Change to the Appeals process, changes to Staff and a few other things

[PreachersWife2004]

Actually, when you're banned, you don't have access to the Advisors. I found that out during my week off. You can't do anything but post in the Complaint Box. And, if they delete your thread, you are hosed. There is no PM.

Then I would have to ask what you did in the thread to provoke it being deleted.

 

[Tonks]

I'm not sure that this is entirely helpful, PW.

Contact Us always works, too, and we check that daily.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

I'm not sure that this is entirely helpful, PW.

No, it's just showing that we're getting half the story.

Contact Us always works, too, and we check that daily.

Yup.

The bottom line is that there are ways to contact the advisors when a person has been banned.

 

[Davidnic]

For a long time. Both on staff and off I have said that a key to fixing anything about CF is to refill the reservoir of goodwill between members and staff. That's been bone dry for sometime. But we need it to have any real progress.

But, for what my opinion is worth, I think that is genuinely being attempted right now and I applaud those dialoging on both ends toward that goal. And the many who have worked hard towards that goal in ways we will not see.

I know many who feel they were hurt or mistreated in the past will be very cautious and doubtful (in the least) of the possibility any real and substantial changes.

For those who know me, I really and in good faith, urge that the benefit of the doubt be extended until you see whatever is being worked up on issues like appeals. Extend that benefit cautiously but extend it. And for those working on all of this, know in many cases there is a fragile goodwill for many. But I am sure that is known.

But in the end, the paradox is that to refill the empty reservoir of goodwill, we need to extend to each other...goodwill. On a Christian board, that is the least we should be able to do.

 

[CaDan]

I'm not sure that this is entirely helpful, PW.

No, it's not. But it is expected.

 

[CaDan]

No, it's just showing that we're getting half the story.

Don't include me in that "we".

 

[PreachersWife2004]

No, it's not. But it is expected.

And how are YOU helping things here, CaDan?

 

[BelindaP]

Then I would have to ask what you did in the thread to provoke it being deleted.

I dunno. Edial just closed it for review and never got back to me.

 

[BelindaP]

And how are YOU helping things here, CaDan?

If you can't see that, I honestly don't know what to say.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

If you can't see that, I honestly don't know what to say.

Really...

You really think that someone beating a dead horse over and over again every time we have one of these threads is "helping"?

Let me say it one last time, and maybe it will sink in. Those who are banned have access to the advisors. It is the advisor's decision as to whether they can come back. People here continually "campaigning", even for unnamed banned people, aren't going to get them back. This isn't the thread for it, and continually bringing it up here is just going to get someone in trouble.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

For a long time. Both on staff and off I have said that a key to fixing anything about CF is to refill the reservoir of goodwill between members and staff. That's been bone dry for sometime. But we need it to have any real progress.

But, for what my opinion is worth, I think that is genuinely being attempted right now and I applaud those dialoging on both ends toward that goal. And the many who have worked hard towards that goal in ways we will not see.

I know many who feel they were hurt or mistreated in the past will be very cautious and doubtful (in the least) of the possibility any real and substantial changes.

For those who know me, I really and in good faith, urge that the benefit of the doubt be extended until you see whatever is being worked up on issues like appeals. Extend that benefit cautiously but extend it. And for those working on all of this, know in many cases there is a fragile goodwill for many. But I am sure that is known.

But in the end, the paradox is that to refill the empty reservoir of goodwill, we need to extend to each other...goodwill. On a Christian board, that is the least we should be able to do.

Although you and I aren't on the "same page" on some theological stuff, I've always highly respected you as a poster and staffer (and sorry to see you now off staff).

I agree with much of what you've posted here. Truth is (sadly), many have scars and wounds that are raw. Most of those have left, some remained, some eventually wondered back (and, believe me, are tentative). One of the personal things I'm really working on in my life is learning how to let the past be past (easier said than done, lol). And protecting that heart - when needed (that seems even harder).

Funny thing, websites. In reality, we don't even know each other. Just electronic images on a monitor forming words, that's all. In reality, this is a personal website of a man we've never met. And yet - it IS a community. And in communities, stuff happens. People relate (well or poorly). People sin (constantly). Sometimes, we forgive and love (inperfectly, infrequently). Relationships are formed and sometimes shattered (the latter seems unusually easy on the net). Things are sometimes posted or put in PM's that I doubt we'd say face-to-face.

We're like a church - without the advantage of actual, face-to-face relationships. And those of us who have lived our lives in churches know how sour things can go in churches. Surprising and ironic as that may be.

I've been amazingly (and I often feel blissfully) out of the loop for over two years. I honestly don't know what Staff has been up to - and I've very rarely NEEDED to know anything about Staff or rules or processes (thanks be to God). But I remember. Maybe I need to forget.

Tonks is good people, and I honestly think all involved in this are good people. I pray daily for this site. I've regained my hope for CF.

I'm willing to see. And do all I can to put the best construction on things. Forgive me, I pray, if any scars hinder that. I'm working on it.


Pax


- Josiah




.

 

[CaDan]

And how are YOU helping things here, CaDan?

I keep hope alive.

 

[Uphill Battle]

Really...

You really think that someone beating a dead horse over and over again every time we have one of these threads is "helping"?

Let me say it one last time, and maybe it will sink in. Those who are banned have access to the advisors. It is the advisor's decision as to whether they can come back. People here continually "campaigning", even for unnamed banned people, aren't going to get them back. This isn't the thread for it, and continually bringing it up here is just going to get someone in trouble.

I dunno about that mindset.

although that particular issue isn't my fight (since I don't know who the permabanned are) I still think the "never talk about that dead horse again" attitude is flawed.

although THIS doesn't reach anywhere near the same scope, where would the world be without those who WOULDN'T stop whipping the deceased equine?

if there were no Martin Luthors, or Luthor king juniors? What about the early church, and it's fight against heretical teachings?

what about equal rights, civil rights, womans sufferage....

like I said, CF isn't at all up to that level... but frankly, if people didn't refrain from shutting up about what other people didn't want to hear, you wouldn't be able to vote. If you happen to be black, you'd likely be cleaning someones house for no pay. Etcetera Etcetera, but you get the point.

 

[CaDan]

Really...

You really think that someone beating a dead horse over and over again every time we have one of these threads is "helping"?

Let me say it one last time, and maybe it will sink in. Those who are banned have access to the advisors. It is the advisor's decision as to whether they can come back. People here continually "campaigning", even for unnamed banned people, aren't going to get them back. This isn't the thread for it, and continually bringing it up here is just going to get someone in trouble.

Is that your interpretation? I must have misspoken.

My intent is to persuade the advisors to submit themselves to the rule of law. I may or may not be successful in that. But I can at least try.

If I fail and eat a perma-ban, then I eat it in good conscience.

I am willing to wait and see how the new appeals procedure works out. What I would like to see is a clear statement from someone with authority to make that statement about whether that appeals procedure will be open to all banned members or only to a few.

 

[CaDan]

Oh, and speaking of dead horses . . . .

The hand of the LORD was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the LORD, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones, and caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry.

And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord GOD, thou knowest.

Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD.

Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:

And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone.

And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them.

Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.

So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.
​

 

[Uphill Battle]

Oh, and speaking of dead horses . . . .

The hand of the LORD was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the LORD, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones, and caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry.

And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord GOD, thou knowest.

Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD.

Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:

And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone.

And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them.

Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.

So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.
​

W00T.

 

[Davidnic]

Although you and I aren't on the "same page" on some theological stuff, I've always highly respected you as a poster and staffer (and sorry to see you now off staff).
.

Thank you very much Josiah. I would be on staff, but the new little one and my wife deserve my time more than anything else. I am sad to not be contributing to things and trying to help out, but not regretful...not when I hold the baby

I try to contribute as a positive poster when I have time to be around.

 

[pgp_protector]

Too bad banning and such can't go like Correcting a Believer in the Bible.

15 “If another believer[a] sins against you, go privately and point out the offense. If the other person listens and confesses it, you have won that person back. 16 But if you are unsuccessful, take one or two others with you and go back again, so that everything you say may be confirmed by two or three witnesses. 17 If the person still refuses to listen, take your case to the church. Then if he or she won’t accept the church’s decision, treat that person as a pagan or a corrupt tax collector.


We always seem to stop short of this last step.

 

[Uphill Battle]

Too bad banning and such can't go like Correcting a Believer in the Bible.

15 “If another believer[a] sins against you, go privately and point out the offense. If the other person listens and confesses it, you have won that person back. 16 But if you are unsuccessful, take one or two others with you and go back again, so that everything you say may be confirmed by two or three witnesses. 17 If the person still refuses to listen, take your case to the church. Then if he or she won’t accept the church’s decision, treat that person as a pagan or a corrupt tax collector.


We always seem to stop short of this last step.

I don't think we typically get to the FIRST step.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

I don't think we typically get to the FIRST step.

It's a little harder in an online community, though. I would totally feel comfortable emailing you personally and saying "hey, your posts here violates the rules, you should probably edit it". I probably have at some point in time, too.

That comfort level extends to most posters here. But it doesn't mean I PM everyone before their post is reported. For one, I'm fairly certain that some posters wouldn't take the PM in the spirit that it was sent. For another, it'd be pretty hard to PM everyone before their post is reported.

It IS part of the reason that we instituted the counseling PM before issuing a warning.