Cessationists: How does God guide you?

Isilwen

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Jas 4:
13Come now, you who say, “Today or tomorrow we will go to such and such a city, and spend a year there and engage in business and make a profit.” 14Yet you do not know what your life will be like tomorrow. You are just a vapor that appears for a little while and then vanishes away. 15Instead, you ought to say, “If the Lord wills, we will live and also do this or that.”

Again, I agree to disagree. You go ahead and continue to be micro-managed by God if you so choose. I have a brain that God gave me and am able to read His guide book which guides me in my decisions.
 
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Hazelelponi

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Funny how this thread is attracting posters who aren't members of this denomination specific forum..

To the OP:

I'm a reformed Christian who doesn't believe in cessation of the gifts of the Holy Spirit... but I do believe that the Holy Spirit brings to mind Scriptures which guide us in our lives...

"But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you." John 14:26

And He does this through the words of Scripture along with a proper understanding thereof.

This means, whether you have a Paul Washer understanding and experience of the Holy Spirit or not, Scripture is key to living a Christian life and understanding of God.

As for me, I don't personally know any Christian that doesn't seek God's will in prayer. Also, for me since I've been saved, God had consistently opened the right doors at just the right time when I had a need, I occasionally worried because God seemed late, but in reality He never was ever late at all...
 
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Carl Emerson

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Again, I agree to disagree. You go ahead and continue to be micro-managed by God if you so choose. I have a brain that God gave me and am able to read His guide book which guides me in my decisions.

Seeking God's will does not mean we cease using our brain or our bible.
 
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Isilwen

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Seeking God's will does not mean we cease using our brain or our bible.

All we need is the Bible and our brain. Between the two, we can figure it out. Do we pray for things to go our way, yes. We do. However, we do not need to seek God to find out where to live or what job to take.

With that, I am bowing out as someone else has said, this isn't my section of the board as I am not a member.
 
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All Glory To God

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Again, I agree to disagree. You go ahead and continue to be micro-managed by God if you so choose. I have a brain that God gave me and am able to read His guide book which guides me in my decisions.


Guide book? The Bible?

May I ask how you respond to the scripture you find hard to accept?
 
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Albion

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Does the bible tell you whether to start a business or where to live?
No, but neither is it the case that, for every last thought we think or decision we make, even the most trivial, we are expected by God to find out, from him, what to do.

What flavor of ice cream today? What street to live on? What color of automobile to buy? The suggestion is absurd and not at all Biblical.
 
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Isilwen

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Guide book? The Bible?

May I ask how you respond to the scripture you find hard to accept?

Is not the Bible a guide book to help us live a Christian life? That is how I see the Bible. It guides us in life.
 
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Hazelelponi

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Is not the Bible a guide book to help us live a Christian life? That is how I see the Bible. It guides us in life.

It certainly does that... :)

God gives us gifts and things we are good at. Good with architecture? Then it's a fine career choice. Feel drawn to medicine and the sciences? God will open doors along with your hard work.

I do think we should be praying daily for our wills to be conformed to His perfect will... but we have to follow the path God lays out for us - and that path normally plays with our strengths.
 
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All Glory To God

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Is not the Bible a guide book to help us live a Christian life? That is how I see the Bible. It guides us in life.

You did not actually answer my question. I will answer yours though.

I think the Bible is God revealing himself to his creation. Sin is offensive to the Holy God, so the Bible is not really a guideline, it is absolutely black and white in that respect.

Anyway, we went off topic a bit from spiritual gifts.
 
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Isilwen

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It certainly does that... :)

God gives us gifts and things we are good at. Good with architecture? Then it's a fine career choice. Feel drawn to medicine and the sciences? God will open doors along with your hard work.

I do think we should be praying daily for our wills to be conformed to His perfect will... but we have to follow the path God lays out for us - and that path normally plays with our strengths.

Aye. I am an EMT and have been for 19 years now. It is a strength of mine and I started to see that in middle school science class as I was very good at biology.

I am also good at computers and as I am getting older and I can feel my body take starting to feel it's age from the nineteen years of lifting people in awkward positions and getting up and out the door at a moments notice, so I have started taking an online computer course that will give me an associates degree to start a new career.

I have and continue to play to my strengths!
 
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Isilwen

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You did not actually answer my question. I will answer yours though.

I think the Bible is God revealing himself to his creation. Sin is offensive to the Holy God, so the Bible is not really a guideline, it is absolutely black and white.

I think we are basically saying the same thing. I am just not using as "concrete" terms as you are. I would still call the Bible a guide book with your definition.
 
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Carl Emerson

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No, but neither is it the case that, for every last thought we think or decision we make, even the most trivial, we are expected by God to find out, from him, what to do.

What flavor of ice cream today? What street to live on? What color of automobile to buy? The suggestion is absurd and not at all Biblical.

I agree - but scripture does advise to seek God's will on the important matters of life.

The question is - do we come to an understanding of His will only by reading scripture? Does the Holy Spirit within us have some say in this matter? Did not John teach to trust the anointing within?
 
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Albion

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I agree - but scripture does advise to seek God's will on the important matters of life.
Well, I think almost everyone would agree with that, right?

The question is - do we come to an understanding of His will only by reading scripture?
...as understood through tradition and reason, possibly. Not through some overactive imagination onto which we choose to affix the label "Holy Spirit."

Note that all the other elements have a solid base, that's there's something verifiable about them, something that recommends them as correct.

But hunches, imagination, intuition, "I thought I felt something," and that sort of thing has no boundaries and there's nothing about them that would allow anyone to know if it's the Holy Spirit or not!
 
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Paul4JC

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It doesn't need to. Those are your own decisions to make. God doesn't need to make them for you. He gave us intelligence so we can make our own decisions. The Bible does however guide us and it should be used for that purpose.

Jas 4:
13Come now, you who say, “Today or tomorrow we will go to such and such a city, and spend a year there and engage in business and make a profit.” 14Yet you do not know what your life will be like tomorrow. You are just a vapor that appears for a little while and then vanishes away. 15Instead, you ought to say, “If the Lord wills, we will live and also do this or that.”
Thanks for the verses...

Finding the balance is key. God will be involved in every little (and big) if we let him. He also let's us walk by faith in matters entrusted to us. While it's extreme to ask "what should I wear today" and I don't think people do that, it's okay to ask for his providence in acquiring the clothing.

Today I went to a open market, and prayed for his leading before I entered. I came out with this quilt. Now you can say, "you could have done that without asking for God's help." Maybe, but I think guided and provided for me. No he didn't hold my hand. No he didn't drop it in my lap. He didn't negotiate a price. No he didn't help carry it for me. Still his hand was in it. We miss many a thing in life when we don't put or give him his proper place. God bless.

IMG_4525.JPG


[Mar 4:24 NIV] 24 "Consider carefully what you hear," he continued. "With the measure you use, it will be measured to you--and even more.
 
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Carl Emerson

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Well, I think almost everyone would agree with that, right?


...as understood through tradition and reason, possibly. Not through some overactive imagination onto which we choose to affix the label "Holy Spirit."

Note that all the other elements have a solid base, that's there's something verifiable about them, something that recommends them as correct.

But hunches, imagination, intuition, "I thought I felt something," and that sort of thing has no boundaries and there's nothing about them that would allow anyone to know if it's the Holy Spirit or not!

Yes - without gifts of discernment operating you are right - you are left with no way to judge spiritual efficacy.

But the same problem arises when trying to judge the interpretation of scripture, and the claims of those who believe they are being personally guided by reading it.

It ends up just being a matter of opinion.

But the even more serious issue to face is the silent indwelling of the third person of the trinity. What Scriptural support can one muster to support a silent indwelling of the Holy Spirit?
 
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Albion

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Yes - without gifts of discernment operating you are right - you are left with no way to judge spiritual efficacy.

But the same problem arises when trying to judge the interpretation of scripture, and the claims of those who believe they are being personally guided by reading it.
Yes, but there are standards that are used for that--understanding the original language, the difference between literal and figurative statements, colloquialisms, for example. Or the track record of the belief, whatever it is.

What you are recommending instead is what could be described as a hunch which then is attributed, without any real basis for doing so, to the Holy Spirit.

It's no wonder that many of the most heretical and even ludicrous claims that we read on these forums come from people (not you) who, not surprisingly, insist that since God personally told them last night that it's true...then it is, and everything else that the Christian religion has believed for 2000 years is of no importance.

It ends up just being a matter of opinion.
It is...for the people I've just described. It's not that way for orthodox Christians, either Catholic or Protestant.
 
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Carl Emerson

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Yes, but there are standards that are used for that--understanding the original language, the difference between literal and figurative statements, colloquialisms, for example. Or the track record of the belief, whatever it is.

What you are recommending instead is what could be described as a hunch which then is attributed, without any real basis for doing so, to the Holy Spirit.

It's no wonder that many of the most heretical and even ludicrous claims that we read on these forums come from people (not you) who, not surprisingly, insist that since God personally told them last night that it's true...then it is, and everything else that the Christian religion has believed for 2000 years is of no importance.


It is...for the people I've just described. It's not that way for orthodox Christians, either Catholic or Protestant.

Well I attend an orthodox Church that embraces the Holy Spirit within the believer communicating with individual saints.

When I arrived at the church a few months back I had a vision in which I saw a hole in the church grounds from which something had been removed. As I shared this with the Vicar (not knowing what it meant) he informed me that during recent renovations they had found buried, a large old masonry cross which they restored and reinstated on the church. He appreciated the important significance of this fact both physically and symbolically.

I wouldn't be at that church unless I knew that it was in God's plan for us to be there.
 
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Albion

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Well I attend an orthodox Church that embraces the Holy Spirit within the believer communicating with individual saints.
"communicating with individual saints" sounds pretty open-ended to me.

When I arrived at the church a few months back I had a vision in which I saw a hole in the church grounds from which something had been removed. As I shared this with the Vicar (not knowing what it meant) he informed me that during recent renovations they had found buried, a large old masonry cross which they restored and reinstated on the church. He appreciated the important significance of this fact both physically and symbolically.
So, do you get the same personal treatment when it comes to every other decision you face in life? That's where this dialogue started, not with the idea that the HS might sometimes reveal something or other to men outside of Scripture or the institutional church..
 
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Carl Emerson

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"communicating with individual saints" sounds pretty open-ended to me.


So, do you get the same personal treatment when it comes to every other decision you face in life? That's where this dialogue started, not with the idea that the HS might sometimes reveal something or other to men outside of Scripture or the institutional church..

OK lets anchor this matter in Scripture...

Gal 5:

16But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. 17For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

Paul expects all believers to follow this basic requirement.
 
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Albion

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OK lets anchor this matter in Scripture...

Gal 5:

16But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. 17For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.

Paul expects all believers to follow this basic requirement.

The Holy Spirit was sent to lead the church and keep the gates of hell from prevailing against it. That presumes some ongoing guidance, I agree.

But when the passage you cite is interpreted as meaning that we can all just be churches unto ourselves and do whatever seems right to us--basing it upon nothing other than "The HS inspired me to do or say that"...and moreover, that every last decision or act or thought we have in life is based upon this gut feeling or invisible whispering in our ears, quite independent of what the Bible teaches...

the result is unorthodox to say the least, unScriptural, and and illogical as well.
 
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