No, no, I was talking about the NT prophesies about the coming of Jesus a second time. There is no reference to a second coming in the OT, which is my point.Sorry, but would you mind posting the OT prophecy which describes his second coming?
There are, but in those prophesies do they say fulfillment on his first coming or second? No.
In fact, many Jews reject Jesus because he did not fulfill all the Messianic prophesies.
I think we are talking past each other.Second Coming
SECOND COMING, the future return of Christ to the earth. A prominent doctrine of Christology, the predicted Second Advent of Christ is implied in hundreds of OT prophecies of future judgment on the world and a coming kingdom of righteousness on earth and is explicitly detailed in major NT passages. The last book of the Bible, the Revelation of Jesus Christ, refers specifically to His Second Coming itself (ch. 19), and the millennium and future state which follows (20-22).
1. General OT references. The OT presents a mingled prophecy of the first and second advents of Christ (cf. 1 Pet 1:10-12), often combining both comings in the same context (Isa 61:1-3; Luke 4:17-20). The first reference to the Second Coming is found in Deuteronomy 30:3 in the KJV rendering where it is predicted, “Then the Lord thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations whither the Lord thy God hath scattered thee.” The RSV obscures this prophecy by paraphrasing the expression “will return” by the tr. “will restore your fortunes.” The “return” results in their regathering to their ancient land and their spiritual and physical restoration. This is typical of OT prophecies of the Second Advent. The OT seldom pictures the Second Coming per se, but often dwells upon the circumstances of the Second Coming, such as the preceding regathering of Israel to the land (Jer 30:3; Amos 9:14, 15), and the results of the Second Coming—the judgment of the nations (Isa 2:4), deliverance of Israel (Jer 31:28), and a kingdom of righteousness and peace on earth (Ps 72:7).
2. Second Coming in the Psalms. The Second Coming of Christ is linked with the moral struggle between God and His creatures. Psalm 2 for instance, after picturing the world’s rejection of the sovereignty of God, declares God’s purpose, “I have set my king on Zion, my holy hill.” In the vv. which follow, the decree of God is stated concerning His purpose to place His Son over the nations, to subdue the nations “with a rod of iron, and dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel” (2:9). On the basis of God’s intention to make His Son the King of the earth, the exhortation to earthly kings is “serve the Lord with fear, with trembling kiss his feet” (2:11). The conclusion is reached “Blessed are all who take refuge in him” (2:12). This psalm is typical of the OT passages relating to the Second Coming. The event itself is assumed, but the results are detailed.
Psalm 24 is another great passage dealing with Christ’s coming as “the King of glory.” The gates of Jerusalem are exhorted to open to this King when He comes. His rule on the earth is based on the promise of Psalm 24:1, “The earth is the Lord’s and the fulness thereof, the world and those who dwell therein.”
Another complete presentation of the Second Coming of Christ and its result is found in Psalm 72, presented in the form of a prayer, but describing the certain results of Christ’s return. His dominion is described as “from sea to sea” (72:8). Kings and nations are described as serving Him (72:11). Psalm 72 ends with the prayer, “May his glory fill the whole earth!” Although in the form of an inspired prayer, it clearly anticipates fulfillment.
Other psalms are similar in character such as Psalm 96 which declares, “The Lord reigns!” (vs. 10), and states “For he comes, for he comes to judge the earth” (vs. 13). The present position of Christ seated at the right hand of the Father in Psalm 110:1, 2 is considered temporary, for the day will come when “the Lord sends forth from Zion your mighty scepter” and “will execute judgment among the nations” (110:2, 6).
3. Second Coming in the Prophets. The major prophets take up the same theme of the coming of the Lord to reign. A familiar text is Isaiah 9:6, 7where it declares, “Of the increase of his government and of peace there will be no end, upon the throne of David, and over his kingdom” (vs. 7). The rule of the Messiah on earth is described in Isaiah 11 as one of complete righteousness and justice, of tranquility in nature, with universal knowledge of the Lord. Isaiah prays for the coming of the Lord (Isa 64:1), “O that thou wouldest rend the heavens and come down, that the mountains might quake at thy presence.” Isaiah’s great prophecy concludes in chs. 65; 66with a description of the reign of Christ on earth and the judgments which relate to it.
Jeremiah speaks of the results of the Lord’s coming when the Son of David “shall reign as king and deal wisely, and shall execute justice and righteousness in the land” (Jer 23:5). The judgments and tribulation which precede the Second Coming are followed by the deliverance of Israel according to Jeremiah 30; 31, and many other prophecies in Jeremiah deal with the ultimate triumph of God during the reign of Christ. The presentation of the right to rule over the earth following His Second Coming is described in Daniel 7:13, 14, where the Son of man is given dominion over the entire earth and an everlasting kingdom.
One of the most specific references to the Second Coming in the OT is in Zechariah 14:3-5. The Lord is described as fighting in defense of Israel, and the statement is made, “On that day his feet shall stand on the Mount of Olives, which lies before Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives shall be split in two from east to west by a very wide valley; so that one half of the Mount shall withdraw northward, and the other half southward.” The revelation goes on to picture that “the Lordwill become king over all the earth; on that day the Lord will be one and his name one” (Zech 14:9).
I think we are talking past each other.
You are not understanding my point.
Once again, I agree that the OT talks about the Second Coming, but it does not specify the second coming. When reading those prophesies there is no mention of the second coming specifically, it just says the Messiah will do those things.Explain yourself then. You said that it’s plausible that Jesus comes three times because the OT doesn’t mention the second coming. I was showing that indeed the OT does prophesy concerning the second coming.
Hi all. I recently watched a video about a person who had changed his mind regarding his stance on pre-trib rapture. The video made some interesting points about just how difficult it is to change the way we perceive important, spiritual truths, especially when that change requires us to face difficult challenges.
The video is about 12 minutes long and I'd like to hear what others think. The Typology I believe is in the last half of the presentation. I shared this on Facebook 4 years back because I thought the info on the typology was educational as far as general Bible knowledge and Eschatology is concerned.
based on the Typology of the Jewish Wedding Feast.
Once again, I agree that the OT talks about the Second Coming, but it does not specify the second coming. When reading those prophesies there is no mention of the second coming specifically, it just says the Messiah will do those things.
When reading the account from before the life of Christ you would never have known it was speaking about the Second Coming.It doesn’t seem like you are really making any point here. I have already shown that the second coming is in OT prophecy and you already said that you agree. So what is the point of this nonsense?
Would you mind elaborating on how this relates?
I'm not a Pre-triber but this guy has made the best case for it that I have every heard, based on the Typology of the Jewish Wedding Feast.
It is worth while if you are interested in the general topic of Pre-trib
I've heard a lot of arguments for it. Probably the only good thing about the pre-trib position is the idea that you should be prepared to meet Jesus at any time, although even then, most of its supporters do not practice the teachings of Jesus. The pre-trib rapture is wishful thinking; it is the hope that they will not need to suffer for their faith.
I understand that no one wants to suffer, and yet standing up against greed and fear will almost always result in suffering. I'm not particularly interested in videos which promote wishful thinking. That's not a slight against you, but rather the concept. If you feel there is a particularly interesting part of the video, maybe you could summarize it here?
WHEN? I don't care.
But the fact that Farag can make the case for his position based on the specifics of the Jewish traditions, and how they relate to the End Times and some other specifics makes a much better case than all the Hall Lindsey folks etc.
This is what I'd like you to elaborate on; what case does he make?
I think this thread is mistitled. It should have something about not believing in a pre-trib rapture.
I would not say uncomfortable, because I am certain of my rapture view, the anytime rapture view. The rapture timing window is in the shaded area. I am just saying the thread title is misleading.Does the title make you feel uncomfortable?
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