Challenge: Explain the fossil record without evolution

[Hoghead1]

Well, AV1611, you can pack up your ball and bat and go home. But what does that say about you? Don't you think that is a big cop-out on your part? Probably what would help you and some others here is for you guys to go and take some courses on evolution and also the Bible. That way, you would have a much more solid informational base to work from.

 

[AV1611VET]

Well, AV1611, you can pack up your ball and bat and go home. But what does that say about you? Don't you think that is a big cop-out on your part? Probably what would help you and some others here is for you guys to go and take some courses on evolution and also the Bible. That way, you would have a much more solid informational base to work from.

I beg your pardon?

I was showing how GOD DID IT in regards to meandering streams.

As to how GOD DID IT in regards to evolution, qv please:

Spoiler: How God Did It

He didn't.

 

[Hoghead1]

If you are asking me how I see God and evolutions as interacting, my answer is this: I do not think evolution would be possible without God. Evolution denotes the rise of genuine novelty, the actualization of creative potentials. Hence, there must be some source of transcendental creativity, some source of potentialities outside the box, so to speak. If you are going to have novelty, you need an imagimgantion. We have novelty in the world, so there must be some sort of transcendental imaginagioin,I,e., GOd.

 

[Hoghead1]

Sorry. Computer glitch which published the above before I edited it for typo's. Here is the corrected version.



New
If you are asking me how I see God and evolutions as interacting, my answer is this: I do not think evolution would be possible without God. Evolution denotes the rise of genuine novelty, the actualization of creative potentials. Hence, there must be some source of transcendental creativity, some source of potentialities outside the box, so to speak. If you are going to have novelty, you need an imagination. . We have novelty in the world, so there must be some sort of transcendental imagination, i.e., God

 

[lasthero]

Other parts of the flood model suggest that semi-aquatic animals would drown sooner than the land animals....which would cause them to be buried in lower strata. You call it evolution....semi-aquatic to land animals....I simply call it common sense.

Oddly enough, penguins are semi-aquatic animals, yet they only appear AFTER flying birds in the fossil record, and never before dinosaurs. Never.

Turtles. Also semi-aquatic. Appear after reptiles in general first show up.

Amphibians appear in all strata, top to bottom.

 

[DogmaHunter]

Not necessarily.
Imagine a big mess of mud and animals splashing around and the earth's crust cracking and slabs drifting and what not.

Yes, indeed.... "imagine".

There's many factors we can't be sure about, we only have a flood 'legend' to give some hints perhaps.

Yes, indeed... "legends", "myths" and "stories".
Evidence? Not so much.

Looks like it, and if a huge cataclism is your model it can be accounted for.

You keep claiming this....

 

[Hieronymus]

Yes, indeed.... "imagine".

You mistake imagination with fantasy.

 

[DogmaHunter]

You mistake imagination with fantasy.

How do you tell the difference between imagination and fantasy?

 

[Hieronymus]

How do you tell the difference between imagination and fantasy?

The dictionary?

Imagination is (also) a simulation of concepts you make in your mind.

 

[DogmaHunter]

The dictionary?

Imagination is (also) a simulation of concepts you make in your mind.

Let's try that again...

If you imagine something, how do you tell the difference between the thing you imagined being reflective of reality, or the thing you imagined to be mere fantasy / fiction?

 

[AV1611VET]

If you are asking me how I see God and evolutions as interacting, my answer is this: I do not think evolution would be possible without God. Evolution denotes the rise of genuine novelty, the actualization of creative potentials. Hence, there must be some source of transcendental creativity, some source of potentialities outside the box, so to speak. If you are going to have novelty, you need an imagimgantion. We have novelty in the world, so there must be some sort of transcendental imaginagioin,I,e., GOd.

I'm sure God is pleased to know that He's some kind of "transcendental imagination" --

 

[The Barbarian]

How about I just admit I am going to go with my beliefs, and facts can take a hike?

That would be more honest than trying to reconfigure the facts to fit your beliefs. You ever heard of Kurt Wise?

That's what he does, and he seems a lot happier than the guys at "Answers in Genesis."

And he gets a lot more respect.

 

[The Barbarian]

I'm sure God is pleased to know that He's some kind of "transcendental imagination"

At least it fits his job description. Unlike the "space alien" the IDers think might have made us.

 

[-57]

Oddly enough, penguins are semi-aquatic animals, yet they only appear AFTER flying birds in the fossil record, and never before dinosaurs. Never.

Turtles. Also semi-aquatic. Appear after reptiles in general first show up.

Amphibians appear in all strata, top to bottom.

I don't recall saying that was the only way fossils were deposited.

 

[Hieronymus]

Let's try that again...

If you imagine something, how do you tell the difference between the thing you imagined being reflective of reality, or the thing you imagined to be mere fantasy / fiction?

What kind of stupid question is that?
You can imagine what an interior looks like when you have painted in a different color.
Imagination is simulation, making things visual in your thoughts.
Surely even you can discern between your imagination and actual reality.
Otherwise you have serious mental health issues.

 

[DogmaHunter]

What kind of stupid question is that? You can imagine what an interior looks like when you have painted in a different color. Imagination is simulation, making things visual in your thoughts.
Surely even you can discern between your imagination and actual reality.
Otherwise you have serious mental health issues.

You asked me to imagine a specific thing when talking about how things deposit, how geological strata are formed.

My point is that "imagination" here is not nearly enough. Because we are talking about actual phenomena in actual reality.

If you try to claim that certain sediment layers form in specific ways under specific conditions, then asking me to "imagine" things is not enough.

You would need to demonstrate your claims.

Your "imagination" here is insufficient.

There's a wealth of knowledge out there on how layers form through deposits of materials during floods, on the bottom of oceans etc.
Your claims (and "imagination") do not agree with that body of knowledge.

That is the problem.

This is why I asked how to differentiate between this "imagination" and mere "fantasy".

And the answer to that is: you provide actual evidence to support the things you imagine.

Can you?

 

[AV1611VET]

That would be more honest than trying to reconfigure the facts to fit your beliefs.

If I stopped "reconfiguring the facts to fit my beliefs", I would eventually become an atheist ... wouldn't I?

 

[AV1611VET]

At least it fits his job description.

Your wafers must be green, instead of white ... eh?

Or do you even take the Eucharist?

It's a sacrament, you know.

 

[lasthero]

I don't recall saying that was the only way fossils were deposited.

When you bring some other method up, we'll discuss it.

 

[Doveaman]

So you can't explain the fossil record without using evolution?

It is impossible to explain the fossil record using natural science (which includes evolution) if the animals did not die by natural causes.