Challenge: Is Evolution REALLY a theory in crisis?

[dlamberth]

Evolution without intelligent design is becoming a crisis.

Is my understanding correct that your agreeing that evolution is not in crisis? And that for you evolution is not in crisis because evolution is being guided by design?

 

[NxNW]

Evolution without intelligent design is becoming a crisis. The more it's studied the more chance or blind interaction isn't cutting the mustard.

Nobody is claiming that it's driven by chance or blind interaction. It's driven by natural selection, which is much more powerful.

 

[Gene2memE]

Evolution deals with the natural world...

Can you just stop with the non-sequiturs? There's actually scope here for an interesting discussion

 

[Pommer]

How does life “work” on the Earth?
The answer needn’t be sought in the Holy Books in the world, since life would have existed for far longer than there has been a creature that seems to need to “understand” it all.
The only reason that evolution is rejected by some Christians, is that it seemingly eliminates the “need” for a God to have created the Earth, and we’re all just here by mere “chance”.

That can be a scary proposition for people to take in and believe, and that’s fine, you need a God to have created stuff!?
Great! Enjoy your life.

 

[JohnEmmett]

Evolution deals with the natural world…

limited reality

 

[Hans Blaster]

Evolution deals with the natural world...

Can you just stop with the non-sequiturs? There's actually scope here for an interesting discussion

Some people are in the wrong forum.

I too would like to see some proper responses to the challenge of the OP. Usually the closest we get is some argument from (false) authority expressed by volume.

 

[BeyondET]

That's the start of a claim. Got any thing to back this claim? (Also intelligent design is just crypto-creationism, keep that in mind.)

It is a claim just as its a claim life spontaneously happens as well.

There are alot of elements that need to be in the right place at the right time. Mutations adaption regeneration etc. Is just a smidgen of things needed.

Gold in the human body for brain activity and joints etc. tells alot about intelligence and that is formed from a supernova. A thoughtless rise of life imo isn't plausible considering the shear amount of elements it takes to create it.

A mindless evolve that ends up creating a jellyfish that is physically able to live forever isn't a fluke "one off" or by chance. The immortal jellyfish, yes chances of it living forever is zero yet the design the capability is a fact. If everything in the universe has a limit why such a creature that can defy those laws of lifespan.

Simple things like all mammals on earth have 7 vertebrae except 2. No matter the size, only something that has a blueprint to follow such a long path of existence is designed too.

How can chance or blind interaction explain following such a pattern of seven vertebrae. What law of evolution causes that? Certainly not diversity, it holds to a strict number of seven no matter the mammals but two.

Science didn't invent most things it discovers what has already been created. Using a variety of things to replicate it.

There's a large amount of technology that has been created by studying the properties of its counterpart in nature and re-creating the ability.

 

[BeyondET]

Is my understanding correct that your agreeing that evolution is not in crisis? And that for you evolution is not in crisis because evolution is being guided by design?

How can a design have no designer?

 

[Pommer]

youtu.be/noj4phMT9OE?t=1138

They say that for a standard 52 card deck trillions of poker hands are possible and that they’ve never repeated in all the casinos and penny-ante games played all over the world from time immemorial, but that time you got dealt a straight-flush was when you got dealt a straight-flush.

 

[dlamberth]

How can a design have no designer?

I take that as a yes, evolution is not in crisis.

 

[BeyondET]

Nobody is claiming that it's driven by chance or blind interaction. It's driven by natural selection, which is much more powerful.

Indeed the natural intelligently selects what it was designed to do. Sort of like Monarch butterflies migrating from Canada to Mexico they carry on their memories over multiple generations to get where their going and back. Stem cells are the libraries of species, most are long gone with no trace of their existence.

 

[BeyondET]

I take that as a yes, evolution is not in crisis.

I see you agree as well.

 

[partinobodycular]

How can a design have no designer?

How can a designer have no designer?

 

[ViaCrucis]

This is a claim I've seen bandied around more times than once; that evolution is a 'theory in crisis'.

And yet not one person I've seen make that claim is able to actually say how or why it's in crisis.

So, this is my challenge: show me how and/or why the theory of evolution is a 'theory in crisis'?

If you say it's not, don't comment saying it's not, since that's not need for this thread.

I'm 41 years old.
I've been hearing this for about as long as I first heard the word "evolution" ever uttered by a person.

I've also been told that, any day now, Christians are going to be locked up in prison by a one world government. Been hearing that one for just as long.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[BeyondET]

How can a designer have no designer?

Same reason why the immortal jellyfish was designed to live forever. How many designers does it take to create forever?

 

[partinobodycular]

Same reason why the immortal jellyfish was designed to live forever. How many designers does it take to create forever?

Please answer the question. How can a designer have no designer?

 

[BeyondET]

Please answer the question. How can a designer have no designer?

Because a designer that has always been doesn't need another designer. I've shown you how death can be defeated like the immortal jellyfish yet you don't believe something living forever is possible when nature clearly shows its biologically possible.

It's like trying to kill a flatworm with a knife it's impossible.

 

[partinobodycular]

Because a designer that has always been doesn't need another designer

Which means that a design doesn't by necessity require a designer, hence your previous question is invalid.

 

[Hans Blaster]

This thread is a challenge to demonstrate evolution is a theory in crisis. Let's see if any of your statements do that...

It is a claim just as its a claim life spontaneously happens as well.

Not even sure what this statement is supposed to mean.

There are alot of elements that need to be in the right place at the right time. Mutations adaption regeneration etc. Is just a smidgen of things needed.

Gold in the human body for brain activity and joints etc. tells alot about intelligence and that is formed from a supernova. A thoughtless rise of life imo isn't plausible considering the shear amount of elements it takes to create it.

Trace amounts of gold (or any other element) being part of life is not a claim of evolutionary necessity that any theory of evolution makes. Evolution "optimizes" for the environment a creature lives in using the resources available. If there was no gold it would use some other path to achieve the same task. How does "the use of gold" by biological organisms constitute a crisis for evolution theory? (I don't see it.)

A mindless evolve that ends up creating a jellyfish that is physically able to live forever isn't a fluke "one off" or by chance. The immortal jellyfish, yes chances of it living forever is zero yet the design the capability is a fact. If everything in the universe has a limit why such a creature that can defy those laws of lifespan.

How does this constitute a "crisis in evolution"? Some creature develops the capability to revert to an earlier stage in development. So what. Every cell in your body (and mine and everyone's) comes from a continuous sequence of living cells that have been alive for billions of years without interruption.

Simple things like all mammals on earth have 7 vertebrae except 2. No matter the size, only something that has a blueprint to follow such a long path of existence is designed too.

How can chance or blind interaction explain following such a pattern of seven vertebrae. What law of evolution causes that? Certainly not diversity, it holds to a strict number of seven no matter the mammals but two.

This is a long recognized signal of common decent. It is nowhere near evidence of a crisis in evolution. Quite the opposite. (Nearly all primates also have 5 digits on each hand/foot with nails. Same reason.)

Science didn't invent most things it discovers what has already been created. Using a variety of things to replicate it.

There's a large amount of technology that has been created by studying the properties of its counterpart in nature and re-creating the ability.

Science doesn't invent things. It discovers how things work. If you thought otherwise, you were mistaken.

 

[BeyondET]

Which means that a design doesn't by necessity require a designer, hence your previous question is invalid.

Name something that is designed without a designer?