Change is Coming

[Douggg]

The fig tree is a metaphor for the Jewish people, Jeremiah 24:4-7 and the only possible fulfilment of that prophecy is the establishment of the Jewish State of Israel, in a small part of the holy Land.

That's part of it. But the fig tree is Jerusalem. Specifically Jerusalem back in the hands of the Jews in 1967.

If you use 1948 as the base year, and 80 years (if by strength in Psalms 90) for a generation, then by the end of 2021 is when the 7 years have to begin.

If you use 1967 as the base years, and 70 years for a generation, then by the end of 2030 is when the 7 years have to begin.

 

[Douggg]

Anyway, even in our experience, myself as a 78 year old man, seven years isn't such a long time, it all just seems to go by so quickly!

This is one thing I can agree with you on.

 

[keras]

If you use 1948 as the base year, and 80 years (if by strength in Psalms 90) for a generation, then by the end of 2018 is when the 7 years have to begin. Didn't happen.

From 1948 to 2018 is 70 years. So using 80; by reason of strength, brings it to 2028, as the last possible year before the commencement of the final 7 years before Jesus Returns.
Actually, as Jesus will Return exactly 2000 years after His first Advent, Luke 13:32, then about 2023 is a likely date.

Also you don't seem to realize that quite a lot must happen before the leader of the OWG comes to new Israel and makes a 7 year peace treaty with them.

 

[parousia70]

He can make this last another 30 years or one more second and still be in line with the word.

How can God make that day a "moving target", based on His whims, and be in line with His word here:

Acts 17:31
31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”

The day of Judgement was fixed in time before the foundation of the world.
It is not a moving target that comes or not based on the whim of God or the actions of Men.

 

[parousia70]

That's part of it. But the fig tree is Jerusalem. Specifically Jerusalem back in the hands of the Jews in 1967.

If you use 1948 as the base year, and 80 years (if by strength in Psalms 90) for a generation, then by the end of 2018 is when the 7 years have to begin. Didn't happen.

If you use 1967 as the base years, and 70 years for a generation, then by the end of 2030 is when the 7 years have to begin. Still possible, and likely.

Well, Biblically, I tend to use passages that actually speak of a generation to determine the length of a Biblical generation. Psalm 90:10 not being one of them.

Here's one that gives an excellent formula by which we should be able to test your "80 year generation" theory:

So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations, from David until the captivity in Babylon are fourteen generations, and from the captivity in Babylon until the Christ are fourteen generations.

Show us how 80 years = one generation in this passage please.
Should be simple math.

 

[keras]

Well, Biblically, I tend to use passages that actually speak of a generation to determine the length of a Biblical generation. Psalm 90:10 not being one of them.

Here's one that gives an excellent formula by which we should be able to test your "80 year generation" theory:

So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations, from David until the captivity in Babylon are fourteen generations, and from the captivity in Babylon until the Christ are fourteen generations.

Show us how 80 years = one generation in this passage please.
Should be simple math.

The 'generation' referred to in Matthew 24:34 is not about a succession of offspring, that happens to all families at different times according to many factors.
It plainly refers to the people who are alive when the 'fig tree'; that is, Judah, comes to life; that is, they re-establish their nation in the holy Land.

WE are those people; WE will be the ones to 'see it all'! And because people like you don't like that idea, you do everything -anything you can to make out that the prophesies are history, or spiritualize them, or just ignore totally them. Not a good idea and it just leaves you 'in the dark'.

 

[Douggg]

From 1948 to 2018 is 70 years. So using 80; by reason of strength, brings it to 2028, as the last possible year before the commencement of the final 7 years before Jesus Returns.
Actually, as Jesus will Return exactly 2000 years after His first Advent, Luke 13:32, then about 2023 is a likely date.

Also you don't seem to realize that quite a lot must happen before the leader of the OWG comes to new Israel and makes a 7 year peace treaty with them.

Okay, I see where I made a math mistake. It should be

1948 + 80 years = 2028. minus the 7 years, = 2021 that the 7 years must begin before the end of 2021 So still possible.

Using 70 years for a generation that combination has passed, if using the 1948 base year.
_______________________________________________
I went back and edited my post.

 

[Douggg]

So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations, from David until the captivity in Babylon are fourteen generations, and from the captivity in Babylon until the Christ are fourteen generations.

Show us how 80 years = one generation in this passage please.
Should be simple math.

Some people use that methodology to come up with a number (I don't recall what it is). But it seems overly complex to me, when compared to Psalms 90, which has numbers for a generation directly in the text.

 

[Douggg]

1948 + 80 years = 2028. minus the 7 years, = 2021 that the 7 years must begin before the end of 2021 So still possible.

What would have to happen between now and the end of 2021 in that combination of 1948+80-7, in my view is...

1. EU restructures to ten leaders and the little horn.
2. then Gog/Magog.

...then the confirming of the covenant for 7 years.

 

[BABerean2]

then the confirming of the covenant for 7 years.

Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: "Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans.
Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat 10:7 And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'


Mat 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.


Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.


Gal 1:14 And I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers.
Gal 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb and called me through His grace,
Gal 1:16 to reveal His Son in me, that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately confer with flesh and blood,
Gal 1:17 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me; but I went to Arabia, and returned again to Damascus.
Gal 1:18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and remained with him fifteen days.

Based on the scripture found above, the New Covenant was taken "first" to the Israelites for about 7 years before Paul took the Gospel to the Gentiles.


Daniel Chapter 9: Dr. Kelly Varner

.

 

[Lost4words]

The 'generation' referred to in Matthew 24:34 is not about a succession of offspring, that happens to all families at different times according to many factors.
It plainly refers to the people who are alive when the 'fig tree'; that is, Judah, comes to life; that is, they re-establish their nation in the holy Land.

WE are those people; WE will be the ones to 'see it all'! And because people like you don't like that idea, you do everything -anything you can to make out that the prophesies are history, or spiritualize them, or just ignore totally them. Not a good idea and it just leaves you 'in the dark'.

I personally think you are in the wrong 100%. You assemble scripture to suit your individual beliefs. Misinterpreting scripture greatly.

 

[parousia70]

The 'generation' referred to in Matthew 24:34 is not about a succession of offspring, that happens to all families at different times according to many factors.
It plainly refers to the people who are alive when the 'fig tree'; that is, Judah, comes to life; that is, they re-establish their nation in the holy Land.

Nope. Wrong again.
The fig tree and ALL TREES budding, symbolize how the disciples could ascertain when those things were NEAR in human terms. This is explicitly explained to them by Jesus... just as when they saw trees budding (any type of budding tree) they knew summer was near... similarly, when the disciples saw all the event come to pass that Jesus mentioned, (and not before) they would know the end of the Mosaic age, marked by the temples desolation & stone by stone dismantling, was near for them. This is plain to any honest bible expositor who is not seeking to force fit scripture to fit their view.

To inject an extra "fig tree" meaning that Jesus did not teach in this parable about ALL TREES, is purely the later invention of men to suit a previously held bias.

WE are those people; WE will be the ones to 'see it all'! And because people like you don't like that idea, you do everything -anything you can to make out that the prophesies are history, or spiritualize them, or just ignore totally them. Not a good idea and it just leaves you 'in the dark'.

Rather, We are not these people. as any plain, unbiased reading of the text indicates.
You and I will both die off without these things happening in our day, and we will meet our maker, and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

I expect at 78 you'll get there before me, but even with that reasonable expectation, I'm prepared to meet him now, as I am not guaranteed my next breath, and you may indeed outlive me.

 

[Lost4words]

How many years you been preaching doom and gloom Keras?

 

[Done222]

Forget about prophecy, there is no question the world is headed for some catastrophic times. Maybe it will lead to the return of Christ, and maybe not; but Armageddon is coming.

Nations are positioning their forces to attack Israel; India and Pakistan are on the verge of a nuclear war, and while leaders may pull back and these conflicts may not occur, there is no doubt we are moving towards an economic collapse.

The US is printing a trillion dollar a year deficit just to maintain an economy where most people live from one paycheck to the next. We have never fixed the fundamental problems with the economy, all we do is print money and bailout bankrupt institutions. We just blow these debt fueled bubbles larger and larger. It hasn't fixed anything, it has made things worse.

The Fed may get QE going again and use negative rates to kick the can down the road for a few more years, but even if they try to kick the can down the road a little while longer, it may not work.

On the other hand, it seems as though the powers that be will let the economy fall just to take down Trump. And Trump who has all these elites in his administration keeps taking their advice to escalate things with China so that he will be blamed for what coming.

The Democrats booed God at their 2016 convention, and shortly after that they began to go insane. Now the elites are going to bring down Trump by bringing down the economy and the crazy Democrats are going to be in charge.

 

[mkgal1]

The 'generation' referred to in Matthew 24:34 is not about a succession of offspring, that happens to all families at different times according to many factors.
It plainly refers to the people who are alive when the 'fig tree'; that is, Judah, comes to life; that is, they re-establish their nation in the holy Land.

WE are those people; WE will be the ones to 'see it all'! And because people like you don't like that idea, you do everything -anything you can to make out that the prophesies are history, or spiritualize them, or just ignore totally them. Not a good idea and it just leaves you 'in the dark'.

And "this generation" mentioned in Mark - do you also read these to mean a different era (thousands of years later) than the contemporaries of the Pharisees speaking directly to Jesus at that time?

Mark 8:11-13 ~ The Pharisees came and began to argue with [Jesus], seeking from him a sign from heaven to test him. And he sighed deeply in his spirit and said, ‘Why does this generation seek a sign? Truly, I say to you, no sign will be given to this generation.’ And he left them, got into the boat again, and went to the other side.”​

....and what about what Acts 2:40? Is Peter suggesting that his audience is excluded - and instead - he means a far off group of people should save themselves from a whole other group in the future that's corrupt - or what (it doesn't even make sense to consider these words are directed to anyone other than their contemporaries that were living at the time):

Acts 2:40 ~ With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.”​

And - when Paul wrote this to the Philippians, were they to just ignore his words and expect that he was writing to a group off in their future?

Philippians 2:12-15 ~ Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling,
13 for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.
14 Do everything without grumbling or arguing,
15 so that you may become blameless and pure, “children of God without fault in a warped and crooked generation.”

ETA: Matthew 17 ~
Jesus Heals a Demon-Possessed Boy
14 When they came to the crowd, a man approached Jesus and knelt before him.
15 “Lord, have mercy on my son,” he said. “He has seizures and is suffering greatly. He often falls into the fire or into the water.
16 I brought him to your disciples, but they could not heal him.”
17 “You unbelieving and perverse generation,” Jesus replied, “how long shall I stay with you? How long shall I put up with you?
​

"This generation" = the persons then living contemporary with Christ. - Generation Definition and Meaning - Bible Dictionary​

 

[High Fidelity]

They've 'been coming' for as long as Christianity itself.

The only thing that hasn't changed is that there's nothing new added to the conversation, there are no dates because that's not possible, as Scripture very clearly states.

It will happen when it happens. Could be tomorrow, could be a billion years from now.

We won't know until it happens.

 

[mkgal1]

The Democrats booed God at their 2016 convention, and shortly after that they began to go insane.

What are you even referring to?

 

[Douggg]

How many years you been preaching doom and gloom Keras?

Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Yet, in Noah's day they had the visible sign of Noah building the ark. We have signs of the times in our days as well.

 

[parousia70]

Forget about prophecy, there is no question the world is headed for some catastrophic times. Maybe it will lead to the return of Christ, and maybe not; but Armageddon is coming.

Nations are positioning their forces to attack Israel; India and Pakistan are on the verge of a nuclear war, and while leaders may pull back and these conflicts may not occur, there is no doubt we are moving towards an economic collapse.

The US is printing a trillion dollar a year deficit just to maintain an economy where most people live from one paycheck to the next. We have never fixed the fundamental problems with the economy, all we do is print money and bailout bankrupt institutions. We just blow these debt fueled bubbles larger and larger. It hasn't fixed anything, it has made things worse.

The Fed may get QE going again and use negative rates to kick the can down the road for a few more years, but even if they try to kick the can down the road a little while longer, it may not work.

On the other hand, it seems as though the powers that be will let the economy fall just to take down Trump. And Trump who has all these elites in his administration keeps taking their advice to escalate things with China so that he will be blamed for what coming.

The Democrats booed God at their 2016 convention, and shortly after that they began to go insane. Now the elites are going to bring down Trump by bringing down the economy and the crazy Democrats are going to be in charge.

World empires rise and fall... its the natural ebb and flow of Human Society.

This much is certain, ours is a World without end, Amen. Ephesians 3:21

 

[Lost4words]

Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Yet, in Noah's day they had the visible sign of Noah building the ark. We have signs of the times in our days as well.

What signs of the times exactly?