Change to the Appeals process, changes to Staff and a few other things

[PreachersWife2004]

That's the whole point, trimmjoy. She's here giving only one side of the story. It's an unbalanced way of trying to prove something is wrong with the system. There can be no defense against her claims here without breaking some sort of confidentiality.

I was on Member Services, although it was called Reconciliation Team. I know how the threads are handled there, and unless a member is getting unruly or continuously breaking the rules, we didn't delete threads. We didn't even delete them when they were done - they were moved to an archive section. Hence my asking what might've been done to provoke the thread being deleted. I have nothing personal against BelindaP - I've stood up for her many many times and will continue to do so.

As someone has offered to help her figure out what is going on, someone who DOES have access to those areas and DOES know what was going on, I think it's fair to drop the matter now, don't you?

 

[Tishri1]

I work there and we are helping her with her complaint, without going into detail it was nothing that you have speculated and thats part of the problem with folks complaining in public threads and not coming to us the MST(formerly the RT).... It causes confusion and produces the same results many times just like gossip does...Its alot harder to undo false accusations than if the person came to talk to the source in private that is why we have that teaching in the Bible about taking your offence straight to the person...The MST is taking care of Belinda and for her privacy and staff confidentiality I cannot tell you what happened only that your speculations are not correct.

I see alot of personal complaints in this thread and I sooooo wish you all would remember us as we cannot help you if you post personal complaints here .

Been lurking and reading and am behind in this thread.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7381483-18/#post52293650


http://www.christianforums.com/t7381483-19/#post52293703

I think you misread or maybe...(twisted her words. jk )

She only pointed out that there was nothing she knew to do once the thread was deleted. And why would someone ask that in a public thread anyway? Was she expected to talk about something forbidden to talk about?


http://www.christianforums.com/t7381483-19/#post52293883
We, as in supervisors? I wondered...How could supervisors know any part of "the story" surrounding her concern or consider commenting? Only Member Services (former RT) and certain non-moderator-types are privy to and can read or reply in the Suggestions-Complaint box according to rules and what I've read. Sounds like it's kept private for a good reason.

Also sounds like those who do know what's what wouldn't break the confidence of members nor the confidence placed in them by the advisors discussing reasons with a moderator-staff. It makes no sense. My guess is that a supervisor can't really be a spokesperson for what goes on in that private area. I could be wrong.

My read (and nothing more than opinion) is that shame, guilt or blame was implied towards her, yet she didn't even bring that up. But since it was brought up, maybe the thread was closed because someone had an emotional reaction to a post. Maybe one reaction provoked another reaction. We're all prone to emotionally reacting at times. Maybe, just maybe, it was removed by honest mistake. We're all prone to making mistakes. Or maybe it was wrong to close it. Or maybe it was right to close it. Is the reason something she should talk about in a public thread?

To her credit she didn't even attempt to blame anyone but only pointed out that there was nothing she knew to do once the thread was deleted. Her difficulty was with the system.


Even those who know the rules the best and whose desire it is to show Christian charity towards others make errors in reading, and fall short of that mark at times.


A couple pages later someone did offer her help.

 

[trimmjoy]

There can be no defense against her claims here without breaking some sort of confidentiality.

I read her post as though she was saying that if someone's thread was deleted in that forum they had no recourse, that's all. You read something else.

I think it's fair to drop the matter now, don't you?

Okie dokie. Fine by me. I'll not post to you again.

...nothing that you have speculated and thats part of the problem with folks complaining in public threads and not coming to us the MST(formerly the RT)

Its alot harder to undo false accusations than if the person came to talk to the source in private that is why we have that teaching in the Bible about taking your offence straight to the person...

You can't be talking to me. I accused no one. I questioned why a moderator would jump into an issue that she (according to what I read in the FAQ, has nothing to do with and can't know the details).

Yes, I did question why a moderator on CF would ask a member about a confidential matter in a public thread in a manner that was perceived (by me at least) not only to be putting the member on the spot but it sounded like she, as a mod, had certain insight into that particular issue - instead of simply ignoring the post (since she has nothing to do with the MST) or pointing out how the member could resolve the issue she had. Seems it would have been a more charitable way to go. But what do I know.

I see alot of personal complaints in this thread and I sooooo wish you all would remember us as we cannot help you if you post personal complaints here .

Well, if moderators have the blessing of their authorities to make those kinds of posts, there's not much complaining to be done on my end.

But thank you. I will go there in the future with any complaints I have. I apolgize to you, Tishri1.

I will go now. Thank you.

 

[BelindaP]

Well, I have been contacted and helped, I suppose. For the trekkies out there, I would say the help was on the order of what a Cardassian lawyer does for their client in the Cardassian legal system. A note to the Advisors--please change their name to something other than Member Services. I've done customer service before, and I don't think you should give people of false impression of how much patience/service they will actually get.
Permaban me for this. I don't care anymore.

 

[CaDan]

Well, I have been contacted and helped, I suppose. For the trekkies out there, I would say the help was on the order of what a Cardassian lawyer does for their client in the Cardassian legal system. A note to the Advisors--please change their name to something other than Member Services. I've done customer service before, and I don't think you should give people of false impression of how much patience/service they will actually get.
Permaban me for this. I don't care anymore.

I like the term MST. I like the image of Crow, Servo, and Joel trying to run things.

"Hey Crow! What do you want for Christmas?"
"I want to get to decide who lives and who dies!"

 

[CaDan]

That's the whole point, trimmjoy. She's here giving only one side of the story. It's an unbalanced way of trying to prove something is wrong with the system. There can be no defense against her claims here without breaking some sort of confidentiality.

I was on Member Services, although it was called Reconciliation Team. I know how the threads are handled there, and unless a member is getting unruly or continuously breaking the rules, we didn't delete threads. We didn't even delete them when they were done - they were moved to an archive section. Hence my asking what might've been done to provoke the thread being deleted. I have nothing personal against BelindaP - I've stood up for her many many times and will continue to do so.

As someone has offered to help her figure out what is going on, someone who DOES have access to those areas and DOES know what was going on, I think it's fair to drop the matter now, don't you?

Confidentiality. I find it amusing that Staff (and you in particular) cling to this defense when those you have wronged specifically waive their rights to it.

As for your claim you "defended" Belinda--pull the other one, it has bells on it. You attacked her by implying it was her fault RT closed her appeal/discussion/prevarication thread. A skillful passive-aggressive move. I see you have a future on CF Staff.

 

[CaDan]

I read her post as though she was saying that if someone's thread was deleted in that forum they had no recourse, that's all. You read something else.Okie dokie. Fine by me. I'll not post to you again.




You can't be talking to me. I accused no one. I questioned why a moderator would jump into an issue that she (according to what I read in the FAQ, has nothing to do with and can't know the details).

Yes, I did question why a moderator on CF would ask a member about a confidential matter in a public thread in a manner that was perceived (by me at least) not only to be putting the member on the spot but it sounded like she, as a mod, had certain insight into that particular issue - instead of simply ignoring the post (since she has nothing to do with the MST) or pointing out how the member could resolve the issue she had. Seems it would have been a more charitable way to go. But what do I know.

Well, if moderators have the blessing of their authorities to make those kinds of posts, there's not much complaining to be done on my end.

But thank you. I will go there in the future with any complaints I have. I apolgize to you, Tishri1.

I will go now. Thank you.

Yeah, it's so much more helpful to have secret interviews where one can get flamed by the Advisors where only the MiSTies can see. Really enjoyable.

 

[CaDan]

Anyway, before you pull the trigger on me, I will as one more time:

[size=+5]

WILL THOSE PERSONS WHO HAVE BEEN BANNED BY THE ADVISORS HAVE ACCESS TO THE NEW AND IMPROVED APPEAL SYSTEM?​

___ YES

___ NO

[/SIZE]

 

[Davidnic]

Anyway, before you pull the trigger on me, I will as one more time:

WILL THOSE PERSONS WHO HAVE BEEN BANNED BY THE ADVISORS HAVE ACCESS TO THE NEW AND IMPROVED APPEAL SYSTEM?​

___ YES

___ NO

On record, for what it is worth...I think they should. If a new system is being put in place because there was something to be improved upon then those who were members of the community who were banned after that process should have some mechanism for appealing under the new system.

I don't get a say in that but I wanted to publicly say I think that would be fair. If someone got to the point where the advisers banned them a lot would have gone down to get to that point. And part of it could have been exacerbated by things that are getting fixed in the new system. Sometimes a snowball started rolling down the mountain and it had it's own inertia that was difficult to overcome.

So in fairness some mechanism should exist for a review under the new system, if by making a new one we are honestly acknowledging unintentional flaws in the old one and that this is an attempt to improve.

This is not a knock at the old RT team, advisers or any banned members. But we do our best in the systems we have. If the systems need improving then everyone should get the benefit of the improvement.

 

[Hentenza]

You know, this website offers an abundance of forums to post in to satisfy pretty much any topic or activity, however, some here have found their favorite activity to just criticize, belittle, and put down just about everything about this site. Guys, go have fun in it. Enjoy the site. Go fellowship with your fellow Christians, or debate your favorite topic, or go have fun with the atheists. All of this bickering and accusations are just counter productive.

If any of you have a suggestion or question based on the Op then please state it but please lay off the negativity.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Like I said, I'm dropping the issue. I have no investment in what goes on between BelindaP and the RT. I was merely trying to make a point that while someone can come into a very public thread and make very public accusations, those who the accusations are being leveled against cannot in good conscience defend themselves without breaking confidence, whether between them and the member, or just the confidentiality agreement that comes with being on staff.

Personally, I believe that if a member chooses to accuse someone publically, then the staff should have the right to air what caused the grievance in the first place. So I don't hide behind any "confidence" rule - it's actually in place for the member's protection, not mine. You can look at what I've done here with a magnifying glass and you wouldn't find anything circumspect.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Good idea, Hentenza. I think I'll unsubscribe now.

You know, this website offers an abundance of forums to post in to satisfy pretty much any topic or activity, however, some here have found their favorite activity to just criticize, belittle, and put down just about everything about this site. Guys, go have fun in it. Enjoy the site. Go fellowship with your fellow Christians, or debate your favorite topic, or go have fun with the atheists. All of this bickering and accusations are just counter productive.

If any of you have a suggestion or question based on the Op then please state it but please lay off the negativity.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

How much time will a member have from the time they get the Staff notice to the time they are banned?
I would tell members to have this "dancing ban can" ready to put in their Avatars as soon as they are notified, so that at least others will know what happened to them when they suddenly get "raptured" from CF......Just a thought

 

[Hentenza]

Anyway, before you pull the trigger on me, I will as one more time:

[SIZE=+5]

WILL THOSE PERSONS WHO HAVE BEEN BANNED BY THE ADVISORS HAVE ACCESS TO THE NEW AND IMPROVED APPEAL SYSTEM?​

___ YES

___ NO

[/SIZE]

I shrank your post to a more manageable type size.

Steve, everyone that has ever been banned has been given the opportunity to discuss the ban in the s/c box (at least since I became theo admin and had visibility of the forum). Many go there to accuse, fight, belittle, and generally not take responsibility for anything that they have done. Others go there and discuss the issue civily and respectfully. Many of those have been successful in their appeals. There is always two sides to an issue.

Disclaimer: This is not a premise nor am I presenting an argument.

 

[drstevej]

Steve, everyone that has ever been banned has been given the opportunity to discuss the ban in the s/c box (at least since I became theo admin and had visibility of the forum).

That was true in my case.

 

[Hentenza]

How much time will a member have from the time they get the Staff notice to the time they are banned?
I would tell members to have this "dancing ban can" ready to put in their Avatars as soon as they are notified, so that at least others will know what happened to them when they suddenly get "raptured" from CF......Just a thought

Steve,

Go read the FAQ. Sheesh!!!

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Steve,

Go read the FAQ. Sheesh!!!

Ah shuckz....it just sounds so much better when you explain it

 

[drstevej]

Too many Steve's... it is confusing.

 

[Davidnic]

Too many Steve's... it is confusing.

I was just thinking that myself.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Steve,

Go read the FAQ. Sheesh!!!

From what I read here, a 1 week or less ban cannot be appealed.
The first ban I got was for 1 month and I appealed it for quite awhile [with no success].

The 2nd one was just for a Week......something is out of whack here......Perhaps I was given a 1 week ban by the Mod so I COULDN'T appeal it?

Members may appeal Forum-specific Bans (FSBs), infractions, and bans resulting from infractions.

Members may not appeal bans of a week or less, which include cool-down bans and bans resulting from warnings. Members may not appeal to the RT regarding Executive bans issued from the Advisors. Only the Advisors may repeal Executive bans.