happen where the husband becomes the man in the woman's life. She leaves her father's house. Something doesn't sit right with me if she insists on keeping his name. Its a sign of holding on to something she should be trading in without regret or second thoughts. If it were me I'd be concerned.

I KNOW I wouldn't have married a man who didn't respect the fact that I have an identity separate from him and that marriage does not, in anyway change that identity, it enhances it. If a man can't respect his intended, she shouldn't be marrying him in the first place. If a man claims to love her, he will at least listen to the reasons behind why she would want to keep her name. On your theory, she should change her first, middle AND last name to change her identity completely because her parents (and in my case my father specifically) named her. When a woman gets married, her father doesn't cease being her father and where is there any law that says she SHOULD be giving up her name. It's based on outdated tradition where men considered women property. I'd definitely not marry a man who thought of me as his property.

 

[Antje]

LOL, you could be describing me! I took my maiden name as my *third* middle name as well. I know it's a little ridiculous to have that many names, but I just couldn't drop any of them! I figure that marriage is about adding something to your identity, not about taking something away.

Also, my husband took my maiden name as an additional middle name. I didn't see why I should be the only one changing my name! I joined his family, he joined my family. So we changed our names to reflect that new identity.

However, I also think family unity is important, which is why we have the same last name now, and our kids will also have our last name. That way people can call us the "Smiths" without excluding anyone.

Mostly, I agree with the person who said there is no one-size-fits-all solution. Talk it out and do what seems best for you as a couple.

And for crying out loud, her father doesn't own her! And neither will you. Get used to it.

 

[cherryblossom03]

I kept my maiden name as my middle name when I married. I talked to my husband and he said he was fine with it. He knew I loved him and that my keeping my maiden name wasn't going to change that. He knows I did it to honor my father who passed away before we were married.

 

[whatisyourstory]

I had never heard of a woman keeping her maiden name as a middle name. Seems very strange to me, probably because no one around here does it. Women either take their husbands names and drop theirs, or do the hyphen thing.

 

[Mskedi]

I am a little hurt by the idea of her keeping her maiden name because I feel like when we get married she takes on a new family identity. I feel like that old name is her father's name, and I want to be the only man in her life. Am I being stupid?

Yes.

If you think she confuses her feelings for her father with her feelings for you, then either your fiance is really messed up or you are really insecure.

She IS adding your name to hers, and she doesn't even have to do that. I didn't change my name when I got married. It, to me, is an outdated tradition. It certainly does not mean I love my husband any less than any wife who did change her name loves her husband.

 

[Cordy]

I have seen some very nice and reasonable guys get in a pickle about this. It seems like in this one area, it is simply expected that men have a certain right and women don’t (I don’t think they realize often realize the incredible imbalance in this, because the whole thing is cloaked in tradition). But that is essentially what it sometimes comes down to:

Expectation on women:
- abandon name
- abandon historical connection in identity
- take on her husband's identity

Expectations for men
- keep name for whole life
- keep historical connection to his family in his identity
- that he has a right that his wife abandon her identity for him (he has a right to receive something he does not give in return).

When a wife keeps her name, or somehow combines her name with her husband, the man sometimes feels that this "right" is infringed. I think this is an extremely unrealistic and, well, selfish expectation. I don’t know how many times I have watched men get all upset, to the point of questioning what kind of spouse their wife will be, because she does not cheerfully follow these expectation.

I don’t think that that the guys who expect this are stupid. I simply think they grew up with this very unbalanced expectation. They just never seemed to have put themselves in the other person’s shoes and truly consider what it might mean for someone else to completely abandon their identity. I don't think they sometimes realize that they do not have a right in someone else's identity -- not any more than a wife would have in expecting her husband to change his name to hers.

If a woman wants to change her name, that is fine, but I do not think it is fair for her husband to expect her to. I don’t think a women needs a good reason to keep her name, a good reason not to take her husband’s last name, or a good reason to hyphenate. If that is true, that a man should also be prepared to provide a good reason as to why he is not taking his wife’s name, as well. The one-sided reasoning is ridiculous.