Change to the Appeals process, changes to Staff and a few other things

[CaliforniaJosiah]

side note (sorry)....

I think ONE of the "problems" whenever discussing CF and how it functions (official protocols or de facto) is that, for the past 4 years anyway, CF has been in CONSTANT flux and change. Some ask about things YESTERDAY, but it's different today - and will be different tomorrow. I'm NOT saying ANYTHING about the value of such changes, only that such seems constant and almost dizzying....

When I was on staff, I spend an ABSURD amount of time doing nothing but trying to be up-to-speed on the policy discussions and changes. We couldn't even seem to keep the names of things the same! Staff (especially upper staff) moved around so fast that the poor gal in charge of listing and posting Staff was weeks behand (we all pitied her). We lowly posters are mostly out-of-the-loop on all this (CF is MUCH better about this than it use to be, my thanks to Tonks and others for the increased openness), but we're still days behind the current (meaning TODAY) status of things. Understand my point, Henry? You do a fine job of trying to convey where things are "at" at this moment, but most of US are working from what we experienced - perhaps a few days or weeks or even months ago. Keeping current with CF is VERY difficult for us posters - I'm not even sure it's possible, even for the FEW of us that actually read these annoucements. I hope Staff can appreciate that (I suspect they do).

Sorry...

Back to the current discussion...



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[CaDan]

Not in the same sense that a regular ban would be. They can start a thread in the s/c box and the MST will let the advisors know. The advisors will then discuss the ban with the member but the decision is ultimately the advisors to make.

Is that "can" a present tense statement or a future tense statement?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

What are the pros and cons of making the reports thread public again? I still have copy of PM's and the posts I made the first time I got a 30 day ban which I feel was more because of "spite" reporting in some cases.

The Report Thread in the Staff Forum is located here:
http://christianforums.com/t7208530

I would think if other members could view the exchanges between Staff and the reported member, it would actually be more benficial, as they would be able to, not only determine if another member did indeed get a "spite" report, or if it was truly a legit "flame" report.

I have now learned not to engage in a person that has flamed or falsely accused me in a post, but rather I will report the post if I find it accusatory or baiting.
Just a rant from me

 

[Hentenza]

Review Toulmin's The Uses of Argument.

Steve, I am not here to argue with you. You asked a question and I answered it.

 

[Hentenza]

What are the pros and cons of making the reports thread public again? I still have copy of PM's and the posts I made the first time I got a 30 day ban which I feel was more because of "spite" reporting in some cases.

The Report Thread in the Staff Forum is located here:
http://christianforums.com/t7208530

I would think if other members could view the exchanges between Staff and the reported member, it would actually be more benficial, as they would be able to, not only determine if another member did indeed get a "spite" report, or if it was truly a legit "flame" report.

I have now learned not to engage in a person that has flamed or falsely accused me in a post, but rather I will report the post if I find it accusatory or baiting.
Just a rant from me

The reports will not be open again.

 

[CaDan]

Steve, I am not here to argue with you. You asked a question and I answered it.

Grounds: I answered a question you asked.

Conclusion: I am not arguing.

Warrant (implicit): Answering a question is not argument.

 

[drstevej]

The report will not be open again.

Good call.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The report will not be open again.

Ok, thank you Hentenza.....I hope by posting what I did, my previous Staff contacts will not be scutinized too much in the future.......Sometimes I had felt like I was on some kind of "hit" list for some reason... God bless

 

[Hentenza]

Ok, thank you Hentenza.....I hope by posting what I did, my previous Staff contacts will not be scutinized too much in the future.......Sometimes I had felt like I was on some kind of "hit" list for some reason... God bless

No hit list, Steve.

 

[Hentenza]

Grounds: I answered a question you asked.

Conclusion: I am not arguing.

Warrant (implicit): Answering a question is not argument.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

No hit list, Steve.

WHEW!
Btw, I suggest when someone is quoting a post from a poster that has said something derogatory, that you quote the WHOLE post.
I quoted a part of a post of someone who had falsely accused me of something and the next thing I knew, they had edited it out and said they never said it!! I was then reported by that poster and banned........

 

[Hentenza]

WHEW!
Btw, I suggest when someone is quoting a post from a poster that has said something derogatory, that you quote the WHOLE post.
I quoted a part of a post of someone who had falsely accused me of something and the next thing I knew, they had edited it out and said they never said it!! I was then reported by that poster and banned........

PM me the particulars and I'll be happy to look at it.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

PM me the particulars and I'll be happy to look at it.

I will look back at it, but I believe some of it was deleted from that thread. I was banned so quick after the report, I didn't have to time make a copy of the posts or the thread....
Tis water under the bridge though.....

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Tis water under the bridge though.....

Friend,

There are a LOT of scars and wounds. Some of them the result of being victims (wholly or partly). Many have put it behind them (or are trying to do so). Some of those are posting in this thread. Putting things behind is easy to advise, not always so easy to do.

There's an old adage: "Hurt me once - shame on you! Hurt me twice - shame on ME!" I think the timidity of many, even the notes of pessimism - are understandable.

BUT, I think what some Staff are asking is to help each other put all that past and try to embrace a new day. I don't think any are suggesting it is easy to do. I CERTAINLY would not suggest so. And, friend, I KNOW - some here have done this several times before and found the "change" well.... wasn't. Sometimes, there's a long past to put behind us?????

I'm not "preaching." I'm struggling. Two things help me: I'm pretty convinced we have good people on staff. And I love this site - I WANT things to work. I'm currently more optimistic than I've been in a very long time.


PEACE, my brother. And may it begin with me...



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[[serious]]

No Other Gospel

6I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned! 10Am I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ.


Galations 1:6-10

As much as I don't want to drag this back up, I think it's theoloically questionable to apply a verse to a collection of writings that was neither complete nor collected at the time of the verse's writing. IOW, if that verse were to apply as you seem to be suggesting, the same verse would require removing several NT books.

 

[Chaplain David]

The reports will not be open again.

And what were the reasons for that again?

 

[Hentenza]

And what were the reasons for that again?

Strife, verbal abuse, harassment, etc., etc., etc.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Friend,

There are a LOT of scars and wounds. Some of them the result of being victims (wholly or partly). Many have put it behind them (or are trying to do so). Some of those are posting in this thread. Putting things behind is easy to advise, not always so easy to do.

There's an old adage: "Hurt me once - shame on you! Hurt me twice - shame on ME!" I think the timidity of many, even the notes of pessimism - are understandable.

BUT, I think what some Staff are asking is to help each other put all that past and try to embrace a new day. I don't think any are suggesting it is easy to do. I CERTAINLY would not suggest so. And, friend, I KNOW - some here have done this several times before and found the "change" well.... wasn't. Sometimes, there's a long past to put behind us?????

I'm not "preaching." I'm struggling. Two things help me: I'm pretty convinced we have good people on staff. And I love this site - I WANT things to work. I'm currently more optimistic than I've been in a very long time.


PEACE, my brother. And may it begin with me...



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Excellent post bro!

 

[DeanM]

I wish the best of luck to CF's staff as they try to sort out the best possible path to bettering the site.

I pray that they will have wisdom in their minds and love in their hearts.

I also pray for CF's members; that they find fellowship and support.

On a different note, I'm currently reading Romans 14. Good reading.

Romans 14

The Weak and the Strong

1Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

 

[trimmjoy]

Been lurking and reading and am behind in this thread.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7381483-18/#post52293650

Actually, when you're banned, you don't have access to the Advisors. I found that out during my week off. You can't do anything but post in the Complaint Box. And, if they delete your thread, you are hosed. There is no PM.

[/quote]http://www.christianforums.com/t7381483-19/#post52293703

Then I would have to ask what you did in the thread to provoke it being deleted.

I think you misread or maybe...(twisted her words. jk )

She only pointed out that there was nothing she knew to do once the thread was deleted. And why would someone ask that in a public thread anyway? Was she expected to talk about something forbidden to talk about?


http://www.christianforums.com/t7381483-19/#post52293883

I'm not sure that this is entirely helpful, PW.

No, it's just showing that we're getting half the story.

We, as in supervisors? I wondered...How could supervisors know any part of "the story" surrounding her concern or consider commenting? Only Member Services (former RT) and certain non-moderator-types are privy to and can read or reply in the Suggestions-Complaint box according to rules and what I've read. Sounds like it's kept private for a good reason.

Also sounds like those who do know what's what wouldn't break the confidence of members nor the confidence placed in them by the advisors discussing reasons with a moderator-staff. It makes no sense. My guess is that a supervisor can't really be a spokesperson for what goes on in that private area. I could be wrong.

My read (and nothing more than opinion) is that shame, guilt or blame was implied towards her, yet she didn't even bring that up. But since it was brought up, maybe the thread was closed because someone had an emotional reaction to a post. Maybe one reaction provoked another reaction. We're all prone to emotionally reacting at times. Maybe, just maybe, it was removed by honest mistake. We're all prone to making mistakes. Or maybe it was wrong to close it. Or maybe it was right to close it. Is the reason something she should talk about in a public thread?

To her credit she didn't even attempt to blame anyone but only pointed out that there was nothing she knew to do once the thread was deleted. Her difficulty was with the system.


Even those who know the rules the best and whose desire it is to show Christian charity towards others make errors in reading, and fall short of that mark at times.


A couple pages later someone did offer her help.