Change to the Appeals process, changes to Staff and a few other things

[CaDan]

It's like the saying "guns don't kill people, people kill people." Same principle, CaDan. CF doesn't ban people...people's actions get them banned.

That is not true in all cases. You know it, I know it. You know that I know that you know that Tonks knows.

We are all very knowledgeable.

 

[CaDan]

yayyyyy!! Chrisbot!!!! *dances around cyber room with Chris*

That's not Chrisbot. It is an imposter. The real Chrisbot knows the countersign to "Are we there yet?"

 

[PreachersWife2004]

That is not true in all cases. You know it, I know it. You know that I know that you know that Tonks knows.

We are all very knowledgeable.

I know that whenever someone has been banned, their actions merited it. I might've agreed up and down with what they were saying, but they chose to act in a way that went against this site. That is what I know. But I know that you know that Tonks knows that I know that you know.

And so on and so forth...

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny
yayyyyy!! Chrisbot!!!! *dances around cyber room with Chris*

That's not Chrisbot. It is an imposter. The real Chrisbot knows the countersign to "Are we there yet?"

Awww where's Chrisbot? And who am i dancin with?

 

[CaDan]

I know that whenever someone has been banned, their actions merited it. I might've agreed up and down with what they were saying, but they chose to act in a way that went against this site. That is what I know. But I know that you know that Tonks knows that I know that you know.

And so on and so forth...

We all have knives. It's 1183 and we're barbarians!

Look: You can run out your defense however you like. I realize you like order and view disruption of order as a bad thing. What you say really doesn't matter. What matters is that the advisors have perma-banned people for personal reasons and will not allow them to appeal. Until the advisors are willing to submit themselves to the rules of this site, the new appeal system is just a bandaid.

I am quite aware of the response I will get to this challenge--"We don't answer to you!" Of course you don't. You answer to your God and your consciences.

 

[desmalia]

Sounds like somebody needs a lollipop.
Here ya go.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

We all have knives. It's 1183 and we're barbarians!

Of course we all have knives!! We always have knives!

Look: You can run out your defense however you like. I realize you like order and view disruption of order as a bad thing. What you say really doesn't matter. What matters is that the advisors have perma-banned people for personal reasons and will not allow them to appeal. Until the advisors are willing to submit themselves to the rules of this site, the new appeal system is just a bandaid.

You will, of course, believe what you want about why the advisors have permabanned people. I'm not an advisor, so you are correct that it doesn't matter what I say. Of course, even before now, advisor bans were not technically appealable, although I know several who have returned from these types of permabans. These new rules and appeals processes don't change anything in terms of advisor bans. And hey, again, to warrant an advisor ban, you gotta get the attention of the advisors, and that takes more than gracious conversation.

I am quite aware of the response I will get to this challenge--"We don't answer to you!" Of course you don't. You answer to your God and your consciences.

Well, ideally, we do answer to you somewhat because you are a member here at CF. However, that doesn't mean you'll always get what you ask for. And as cliche as it sounds, people really should be careful what they ask for. Bringing back so-and-so from advisor exile might also mean bringing back that other so-and-so. Equality and all that mucky muck.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Now I'm hungry...

Sounds like somebody needs a lollipop.
Here ya go.

 

[CaDan]

Well, ideally, we do answer to you somewhat because you are a member here at CF. However, that doesn't mean you'll always get what you ask for. And as cliche as it sounds, people really should be careful what they ask for. Bringing back so-and-so from advisor exile might also mean bringing back that other so-and-so. Equality and all that mucky muck.

I'm cool with that.

 

[CaDan]

Sounds like somebody needs a lollipop.
Here ya go.

Suckers!

/Precious Roy

 

[brinny]

Sounds like somebody needs a lollipop.
Here ya go.

Oooo i'll take da pink one

 

[Bombila]

I know that whenever someone has been banned, their actions merited it. I might've agreed up and down with what they were saying, but they chose to act in a way that went against this site. That is what I know. But I know that you know that Tonks knows that I know that you know.

And so on and so forth...

I know that some people have beeen wronged in this manner. I have seen astoundingly cruel things written on CF which violated no site rules, and I know former members whose words were never cruel who have been permabanned.

I know that as an ordinary member who has never chosen to try to get on staff. What, then, do staff, with access to the records of the site, know?

It is not right, IMO, to dismiss Ca-Dan's words lightly. 'It's just a message board, go somewhere else' is dismissive also, and ignores that some bans have caused real grief. We aren't talking about trolls here, we're talking about sincere people who attracted the dislike of people who could make them 'go away'.

 

[Chaplain David]

I know that whenever someone has been banned, their actions merited it. I might've agreed up and down with what they were saying, but they chose to act in a way that went against this site. That is what I know. But I know that you know that Tonks knows that I know that you know.

And so on and so forth...

This claim to staff perfection is rediculous. No one is perfect and all make errors. Frankly, if you want to talk about people deserving to be banned by their actions, one needs only to look at the actions of some staff, leadership included. I've seen so much "do as I say, not as I do" here that if I had a dollar for every instance I could take a long vacation.

 

[Uphill Battle]

I retract my whining on this thread.

I still do not agree with all the changes, however, I apologise to staff for my likely aggravating rhetoric.

My addition to the problems doesn't help them.

cheers.

 

[psalms 91]

As someone who has been around awhile I will agree that staff does not always set the best example but I am willing to understand that they are human and prone to mistakes as well. The reason I posted is that I have someone who communicated that they could not appeal a ban because it was given by the advisors and my question is why as drastic an action as banning is that any ban could not be appealed? Would seem to me that it is possible that some infractions along the way might have gonme overboard and if not then whats the harm in a review? Also I am praying that the vision that Pauler shared will also contain some of the mercy anf grace that Jesus died so we could have, it seems to be one quality that is in short supply within the church and christians at times. We all sin and nomne are perfect and by the measure that we judge so also shall we be judged.

 

[Tonks]

As someone who has been around awhile I will agree that staff does not always set the best example but I am willing to understand that they are human and prone to mistakes as well. The reason I posted is that I have someone who communicated that they could not appeal a ban because it was given by the advisors and my question is why as drastic an action as banning is that any ban could not be appealed? Would seem to me that it is possible that some infractions along the way might have gonme overboard and if not then whats the harm in a review? Also I am praying that the vision that Pauler shared will also contain some of the mercy anf grace that Jesus died so we could have, it seems to be one quality that is in short supply within the church and christians at times. We all sin and nomne are perfect and by the measure that we judge so also shall we be judged.

send me a pm with the info.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

I know that some people have beeen wronged in this manner. I have seen astoundingly cruel things written on CF which violated no site rules, and I know former members whose words were never cruel who have been permabanned.

I know that as an ordinary member who has never chosen to try to get on staff. What, then, do staff, with access to the records of the site, know?

I think you may have just answered your own question. There's a lot that goes on outside of the regular open forums, not in public. You can't judge what the staff does only on the merits of what's posted in the open forums.

It is not right, IMO, to dismiss Ca-Dan's words lightly. 'It's just a message board, go somewhere else' is dismissive also, and ignores that some bans have caused real grief. We aren't talking about trolls here, we're talking about sincere people who attracted the dislike of people who could make them 'go away'.

I'm not being dismissive at all. But to beat the same dead horse over and over does absolutely no good. The people who are banned have access to the advisors. It's the advisors decision whether to allow them back on.

In terms of "it's a message board, go elsewhere", I've never worded it that way because that's not the message I'm sending. The message I'm sending is that there are always people who will be unhappy with what CF does, no matter what. It's not directed at one person or another in this thread. It's a general observation that those who won't be happy no matter what should go start their own site so that they CAN be happy.

This claim to staff perfection is rediculous. No one is perfect and all make errors. Frankly, if you want to talk about people deserving to be banned by their actions, one needs only to look at the actions of some staff, leadership included. I've seen so much "do as I say, not as I do" here that if I had a dollar for every instance I could take a long vacation.

You're reading wayyy too much into what I wrote. I never said staff was perfect. And I've noticed that when a mistake was made, the current team of advisors is VERY quick to fix it. Of course everyone makes mistakes. The true measure of a person's integrity is how they fix that mistake.

That being said, just because YOU (or someone else) believe the advisors made mistake doesn't make it a fact.

 

[Tonks]

We all have knives. It's 1183 and we're barbarians!

Look: You can run out your defense however you like. I realize you like order and view disruption of order as a bad thing. What you say really doesn't matter. What matters is that the advisors have perma-banned people for personal reasons and will not allow them to appeal. Until the advisors are willing to submit themselves to the rules of this site, the new appeal system is just a bandaid.

I am quite aware of the response I will get to this challenge--"We don't answer to you!" Of course you don't. You answer to your God and your consciences.

And if we let them appeal...and it is still decided to keep it in force...what then? Not a valid appeal because you're appealing to your "accusers"?

The new system isn't even public yet (as it is not finished). You can continue to complain about the old system but I'm guessing that most of your criticisms will be fairly irrelevant with the new one.

Yes, I know "show me." Got it. Just need the time to actually do it rather than answering questions about an old system...

 

[Chaplain David]

I think you may have just answered your own question. There's a lot that goes on outside of the regular open forums, not in public. You can't judge what the staff does only on the merits of what's posted in the open forums.

I'm not being dismissive at all. But to beat the same dead horse over and over does absolutely no good. The people who are banned have access to the advisors. It's the advisors decision whether to allow them back on.

In terms of "it's a message board, go elsewhere", I've never worded it that way because that's not the message I'm sending. The message I'm sending is that there are always people who will be unhappy with what CF does, no matter what. It's not directed at one person or another in this thread. It's a general observation that those who won't be happy no matter what should go start their own site so that they CAN be happy.

You're reading wayyy too much into what I wrote. I never said staff was perfect. And I've noticed that when a mistake was made, the current team of advisors is VERY quick to fix it. Of course everyone makes mistakes. The true measure of a person's integrity is how they fix that mistake.

That being said, just because YOU (or someone else) believe the advisors made mistake doesn't make it a fact.

What a defense, you aught to be an attorney watch out Ca'Dan

 

[BelindaP]

Actually, when you're banned, you don't have access to the Advisors. I found that out during my week off. You can't do anything but post in the Complaint Box. And, if they delete your thread, you are hosed. There is no PM.