LDS Celestial Marriage...100% false.

[Rescued One]

All people that believe in Jesus will make it to heaven.

Don't mislead people. Mormons have multiple kingdoms that they refer to as "heaven." The only place that your two highest gods dwell, is the Church of the Firstborn, the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom.

If that diagram isn't clear enough, (liars is misspelled) let's try this one:

Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual, Enrichment G, p.395.

When you present carefully selected words that make Mormonism sound enticing to those who barely know anything about your religion, it should send up red flags to those people. But those people are trusting you for accurate information!

The first chart I presented shows the importance of baptism, but your church recognizes no baptism except the ones performed by certain members of The Church of Jesus of Latter-day Saints.

If you want to partake of the highest levels of heaven, then you do that which allows you to participate. If you do not wish to partake of the highest levels of heaven, or you have been brought up to believe another doctrine, then you do not do that which allows you to participate. It is just that simple.

Those people become slaves to your church.

"Some of our greatest blessings come through our willingness to sacrifice as the Lord directs."
Living the Law of Sacrifice

(Teaching: Church leaders are directed by God to tell you your assignments. God is calling you to say, "Yes, I'm willing to obey.")

“And after many days an angel of the Lord appeared unto Adam, saying: Why dost thou offer sacrifices unto the Lord? And Adam said unto him: I know not, save the Lord commanded me.

“And then the angel spake, saying: This thing is a similitude of the sacrifice of the Only Begotten of the Father, which is full of grace and truth” (Moses 5:6–7)...

“It is generally supposed that sacrifice was entirely done away when the Great Sacrifice [i.e.,] the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus was offered up, and that there will be no necessity for the ordinance of sacrifice in [the] future; but those who assert this are certainly not acquainted with the duties, privileges and authority of the [LDS/Mormon] Priesthood, or with the Prophets."

“The offering of sacrifice has ever been connected and forms a part of the duties of the Priesthood” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, sel. Joseph Fielding Smith [1976], 172)...

Obedience is a great and important part of the law of sacrifice. The Lord acknowledged the Prophet Joseph Smith’s obedience and sacrifice in these words: “Behold, I have seen your sacrifices, and will forgive all your sins; I have seen your sacrifices in obedience to that which I have told you” (D&C 132:50).

The happiness that comes from obedience can be seen in the lives of many people. When we are obedient, we are blessed with greater ability to communicate with our Heavenly Father and to know and do His will. The willingness of faithful Latter-day Saints to obey the Lord’s call to serve makes possible the Church’s ability to carry on its mission, including missionary work.
Living the Law of Sacrifice

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe that there are certain ordinances that you need to partake of the blessings and glories of the highest levels of heaven. So we do these things in the hopes that it will lead to a better eternal life, closer to God and his Son Jesus Christ.

Celestial marriage is just one of those things that we believe you must do in order to be in the highest levels of heaven. So that is what we do. The by-product of Celestial marriage is a stronger marriage that leads to stronger families and therefore a blessing given to us even here on earth.

Not all temple marriages are stronger. You forgot to mention that there is temple divorce.

 

[Rescued One]

If marriage was eternal, why would the marriage vows include the words "until death do us part", or "as long as we both shall live"?

I've attended very few weddings that still use the traditional vows. Mormon temple weddings definitely do NOT.

 

[Rescued One]

What Josh Powell did was disobey the multiple vows he had made in the temple and he should not have had a temple recommend if he wasn't willing to obey the leaders of his church.
Disappearance of Susan Powell - Wikipedia

 

[Peter1000]

Don't mislead people.

I did not mislead people. I said in the next sentence that if you want to be in the higher level of heaven you have to do..... That should enlighten an average person that if there is a higher level, there is a lower level too, and that we believe there are many levels in our belief in heaven. So sorry, I don't see the deception. Besides I am not talking to people who are ignorant of our teachings. You teach a full Mormon Sunday School lesson every day, and I thank you for that.

When you present carefully selected words that make Mormonism sound enticing to those who barely know anything about your religion, it should send up red flags to those people. But those people are trusting you for accurate information!

We teach a first level of the gospel and add to that as persons are ready. No person can understand all the doctrines of Christianity in their fullest on day one. That is the problem that Paul ran into while teaching the Corinthians. He wanted to teach them the meatier parts of the gospel of Jesus Christ, but could not because they would have rejected it and turned away from him. (1 Corinthians 3:2)

As it turns out, the Corinthians, and all the churches of Asia, with only their milk teachings of the gospel of Chirst turned against Paul anyway. (2 Timothy 1:15)

The first chart I presented shows the importance of baptism, but your church recognizes no baptism except the ones performed by certain members of The Church of Jesus of Latter-day Saints.

How could we recognize another churches baptism, when we preach and teach that the Church of Jesus Christ is the only church on earth that has the priesthood and the keys to the priesthood and so, whatever we bind on earth is bound in heaven and whatever is loosed on earth is loosed in heaven.

If you are not working with these keys, heaven does not recognize your work. No matter how diligent or good you are, you have to be doing things in the order that God has set up. God is a God of order, not a God of confusion, and that is the state of the Christian churches today without the priesthood and priesthood keys.

Those people become slaves to your church.

You equate living a good life for Christ and doing good things for people and your family being a slave to our church? To obey Jesus Christ is necessary, and sometimes that requires you to sacrifice some of your time and money to obey. If you are not willing to do these things, you will be in heaven because you believe in Christ, but you will not be in the highest level of heaven. As you can see, you will determine the level of heaven you are comfortable with, and that is where you will dwell for eternity.

Not all temple marriages are stronger. You forgot to mention that there is temple divorce.

Of course there is temple divorces. But the divorce rate for temple attenders is lower than non-temple attenders. With fewer divorces, the families are stronger and more active in the church and more obedient to the will of Jesus Christ.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

 

[Rescued One]

There is no higher level of heaven. And sending people to another kingdom isn't heaven either.

The Bible is written to inform us. It doesn't day, "Don't read the next chapter."

I had one marriage to one man until he passed away. God isn't looking at numbers.

 

[Peter1000]

I've attended very few weddings that still use the traditional vows. Mormon temple weddings definitely do NOT.

Those non-temple weddings for church members who are not willing to come to a higher kind of living the gospel of Jesus Christ, still use "until death do you part", in their civil marriages.

 

[Ironhold]

It just shows that when demons are involved, whole families are destroyed.

Powell Senior, the mainline Christian minister, was the demon here.

To say otherwise is to use tragedy for one's own end.

 

[Rescued One]

You equate living a good life for Christ and doing good things for people and your family being a slave to our church? To obey Jesus Christ is necessary, and sometimes that requires you to sacrifice some of your time and money to obey. If you are not willing to do these things, you will be in heaven because you believe in Christ, but you will not be in the highest level of heaven. As you can see, you will determine the level of heaven you are comfortable with, and that is where you will dwell for eternity.

Worshiping and serving an exalted man(your version of a heavenly father), false prophets and false leaders is not obedience to Christ, having faith in Christ isn't to want a higher level in heaven, and if I determine which level I'm judged worthy of, I was under obligation to work for that level. But then your god is obligated to reward me based on whether or not I performed the works your prophets said I had to obey.

The Bible says, "Ye must be born again." The Bible also says:

1 John 5
9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. 10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. 11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

I am a slave to Christ. He directs my path. I acknowledge Him, not President Nelson.

Of course there is temple divorces. But the divorce rate for temple attenders is lower than non-temple attenders. With fewer divorces, the families are stronger and more active in the church and more obedient to the will of Jesus Christ.

Millions of people are married outside your temples. You don't know what all their marriages and families are like.

 

[Rescued One]

Those non-temple weddings for church members who are not willing to come to a higher kind of living the gospel of Jesus Christ, still use "until death do you part", in their civil marriages.

So? I didn't day anything about weddings in Mormon chapels.

 

[Peter1000]

There is no higher level of heaven. And sending people to another kingdom isn't heaven either.

The Bible is written to inform us. It doesn't day, "Don't read the next chapter."

I had one marriage to one man until he passed away. God isn't looking at numbers.

There are levels in heaven. The bible even speaks of a 3rd heaven. What does that mean? Oh I know that Christians have figured out that is somehow related to the universe as compared to earth and to the heaven around the earth, but the real truth is that there is a 3rd heaven in the heavens of our Heavenly Father. This supports our 3 heaven belief system. If you don't believe it fine, we do, and find support in the bible.

The bible even gives the names of 2 of the 3 heavens, which it calls "glories". The first is the Celestial and the 2nd is the Terestrial. It does not give the 3rd, but JS tells us it is the Telestial. (see 1 Corinthians 15:40-41)

You are right, God is not looking at numbers, sorry for your loss.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Powell Senior, the mainline Christian minister, was the demon here.

To say otherwise is to use tragedy for one's own end.

But it was Powell junior who used the hatchet to murder his children. He made that choice and He has to stand in the judgment and answer for that by himself, in the same way that Powell senior has to stand in the judgment and answer for his own sins.

 

[Rescued One]

There are levels in heaven. The bible even speaks of a 3rd heaven. What does that mean? Oh I know that Christians have figured out that is somehow related to the universe as compared to earth and to the heaven around the earth, but the real truth is that there is a 3rd heaven in the heavens of our Heavenly Father. This supports our 3 heaven belief system. If you don't believe it fine, we do, and find support in the bible.

Yes, Christians understand some things that Mormons don't.

The bible even gives the names of 2 of the 3 heavens, which it calls "glories". The first is the Celestial and the 2nd is the Terestrial. It does not give the 3rd, but JS tells us it is the Telestial. (see 1 Corinthians 15:40-41).

There is no glory in being separated from God nor in following false teachers.

You are right, God is not looking at numbers,

There are ways to have a good marriage. Many couples don't know those ways.

sorry for your loss.

Thank you for your kindness.

 

[Ironhold]

But it was Powell junior who used the hatchet to murder his children. He made that choice and He has to stand in the judgment and answer for that by himself, in the same way that Powell senior has to stand in the judgment and answer for his own sins.

Either way though, trying to cite the Powell case as "proof" that we're somehow "evil" represents either a shocking misunderstanding of the basic facts of the case or a heinous attempt at smear.

All the evidence indicates that Susan's death was either due to Powell Sr. giving in to his evil nature or Josh Powell wanting to be rid of a very inconvenient wife so that he could be in his dad's good graces. Josh then tried to handle clean-up, and took his sons with him when he realized that the cops were finally catching on.

Susan could have been a member of any other religion Powell Sr. didn't like and odds are this still would have happened this way.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Either way though, trying to cite the Powell case as "proof" that we're somehow "evil" represents either a shocking misunderstanding of the basic facts of the case or a heinous attempt at smear.

All the evidence indicates that Susan's death was either due to Powell Sr. giving in to his evil nature or Josh Powell wanting to be rid of a very inconvenient wife so that he could be in his dad's good graces. Josh then tried to handle clean-up, and took his sons with him when he realized that the cops were finally catching on.

Susan could have been a member of any other religion Powell Sr. didn't like and odds are this still would have happened this way.

The truth is that every person outside of Christ is dead in their sins, rebelling against God and deserving of hell. Every single person is in the same boat. The first Adam is the representative of the whole human race, therefore when he rebelled against God, then everyone who came after him is a rebel.

The only way to escape the judgment and hell for being a rebel against God is to receive Christ, because when He died on the cross He has us, the rebel, and the person who receives Christ because as Christ in God's eyes. This is what the substitution of Christ is all about.

So that deals with the evil issue.

As I said in my previous post, each man has to stand before God to answer for his own sins, not the sins of others. In receiving Christ, we judged ourselves for our own sins, and because we did that, we will not be judged, because we are judged already and cleansed from all unrighteousness.

So Powell Jr, can't blame his father for his decision to murder his wife and children. He has to answer for that himself.

 

[Peter1000]

Worshiping and serving an exalted man(your version of a heavenly father), false prophets and false leaders is not obedience to Christ, having faith in Christ isn't to want a higher level in heaven, and if I determine which level I'm judged worthy of, I was under obligation to work for that level. But then your god is obligated to reward me based on whether or not I performed the works your prophets said I had to obey.

The Bible says, "Ye must be born again." The Bible also says:

1 John 5
9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. 10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. 11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

I am a slave to Christ. He directs my path. I acknowledge Him, not President Nelson.

Millions of people are married outside your temples. You don't know what all their marriages and families are like.

Yes, you may receive direct revelation from Christ himself. That is a given, as a believer.

But as in the time of the Church of Jesus Christ of the First Century, Jesus called leaders of the church to help its members understand what he wanted them to do. Remember the apostles received revelation from Jesus Christ for all the members of his church in that time.

I suggest that if Jesus had not set up a church with apostles, prophets, bishops, priests, pastors, deacons, teachers, seventy, elders, etc., then you would be right about only being a slave to Christ. But he did set up this organization to help you its member.

So how can a bishop help you? How can an elder help you? How can an apostle help you? These were all leaders in Christ's church in the first century? If President Peter the apostle had called you to go on a mission to Macedonia and preach the gsopel, would you have told Peter that he wasn't Jesus and tell him to mind his own business?
If your paster in your church asked yout to teach a class every Sunday, would you tell him he wasn't Jesus and get out of your life, and you will not be a slave to him? Your acting
like you are not going to listen to any leader of your church, but only if Jesus comes down from heaven and askes you to do something. Is that right?

The Bible says, "Ye must be born again." The Bible also says:

There is endless debate about what that means. 3,000 different Christians churches debate that wording every day of every year. We all have our individual interpretations of that event, but no end to the confusion of what that means universally, until Jesus comes again and tells us again in our language.


I don't know all the statistics, but I do know that marriages in the temple suffer fewer marriage divorces than marriages outside a temple. And of course I do not know every family either, but I have seen hundreds of families both inside the church and out and those families that belong to temple attenders are a much more cohesive group of people that tend to care for each other more and there is more security and safety in those homes. Again, that is only a generalization. The reason is that temple goers tend to have Jesus as a center piece of their homes and try to teach their children the values of living like Jesus. You must agree that would strengthen a home from one that has money and property as the centerpiece of their home.

 

[mmksparbud]

There are levels in heaven. The bible even speaks of a 3rd heaven. What does that mean? Oh I know that Christians have figured out that is somehow related to the universe as compared to earth and to the heaven around the earth, but the real truth is that there is a 3rd heaven in the heavens of our Heavenly Father. This supports our 3 heaven belief system. If you don't believe it fine, we do, and find support in the bible.

The bible even gives the names of 2 of the 3 heavens, which it calls "glories". The first is the Celestial and the 2nd is the Terestrial. It does not give the 3rd, but JS tells us it is the Telestial. (see 1 Corinthians 15:40-41)

You are right, God is not looking at numbers, sorry for your loss.

There are no levels of heaven to obtain to. We are promised eternal life on this remade earth and nothing else is stated. Nothing speaks about different kinds of eternal life--just one,

Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Act_10:34 "Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:'

The is the firmament above us, that is the 1st heavens, there is outer space after that, where all the planets and galaxies are---there is the 3rd heaven---where God and His angels dwell--that is what the 3 heavens are. Plain and simple.
Celestial things are things dwelling in the skies--terrestrial things are things dwelling on the earth. Any dictionary will tell you that.

ce·les·tial
[səˈlesCHəl]
ADJECTIVE

1. positioned in or relating to the sky, or outer space as observed in astronomy.
   "a celestial body"
   synonyms:
   (in) space · heavenly · astronomical · extraterrestrial · stellar · planetary · in the sky · in the heavens · superterrestrial
   • belonging or relating to heaven.
     "the celestial city"
     synonyms:
     heavenly · holy · saintly · divine · godly · godlike · ethereal · paradisical · Elysian · spiritual · empyrean · superlunary · immortal · angelic · seraphic · cherubic ·
     [more]
   • supremely good.
   • 
     ter·res·tri·al
     [təˈrestrēəl]
     ADJECTIVE
     1. of, on, or relating to the earth.
        "increased ultraviolet radiation may disrupt terrestrial ecosystems"
        synonyms:
        earthly · worldly · mundane · earthbound · tellurian · terrene ·
        [more]
     NOUN
     1. an inhabitant of the earth.
     "the celestial beauty of music"

 

[Ignatius the Kiwi]

All people that believe in Jesus will make it to heaven.

If you want to partake of the highest levels of heaven, then you do that which allows you to participate. If you do not wish to partake of the highest levels of heaven, or you have been brought up to believe another doctrine, then you do not do that which allows you to participate. It is just that simple.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe that there are certain ordinances that you need to partake of the blessings and glories of the highest levels of heaven. So we do these things in the hopes that it will lead to a better eternal life, closer to God and his Son Jesus Christ.

Celestial marriage is just one of those things that we believe you must do in order to be in the highest levels of heaven. So that is what we do. The by-product of Celestial marriage is a stronger marriage that leads to stronger families and therefore a blessing given to us even here on earth.

What does it mean to be closer to God and Christ within this context? Spatially you will be separated from God by some distance, so are we only talking about proximity within the Celestial Kingdom? So yeah, I think your right, technically you will be closer to Christ if you have a Celestial marriage though what does that mean when you will have to concern yourself more with your wife than God? After all Saint Paul tells us the unmarried are concerned with the Lord's affairs and not how they can please their spouses. Attention and devotion to God will necessarily have to be divided, more given to your spouse than to God (simply because the spouse is immediately present and God cannot be present to all his children at once). Is this what you mean by closeness to God? Even then it seems those within the Terrestial kingdom are more dedicated to God since they are unmarried angels ministering to whatever God needs.

I didn't see you address my contention that celestial marriage seems to be a Sacrament that God doesn't provide something for. The only element he seems to provide is the blessing or permission for such a union but the union itself is between two entities which apart from each other cannot attain the greatest existence or state of blessing. Thus there is an element which is dependent not upon God, but on the free choice of each spouse to agree to an eternal marriage. How does this compare to the Eucharist, where Christ is actively present and the believer receives his body? Christ is the main agent, not the bread.

Would this not make, the crowning sacrament, the best and greatest sacrament a human institution rather than receiving anything from God?

 

[twin.spin]

Don't mislead people. Mormons have multiple kingdoms that they refer to as "heaven." The only place that your two highest gods dwell, is the Church of the Firstborn, the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom..

Phoebe,
Jesus revealed:

"... and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen." Mat 28:20 KJV​

in other words, JS's Great Apostasy claim is a deception.

Biblical Christianity teaches that there will always be believers on earth. The true church consists of believers, so it will always have a presence "even unto the end of the world". Mat 28:20

 

[Rescued One]

Yes, you may receive direct revelation from Christ himself. That is a given, as a believer.

But as in the time of the Church of Jesus Christ of the First Century, Jesus called leaders of the church to help its members understand what he wanted them to do. Remember the apostles received revelation from Jesus Christ for all the members of his church in that time.

2 Timothy 3
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

The Bible contains the doctrine and instructions and warnings that are necessary for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

I suggest that if Jesus had not set up a church with apostles, prophets, bishops, priests, pastors, deacons, teachers, seventy, elders, etc., then you would be right about only being a slave to Christ.

I follow Christ, not Mormonism. Mormonism is a false gospel.

Galatians 1
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

But he did set up this organization to help you its member.

Book of Mormon:
9 And it came to pass that he said unto me: Look, and behold that great and abominable church, which is the mother of abominations, whose founder is the devil.
10 And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the harlot of all the earth.

Joseph Smith's lie:
30 And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth,
with which I, the Lord, am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and not individually—

I am NOT a member of your organization! God gave me a revelation that I should flee from it. Your rude leaders (some of whom did not even know me) excommunicated me for asking to have my name removed from its membership rolls.

So how can a bishop help you?

Perhaps by yelling at me over the phone as mine did when I called to ask him to relieve my home teaches from the responsibity of visiting me each month?

How can an elder help you? How can an apostle help you? These were all leaders in Christ's church in the first century? If President Peter the apostle had called you to go on a mission to Macedonia and preach the gsopel, would you have told Peter that he wasn't Jesus and tell him to mind his own business?

I don't recall ever telling anyone to mind his own business. Why did you say that?

If your paster in your church asked yout to teach a class every Sunday, would you tell him he wasn't Jesus and get out of your life, and you will not be a slave to him? Your acting
like you are not going to listen to any leader of your church, but only if Jesus comes down from heaven and askes you to do something. Is that right?

I hope you've taken a deep breath. It will help you slow down and use correct spelling. God told us to love Him with our minds as well as our hearts. If someone asks me to lead people astray, I will refuse to do it. Jesus doesn't have to come down to tell us His will. Jesus gave us the Holy Spirit to be with us always.

This verse is true:

Proverbs 3
6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

The Bible says, "Ye must be born again."

There is endless debate about what that means. 3,000 different Christians churches debate that wording every day of every year. We all have our individual interpretations of that event, but no end to the confusion of what that means universally, until Jesus comes again and tells us again in our language.

I'm sorry you are confused.

2 Timothy 3:16

I don't know all the statistics, but I do know that marriages in the temple suffer fewer marriage divorces than marriages outside a temple. And of course I do not know every family either, but I have seen hundreds of families both inside the church and out and those families that belong to temple attenders are a much more cohesive group of people that tend to care for each other more and there is more security and safety in those homes. Again, that is only a generalization. The reason is that temple goers tend to have Jesus as a center piece of their homes and try to teach their children the values of living like Jesus. You must agree that would strengthen a home from one that has money and property as the centerpiece of their home.

Cohesive: : the act or state of sticking together tightly

Cults stick together. Lots of groups stick together. The followers of David Koresh stuck together and ignored the government.

Train cars are attached to the engine and if the engine jumps the track....

 

[Ironhold]

That 2 Timothy 3 is so often used to try to argue that the canon is closed always makes me wonder, as the passage in context is clearly not talking about that.