Certainty Jesus Returns No Later than 2023

[doright]

That's an interesting notion. Weird and wrong-headed, but interesting.

SHOW ME THE SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS THAT IS WRONG

 

[faithfulforever]

Let's focus on what's actually going to happen...

That will be soooooo cool come Feast of Trumpets Sept. 14, 2015 and a couple million people vanish to 3rd heaven "before the throne" (Rev. 7.9) at the first rapture according to readiness (Luke 21.36, Rev. 3.10) before the 1st trumpet (8.7) of the Trib., after the great earthquake (Haiti 2010/Japan 2011), black sackcloth sun (Nov. 3, 2013 H3) and red blood moon (2014/15 Tetrad) in Rev. 6.12.

What's the probability of these 3 events?

First time ever for the earthquake so approx. 1 in 2010 or infinity.
4th long H3 since Christ so about 1 in 700.
8th Tetrad since Christ so that's about 1 in 100,000 considering two need to fall on exact dates in the 20th century and there was only one century in the past that had two Tetrads (1/19 x 2/100 x 1/99).
To occur in that exact order as required is 1 in 6.

1/2010 x 1/700 x 1/100,000 x 1/6 = 1 in 844 BILLION.

I guess nothing with satisfy your heart to accept God and that makes me sad for you.

When God gives us these blatant signs and you say it something else, it only shows how cold your heart is.

 

[Jipsah]

Let's focus on what's actually going to happen.

If you're talking about your ridiculous predictions then you'd be nearer the truth to say "let's focus on what's not going to happen, at all."

That will be soooooo cool come Feast of Trumpets Sept. 14, 2015

A day that will forever after be known as... Monday.

What's the probability of these 3 events?

Roughly nil.

First time ever for the earthquake so approx. 1 in 2010 or infinity.

"The" earthquake, as opposed to "an" earthquake? "2010 or infinity"? No clue what you're trying to say here.

4th long H3 since Christ so about 1 in 700.

And the Bible speaks at length about long H3s, doesn't it?

8th Tetrad since Christ so that's about 1 in 100,000 considering two need to fall on exact dates in the 20th century and there was only one century in the past that had two Tetrads (1/19 x 2/100 x 1/99).

Eighth tetrad! Well I guess that settles it, seeing as how our Lord told us we wouldn't know when He was returning except that it would be in the 8th tetrad.

I guess nothing with satisfy your heart to accept God

Sorry, but I fail to see how the nonsensical ramblings of yet another internet prophet have any bearing on anyone's "acceptance" of God, or on anything else for that matter.

Quite an ego you got there, boy.

When God gives us these blatant signs and you say it something else, it only shows how cold your heart is.

While I'm sure your "signs" are almost as conclusive as those of the unrepentant old phony Harold Camping, I see little reason to choose one phony over another; even if the phony who's also a female impersonator tries to equate belief in his gobbledygook with faith in God. Grifters (which is what they are, after all) of that ilk will say anything to try and make people believe their nonsense.

 

[Believe the Impossible]

Excellent study into all of this; just one opinion, but lots of info to sink your teeth into. Author is a Christian and professor at the University of Kentucky in Greek, Hebrew, and Ancient Civilizations as well as devoting his time to this website which is particularly centered around the Tribulation end times. He posits the time frame for the Tribulation's beginning at 2026, culminating with Christ's return around 2033. He outlines, in depth, why this is a possibility and by no means sets any of this in stone. He includes charts that help visualize God's timetable of sorts. It is not for the faint of heart as it is very lengthy and in-depth. Take what you can...leave the rest. Enjoy! I did.

The Satanic Rebellion: Background to the Tribulation
Part 5:
The Seven Millennial Days of Human History

by Dr. Robert D. Luginbill​

Judgment, Restoration and Replacement: Part 5 of the Satanic Rebellion: Background to the Tribulation

 

[faithfulforever]

You Are Right On The Sun And Moon The The Rapture Could Well Be This Year
The Rapture Happens At Rev4;1 Notice The People The People Under The Throne Have Been Killed Rev.6;11 That Is The Main Harvest,the First Fruits Or Rapture Happens About 3 1/2 Years Before That

You realize how absurd you look capitalizing the first letter of every word?

The rapture can't be this year. Rev. 6.12 (2010-15) occurs before the Tribulation.

There is no rapture at 4.1 that's just John being received up to see a vision.

The people under the throne are not the main harvest, for they are raptured before the Tribulation and they include just the martyrs who are included in the first rapture, then they are told to wait a little longer for the rest of their brethren to come in from the Tribulation period. Consider those who are first raptured the firstfruits who are raptured alive and include the martyrs from the past 20 centuries and virgin firstfruits (Rev. 14.1-5). There are advanced parties and harbingers in every sphere.

The harvest (Rev. 14.14-16) occurs at the start of the last trumpet (11.15).

 

[faithfulforever]

One of the main reasons the Tribulation can't conclude later than 2022 is because there is not enough oil left in the world at that point. Any war that takes place over oil will be a good 15 years prior to 2035 when the last drop of conventional oil is used up.

And of course, past 2022 would be more than a lifetime away from when Israel became a nation.

1948 + 75 = 2023.

The 2,520 days of the Tribulation are from Feast of Trumpets Sept. 14, 2015 to Tisha B'Av Aug. 7, 2022.

Tisha B'Av Aug. 7, 2022 is the 1260th day of the Great Tribulation. 30 days more to the 1290th day are used for Jesus to judge the nations.

45 days more to the 1335th day takes us to Oct. 21, 2022 after the last 3 feasts are fulfilled. It is the 4th day from Simchat Torah. Simchat Torah is when the Torah is taken out of the Holy of Holies to be read once a year.

These 45 days more are used to set up Israel as the center of all nations from where Jesus reigns in the 3rd Temple for 1000 years and reigns over the nations with a rod of iron with His overcomers (not all believers, just the overcomers).

 

[faithfulforever]

It's amazing two different worlds. One world with Christ returning to reign for 1000 years with His ovecomers, and the other world of the Roman Chuch who says they are ruling now with Christ on earth.

 

[danielAMx]

Just goes to show you dreams can be deceptive. You are most susceptible when you have a passive mind for the evil spirits to enter, and the most passive time is when you are asleep.

Dreams based on fear are also the work of the devil, and fear other than of God (which is different concept/context) is also not good.

 

[eclipsenow]

It's amazing two different worlds. One world with Christ returning to reign for 1000 years with His ovecomers, and the other world of the Roman Chuch who says they are ruling now with Christ on earth.

No, Covenant Amil Protestants like myself say that the Kingdom of God will be in the New Heavens and New Earth where the Lord reigns supreme over all reality and re-creation! But here's the thing. Isaiah boldly proclaims that the Lord reigns over all the earth, even though the Lord was having trouble reigning over Israel and had to send them into exile to get them to try and obey Him. Care to explain all those 'Lord reigns' verses?

In other words, there is a sense in which Protestant Amil Covenant theologians like myself do see us ruling with Christ, right here, right now. It's called eschatological tension.

The prophecies were about Christ and Christians are fulfilled in Eschatological Tension, 'now and not yet'. We are now the kingdom of God, but not yet fully revealed. We are now seated in heaven reigning with Christ (Ephesians 2) but not yet physically, as such. We now have every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms, but don't feel like it. We are now already citizens of heaven, "a holy nation, a people belonging to God" but are still on a pilgrimage journey there.

As such, we dimly reflect the future reality of the Kingdom of God. It's not as simple as the Roman church claiming "Our people and church buildings and church schools, all that Catholic stuff, THAT'S the Kingdom of God." That's too simplistic to capture what the bible is actually saying here. Rather, the Kingdom of God is both an expected future hope of the New Heavens and New Earth and a present 'reflected' dimmer reality; unconsummated, not yet physically "installed" so to speak, but a reality still the same. And that's the worldwide Christian church of all who trust in Jesus for their salvation, not just Anglicans like myself, or Catholics who (claim) to be the only true church.

 

[danielAMx]

Excellent study into all of this; just one opinion, but lots of info to sink your teeth into. Author is a Christian and professor at the University of Kentucky in Greek, Hebrew, and Ancient Civilizations as well as devoting his time to this website which is particularly centered around the Tribulation end times. He posits the time frame for the Tribulation's beginning at 2026, culminating with Christ's return around 2033. He outlines, in depth, why this is a possibility and by no means sets any of this in stone. He includes charts that help visualize God's timetable of sorts. It is not for the faint of heart as it is very lengthy and in-depth. Take what you can...leave the rest. Enjoy! I did.

The Satanic Rebellion: Background to the Tribulation
Part 5:
The Seven Millennial Days of Human History

by Dr. Robert D. Luginbill​

It is not for the faith of heart, ahaa.

 

[Bible2]

doright said in post 376:

Mat 25;1-13 Says The Whole Bride Is Asleep

The 10 virgins parable (Mt. 25:1-13) shows the marriage of the church to Jesus won't occur until his 2nd coming (Mt. 25:10), which Jesus had just finished saying won't occur until immediately after the trib (Mt. 24:29-31), just like Rev. 19:7 shows the marriage won't occur until after the trib (of Rev. chs. 6-18). The parable's extra oil (Mt. 25:4) could represent the continued good works of believers, by which they'll be able to pass the judgment of the church (Mt. 25:19-30, Rom. 2:6-8) & enter the marriage of the church at the 2nd coming (Mt. 25:10, Rev. 19:7-21).

Also, the marriage supper (Rev. 19:9) hasn't yet begun by the time of Rev. 19, which won't occur until after the future trib of Rev. chs. 6-18. For re: the church, it'll be a literal feast in the earthly Jerusalem after the 2nd coming & the resurrection & marriage of the church at that time (Isa. 25:6-9, 1 Cor. 15:54, Rev. 19:7-20:6, 1 Thes. 4:15-16, 1 Cor. 15:21-23,51-54). While the church will enjoy a feast "of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined" (Isa. 25:6), the birds will feast on the corpses of the armies of the world defeated at the 2nd coming (Rev. 19:17-21).

--

Re: Mt. 25:6's "midnight", it could represent mid-trib, when the abomination of desolation (the AOD), possibly a standing, android image of the AC, will be set up in the holy place of a 3rd Jewish temple (Mt. 24:15, Dan. 11:31). So, when it says "at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh" (Mt. 25:6), this could mean at the mid-trib point when the AOD's set up, the church will be given the knowledge of the date (as in the year, month, & day) of the 2nd coming, that date being the 1,335th day after the day on which the AOD's set up (Dan. 12:11-12, cf. Rev. 16:15).

 

[Bible2]

eclipsenow said in post 384:

We do not know when the Lord will return.

Not yet. But believers could come to know the date of Jesus' 2nd coming in the future (see post 374).

Why is knowing the date of the Lord's return even important? What are we meant to DO?

Coming to know, at some point in the future, the date of Jesus' 2nd coming, will help us as believers to hang in there during the worst time of the future tribulation for Christians. As an analogy, imagine that during a persecution of Christians you're thrown naked into a walk-in freezer. The door is shut & the lights are turned off & you're just left there to slowly suffer the freezing cold. You could freak out at this if you have no idea how long you're going to have to be in there. But what if right after they turn the lights off, you see a little light in the corner, & you walk over & see a small note on the wall: "You will be let out & set free in 13.35 minutes". This would greatly help you to remain calm & hang in there patiently for the whole time, even though you might suffer terribly from the cold. In the same way, knowing exactly when Jesus' 2nd coming will occur (Dan. 12:11-12, Rev. 16:15) will help Christians during the worst time of the future tribulation to endure to the end (Mt. 24:13).

Dan. 12:11-12 (& Rev. 16:15) could mean exactly 1,335 literal days after the abomination of desolation (the AOD) (possibly a standing, android image of the AC) is set up in the holy place of a 3rd Jewish temple (Mt. 24:15, Dan. 11:31), Jesus will return, & blessed are those believers who wait & remain obedient until that day. If the literal 1,260 days of the AC's worldwide reign (Rev. 13:5-8, 12:6) will begin when the AOD's set up, & if the 7 vials of God's wrath will begin on the day after the 1,260 days of the AC's worldwide reign (Rev. 11:15,19, 15:5-16:1), & if the first 6 vials will be poured out over 30 days, then the 6th vial could be poured out on the 1,290th day after the AOD's set up (Dan. 12:11). It's on this 1,290th day that the blessing of Dan. 12:12/Rev. 16:15 could be given, after the 6th vial has been poured out (Rev. 16:12), encouraging those in the church still alive on the earth to keep holding on just 45 more days until Jesus returns on the 1,335th day. The 45 days could be taken up by the gathering together of the armies of the world to Armageddon (Rev. 16:14,16) (Har Megiddo: Mount Megiddo in northern Israel) & then their moving south to pillage Jerusalem, right before Jesus returns & defeats them (Zech. 14:2-21, Rev. 19:19-21).

Knowing the date might even work against godliness with some.

Coming to know, at some point in the future, the date of Jesus' 2nd coming, won't vitiate our need to still live each day knowing any of us could die at any time (Lk. 12:20, Jas. 4:14).

The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of.

Mt. 24:48-51's evil servant became evil & was surprised by the Lord's return because when the Lord didn't return sometime before or during the trib, the evil servant thought the Lord was indefinitely "delaying" his return (Mt. 24:48). But in fact the Lord's return won't be delayed at all, but will occur immediately after the trib (Mt. 24:29-31).

How sad it is that so many people spend so much time trying to nail Revelation to their timetables and chronologies when John says twice in that book that Jesus will come like a thief!

See the "chronologies" & "thief" parts of post 374.

 

[eclipsenow]

Excellent study into all of this; just one opinion, but lots of info to sink your teeth into. Author is a Christian and professor at the University of Kentucky in Greek, Hebrew, and Ancient Civilizations as well as devoting his time to this website which is particularly centered around the Tribulation end times. He posits the time frame for the Tribulation's beginning at 2026, culminating with Christ's return around 2033. He outlines, in depth, why this is a possibility and by no means sets any of this in stone. He includes charts that help visualize God's timetable of sorts. It is not for the faint of heart as it is very lengthy and in-depth. Take what you can...leave the rest. Enjoy! I did.

The Satanic Rebellion: Background to the Tribulation
Part 5:
The Seven Millennial Days of Human History

by Dr. Robert D. Luginbill​

Judgment, Restoration and Replacement: Part 5 of the Satanic Rebellion: Background to the Tribulation

It won't happen this way, not ever. Why? Because Jesus said he's going to return like a thief in the night. So that pretty much rules out making predictions, and I think it rules out Jesus gratifying those who make their INCOME off this ungodly past time. It's time to get back to gospel preaching, people! Futurism is a waste of time, as are endless pointless debates over silly Last Days timetables. We've been in the Last Days since Acts 2 and 2 Tim 3.

2 Timothy 3 is Paul's instruction about how TIMOTHY should live in the Last Days. (Which we've been in for 2000 years and counting).

You should know this, Timothy, that in the last days there will be very difficult times.2 For people will love only themselves and their money. They will be boastful and proud, scoffing at God, disobedient to their parents, and ungrateful. They will consider nothing sacred. 3 They will be unloving and unforgiving; they will slander others and have no self-control. They will be cruel and hate what is good. 4 They will betray their friends, be reckless, be puffed up with pride, and love pleasure rather than God. 5 They will act religious, but they will reject the power that could make them godly. Stay away from people like that!

Unless both Paul and Timothy knew that they were living in the Last Days, Timothy would have banged his head against a brick wall and told Paul "D'uh! I'm ONLY separated from the Last Days by 2000 years. How am I going to meet anyone from then in the FIRST PLACE?"

 

[WailingWall]

That will be soooooo cool come Feast of Trumpets Sept. 14, 2015 and a couple million people vanish to 3rd heaven "before the throne" (Rev. 7.9) at the first rapture according to readiness

Soo...how many rap t sures are there?

 

[eclipsenow]

Soo...how many rap t sures are there?

There is only one 'rapture' which is also called many other things, including the Judgement or more commonly today, 'Judgement Day'.

Covenant Amils see 'Judgement Day' as this one, huge, inescapable and instantaneous day. From the explicitly clear statements in the New Testament about the Last Day we know that when Jesus returns, the dead are raised, all is revealed and judged, and sin, Satan, and death are done away with. Heaven meets earth in a glorious new reality where we will exist in perfect harmony with our Lord for all eternity! There's just no room for a "half eternal, half mortal" merely geopolitical reign of Jesus on earth. The language around the Lord's return is too dramatic and final for that.

1: BOTH BELIEVERS AND UNBELIEVERS ARE RAISED TOGETHER ON THE LAST DAY AND THEN SAVED OR JUDGED!
(not 1000 years apart)
John 6:39 = Christians are raised for eternal life on the LAST DAY. Not 1007 years before the last day: not before some 7 year 'tribulation' and 1000 year "Millennium". We are raised on THE LAST DAY!
John 11:24 = Martha knows Lazarus will rise on the LAST DAY
John 12:48 = Jesus Judges on the LAST DAY
John 5:28 = All raised together for either salvation or judgement
Luke 17:24-28 = Jesus return will be OBVIOUS and inescapable: like lightning across the sky. Will be like days of Noah, when they were either taken and saved or left behind and DESTROYED.
Or like Lot, who were either saved or DESTROYED. In none of these examples were those 'Left Behind' able to continue their lives for 7 years! They were judged immediately. Noah didn't enter the ark and then 1000 years passed before the flood!
Matt 25:31-46 = the sorting of the sheep and the goats.
Matt 13:24-29 = weeds judged and burned and wheat saved.
1 Thess 4:13-17 = Christians are raised and saved forever.
1 Thess 5 = the ungodly are immediately judged!
2 Tim 4:1 = judge the living and the dead
Acts 17:31 = Jesus resurrection is PROOF that He will be the judge. (Because, I take it, resurrection demonstrates God's power over death and also precedes the final judgement!)
Psalm 2: his judgement will be sudden and will destroy all God's enemies
Matt: 16:27 = "For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done."


2. SATAN AND HIS MINIONS ALSO JUDGED
Rev 20:10 = at the end of this age the Devil is destroyed.
(Millennium = Symobolic of the perfect amount of time between the gospel events of Jesus incarnation and Jesus return as judge).

3. DEATH BANISHED, ETERNITY USHERED IN
As we have already seen above we are raised and then Judged to be innocent in Christ or damned forever. Then we are eternal beings!
Mark 10:30 = "in the age to come eternal life."
1 Cor 15:26 = "The last enemy to be destroyed is death".

4. DAY OF LORD = NEW HEAVENS AND NEW EARTH
2 Peter 3:10-13 = DAY OF LORD = like a thief = "a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells."

5. THIS *REALLY* MESSES WITH MILLENNIAL IDEAS - THERE IS NO NEED OF MARRIAGE OR BABIES!
Luke 20:35: "But those who are considered worthy of taking part in the age to come and in the resurrection of the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage,"
The Millennium cannot have both immortal resurrected Christians living alongside mortal sinners because:
* access to the age to come is via resurrection
* even if we 'smuggled them in' (so to speak) after a generation there would be no more mortals because there are no babies!

6. MORTAL BEINGS CANNOT ENTER THE 'ARRIVED' KINGDOM OF GOD!
(This is in contrast to the 'current' kingdom of God, the church, which is a spiritual kingdom 'not of this world'. When the kingdom actually arrives physically, mortality is put behind us).
1 Corinthians 15
"50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”
* This means resurrection = changed into our immortal bodies = Death conquered at the SAME TIME as the Lord's return.

So what to do with the Millennium, and indeed, the whole book of Revelation?

My first recommendation would be Revelation Unwrapped by John Richardson. This is available from bookdepository.co.uk quite cheap, and is a short, clear book taking the Symbolist approach to Revelation. That is, unlike modern 'futurists', Revelation is full of biblical symbols and is not dependent on modern newspaper headlines and geopolitics to understand. It's all about the gospel, and is a cracker of a sermon encouraging all Christians in all ages that have ever had to live under suffering.

The next book I recommend is 'Apocalypse Now and then' by Dr Paul Barnett, which is a bit partial preterist and a bit Symbolist.
Apocalypse now and then: reading Revelation today: Amazon.co.uk: Paul BARNETT: Books
Paul Barnett sees some things like the beasts of Revelation as being historical Roman Emperors, but again I'm a little reluctant to believe the book is only understandable with a Phd in History! But he is very helpful in most chapters and does interpret a lot of the bible's Symbolism.

Or if you don't have the time buy and read these books, try the free sermons at Sydney Anglicans. The following link has sermons listed by book of the bible. Scan down to the end and download the sermons. You'll be amazed at the consistency of reading Revelation with the REST of the New Testament!
Christmas Message 2011 | Sydneyanglicans.net

Or if you REALLY want to go deep, check out the free audio lectures by Dr Kim Riddlebarger. There's probably about 30 hours of material entitled "Amillennialism 101" on the down the right hand column here.
Riddleblog - The Latest Post

 

[Bible2]

eclipsenow said in post 413:

Jesus said he's going to return like a thief in the night.

See the "1 Thes. 5:2" part of post 374.

Futurism is a waste of time

It isn't, for the Bible gives believers clear warning ahead of time about everything they're going to have to face during the future tribulation (Mk. 13:23, Rev. chs. 6-18, 1:3, 22:16), so they can be better prepared mentally not to be blindsided (1 Pet. 4:12-13) or deceived by anything that's coming (Mt. 24:4-5,23-25, Rev. 13:13-18, 19:20), & so they can be better prepared mentally to endure the future tribulation with patience & faith to the end (Mt. 24:9-13, Rev. 13:7-10, 14:12-13, 20:4-6).

We've been in the Last Days since Acts 2

That's right. The last "days" began in the 1st century AD with Jesus' 1st coming (Heb. 1:2) & the Holy Spirit's pouring out at the Pentecost in Acts 2 (Acts 2:16-17). The last "days" are the last 3 roughly 1,000-year "days" (2 Pet. 3:8) of the 7 roughly 1,000-year "days" from the creation of Adam in roughly 4,000 BC to the future end of the present earth & the creation of the new earth (Rev. 21:1) in roughly 3,000 AD. So the last "days" are the roughly 3,000 years from Jesus' 1st coming to sometime after the future millennium (Rev. 20:4-6), which will be during the last roughly 1,000-year "day".

---

post 415:

John 6:39

In Jn. 6:39-40, 12:48, the original Greek word translated as the last "day" (hemera, G2250) doesn't have to mean the last 24-hour day, but can be used figuratively to refer to a much longer period of time (e.g. see the Greek of 2 Cor. 6:2, 2 Pet. 3:8, Jn. 8:56). Jn. 6:39-40, 12:48 will occur in the last period of time of this present earth, but it won't occur on the same 24-hour day (Rev. 20:5).

When Jesus returns, only the church will be bodily resurrected & finally-judged (1 Cor. 15:21-23, Rev. 20:5, Ps. 50:4-5, cf. Mk. 13:27; Mt. 25:19-30, 2 Cor. 5:10, Lk. 12:45-48). The bodily resurrected church (including those in the church who'd been beheaded by the AC) will then reign on the earth with the returned Jesus for 1,000 years (Rev. 20:4-6, 5:10, 2:26-29). Only sometime after the 1,000 years & the subsequent Gog/Magog rebellion are over (Rev. 20:7-10, Ezek. chs. 38-39) will the rest of the dead be bodily resurrected & finally-judged at the great white throne judgment (Rev. 20:11-15).

 

[Bible2]

eclipsenow said in post 415:

John 5:28

Re: Jn. 5:28-29, it wasn't until much later (cf. Jn. 16:12) that Jesus showed the apostle John there'll be 2 (still-unfulfilled) bodily resurrections separated by 1,000 years (Rev. 20:5). Jn. 5:28-29 can include both of these, for the original Greek word translated as "hour" doesn't have to mean a literal hour, but can refer figuratively to any period of time. E.g., the last "hour" of 1 Jn. 2:18 (Greek) has been going on for the last 2,000 years. So the "hour" of everyone's still-future physical resurrection (Jn. 5:28-29) can easily span over a 1,000-year period (Rev. 20:5).

Also, at both the 1st & 2nd resurrection, some will undergo "the resurrection of life", while others will undergo "the resurrection of damnation" (Jn. 5:29). For the 1st resurrection, at Jesus' still-unfulfilled 2nd coming (Rev. 19:7-20:6, 1 Cor. 15:21-23,51-53, 1 Thes. 4:15-16), before the millennium (Rev. 20:4-6), will be of all those who became Christians (1 Cor. 15:21-23), some of whom will lose their salvation at the 2nd coming (e.g. Lk. 12:45-46), so that their resurrection will be a "resurrection of damnation" (Jn. 5:29), a resurrection "unto shame and everlasting contempt" (Dan. 12:2), because of such things as unrepentant sin (Heb. 10:26-29), unrepentant laziness (Mt. 25:26,30), or apostasy (Heb. 6:4-8).

The 2nd resurrection, at the great white throne judgment (the GWTJ) (Rev. 20:11-15), after the millennium & subsequent events are over (Rev. 20:7-15), will include all those of all times who never became Christians, & all those who became Christians during the millennium (Isa. 66:19-21). At the GWTJ, only those Christians who'll lose their salvation (& so will have their names blotted out of the book of life: Rev. 3:5) will be cast into the everlasting punishment of the lake of fire along with all non-Christians (Rev. 20:15,10, Mt. 25:41,46, Rev. 14:10-11, Mk. 9:45-46).

Matt 25:31-46

Mt. 25:31 doesn't mean Mt. 25:32-46 (just as 2 Pet. 3:10a doesn't mean 2 Pet. 3:10b) will happen immediately at the 2nd coming, only that it will happen sometime subsequent to the 2nd coming, at the great white throne judgment (the GWTJ) (Rev. 20:11-15), after the future millennium & subsequent events are over (Rev. 20:7-15). Mt. 25:32-46 refers to the "nations" being judged by their works at the GWTJ (Rev. 20:12-13), whereas at the 2nd coming, Jesus will judge only those in the church (Ps. 50:4-5, cf. Mk. 13:27; Mt. 25:19-30). Also, Mt. 25:41,46 refers to the unsaved being sent (at the time of Mt. 25:41,46) into the everlasting punishment of the lake of fire at the GWTJ (Rev. 20:15), whereas at the 2nd coming, only the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) & his False Prophet will be cast into the lake of fire (Rev. 19:20).

Matt 13:24-29

Re: the weeds/tares, Mt. 13:38's good seed are the elect, & the weeds/tares are the nonelect, who can't possibly believe in Jesus (Jn. 8:42-47). Mt. 13:40-42 refers to the great white throne judgment (the GWTJ) (Rev. 20:11-14), after the future millennium & subsequent events are over (Rev. 20:7-10), when the unsaved will be cast into the lake of fire (Rev. 20:15). Mt. 13:43's kingdom of the Father is after the GWTJ, when a new earth will be created & God the Father will descend from heaven in New Jerusalem to live with the church on the new earth (Rev. 21:1-3).

 

[eclipsenow]

I'm not reading your posts Bible2. Please don't answer my posts when I'm not even reading your posts or in a conversation with you. That will just confirm you as an internet troll.

 

[Bible2]

eclipsenow said in post 415:

1 Thess 5 = the ungodly are immediately judged!

1 Thes. 5:3 doesn't require the eternal judgment of the unsaved (Rev. 20:11-15) will occur immediately at Jesus' 2nd coming.

1 Thes. 5:3 could include reference to when, near the end of the future tribulation of Rev. chs. 6-18, at the death of the 2 witnesses, the unsaved world will rejoice & make merry, thinking it's now free from the tormenting plagues from the 2 witnesses (Rev. 11:10,6). But little will the unsaved world realize that the plagues of the 7 vials of God's (temporal) judgment & wrath will then be poured out upon it (Rev. 16), & then Jesus will return & bring the 2nd-coming (yet still temporal) judgment & wrath (Rev. 19:11-20:3). Between the temporal judgment & wrath of Rev. 19:11-20:3 & the eternal judgment & wrath of Rev. 20:11-15 will occur the millennium & subsequent Gog/Magog rebellion (Rev. 20:4-10, Ezek. chs. 38-39).

The unsaved people of the world will have no idea most of them are going to be killed at the 2nd coming until it happens (Mt. 24:37-39), for they could think the 2nd coming had already occurred with the coming into power of the Antichrist's (the AC's) miracle-working False Prophet (FP) (Rev. 13:13-14, 19:20), who could claim to be Jesus returned. And just as the people of the world shortly before Noah's flood no doubt rejected the idea YHWH had the power to actually cause a global flood that would kill them, so the people of the world at the end of the trib could reject the idea YHWH has the power to actually defeat them. For during the trib's latter half, the world will see the power of Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) & his fallen angels (Rev. 12:9), & the power Lucifer gives to the AC to take over the entire earth (Rev. 13:4-8), & to utterly revile YHWH year after year without being destroyed (Rev. 13:6, Dan. 11:36), & to physically overcome and kill the church in every nation (Rev. 13:7-10, 14:12-13, 20:4-6, Mt. 24:9-13). And the world will see the amazing miraculous powers Lucifer gives to the FP by which he'll be able to even call fire down from heaven in the sight of everyone (Rev. 13:13, cf. 2 Thes. 2:9).

And near the end of the trib, the world will see the AC's defeat of the amazingly-powerful 2 witnesses of YHWH (Rev. 11:3-9), after which defeat the world will rejoice & make merry & send gifts to each other because the 2 witnesses had been sending plagues on the world (Rev. 11:10). And even though those plagues will be shortly followed by even more plagues from YHWH, poured out directly from heaven (Rev. 16) (the trib's final stage), the people of the world won't lose their confidence that YHWH can still be defeated. For after most of the plagues from heaven are over, the world will see the amazing miraculous powers of some unclean spirits, convincing the armies of the world to gather together for a battle against YHWH (Rev. 16:13-14, 19:19). And so the world could come to that battle at the very end of the trib with the same careless attitude as some people at the start of the American Civil War, who held picnics at the expected 1st battleground of Bull Run/Manassas to watch the battle & what they expected to be a quick & easy victory.

2 Tim 4:1 = judge the living and the dead

2 Tim. 4:1 can include both of the future final-judgments, for Jesus will finally-judge only the church immediately at his future appearing (2nd coming) (Ps. 50:3-5, cf. Mk. 13:27), whereas the unsaved won't be finally-judged until the great white throne judgment (Rev. 20:11-15), which can be thought of as the 3rd & final stage of the physical aspect of Jesus' kingdom, the 1st stage being Jesus' post-2nd coming 1,000-year reign on the earth with the bodily resurrected church (Rev. 19:7-20:6, 5:10, 2:26-29, Zech. 14:3-21), & the 2nd stage being after the 1,000 years are over, when the Gog/Magog rebellion & its defeat will occur (Rev. 20:7-10, Ezek. chs. 38-39).

 

[Bible2]

eclipsenow said in post 415:

Psalm 2: his judgement will be sudden and will destroy all God's enemies

Ps. 2:1-3 refers to what will happen after the future millennium, at the time of the Gog/Magog rebellion (Rev. 20:7-10, Ezek. chs. 38-39). For it will be during the future millennium that the kings of the earth will have been placed under the bands/cords (Ps. 2:3), i.e., the physical rule, of the returned Jesus (Ps. 2:6, 72:8-11, 66:3).

Just as when we figuratively "break" a horse, we don't destroy it, but force it to submit to us, so Ps. 2:9 doesn't mean the unsaved people left alive at Jesus' 2nd coming (Mt. 24:39b-40) will be destroyed by him. Instead, it refers to them figuratively being "broken" by him so they'll submit to his worldwide reign during the millennium (Ps. 2:10-12, 72:8-11, 66:3, Zech. 14:9,16-19). That's why other verses say Jesus & the bodily resurrected church will "rule" the nations with a rod of iron (Rev. 19:15, 2:26-29, 5:10, 20:4-6), not kill them. The nations left alive at the 2nd coming will be allowed to survive the entire millennium; that's why after the millennium is over there'll still be nations (ethnos) alive on the earth who'll be deceived by the devil into committing the Gog/Magog rebellion (Rev. 20:7-10, Ezek. chs. 38-39).

Matt: 16:27

Mt. 16:27 doesn't require the final judgment of every man immediately at Jesus' 2nd coming. All it requires is every man be judged by him sometime subsequent to his 2nd coming. (See the last paragraph of post 416)

Rev 20:10 = at the end of this age the Devil is destroyed.

That's right, but Rev 20:10 won't occur until after the future part of this age: i.e. the millennium & the subsequent Gog/Magog rebellion (Rev. 20:7-10).

(Millennium = Symobolic of the perfect amount of time between the gospel events of Jesus incarnation and Jesus return as judge).

The 1,000 in Rev. 20:2-6 is literal, just as the 1,000 is literal in, e.g., Num. 31:4-6, 35:4, Judg. 20:10, 2 Kin. 15:19, 1 Chr. 19:6, Song of Songs 8:11. Also, the millennium won't begin until after Jesus' 2nd coming (Rev. 19:7-20:6, Zech. 14:3-21), when he'll reign on the earth with the bodily resurrected church for 1,000 years (Rev. 20:4-6, 5:10, 2:26-29, Ps. 2, 66:3-4). During the millennium, Jesus will place obedient Christians over cities (Lk. 19:17-19) & nations (Rev. 2:26-29) & political divisions within nations (Mt. 19:28, Lk. 22:30), while Jesus will be King of Kings (Rev. 19:16) over the entire earth (Zech. 14:9, Ps. 72:8-11), reigning in the earthly Jerusalem (Mic. 4:1-4, Zech. 14:8-21).