LDS Celestial Marriage...100% false.

[Rescued One]

For the record:

We do not believe there is marriage in heaven.

No, that is not what he said.

In many ways, the confirmation of a couple's sealing is a "stamp of approval," given by God, that He recognizes that their union will be eternal. This is the true definition of a celestial marriage—one that has been ratified by God as being in full force and effect not only in this life, but in the life to come.
Celestial marriage - Mormonism, The Mormon Church, Beliefs, & Religion - MormonWiki

 

[Rescued One]

Elohim has never been God's name.

 

[mmksparbud]

They can't decide for themselves because they will not have my side to compare with yours.

The green apron symbolizes the green leaves that Adam and Eve put around themselves when they suddenly realized they were naked, and they did not want to be naked before God. It has nothing to do with thanking satan for the fall. See what I mean. I don't know how you get these ideas.

You are somehow stuck on Adam/Eve and when they could have children. It is a very small deal, and you seem to think it is a great big deal. See what I mean. You are far away from LDS truth.

But tell people what you think. I have actually been invited into peoples houses because they heard the strangest thing from their friend and they wanted to know if it was true. We would have never got into that house except their friend told them a lopsided whopper of a lie about what Mormons believe. So be careful what you say, you may be the very cause of someone opening their doors to us, and becoming a member.

I know it's supposed to represent the leaves they covered up with. But you still make the assertion that Adam and Eve would never have conceived had it not been for the fall. Any way you want to word that---you are grateful to Satan for providing you with children, Sugar coat it all you want. Such a thing is not true anyway.

 

[HeartenedHeart]

First of all, I would like to respond to this, since Jane will not.

Have you ever heard of the concept of the "keys of the kingdom of Heaven"?

If you have try to explain what they are and what they do?

Yes (as I have read the Bible from Gen. to Rev.), I have heard of the concept of the "keys of the kingdom of heaven", as found in:

Mat_16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

It's parallel is again found in:

Mat 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Again:

Jhn 17:8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received [them], and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

There are multiple "keys" (plural), one of which is "Truth":

Joh_8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Jesus Himself is a key:

Joh_8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

God's word, being Truth, is a key:

Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Mar 4:11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

Luk 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

For this was given to unlock the mysteries of the Kingdom of God, for the Pharisees had "taken away "the key of knowledge":

Mat 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

Luk_11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.

Yet, Jesus Christ, is the one with the keys, to open or close:

Rev 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

Isa_22:22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

It deals with the power within the body of Christ to accept members into it, or to cast members out of it, corporately:

1Co 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

1Co 5:2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.

1Co 5:3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,

1Co 5:4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,

1Co 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

1Co 5:6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?

1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

1Co 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

2Co 2:10 To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ;

It can also deal with the individual matters:

Mat 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

Mat 18:16 But if he will not hear [thee, then] take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

Mat 18:18 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell [it] unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

Paul understands these words:

1 Cor 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

1 Cor 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

1 Cor 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

James:

Jam 5:16 Confess [your] faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

"... Jesus adds to the lesson these words: "Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." After the rules of Christ have been followed out to the letter, the assurance is given that the decisions of the church will be ratified in heaven. This gives a solemn significance to the action of the church. No hasty action from impulse should be taken to cut off names from the church books or to place a member under censure, until the case has been investigated according to the Bible rule in every particular. The word of God shows that it is necessary for church officers to be free from prejudice and selfish motives, and that they should have the sympathy and the love of Jesus. Human minds and hearts, unless wholly sanctified, purified, and refined from partiality and prejudice, are liable to commit grave errors, to misjudge, and to deal unkindly and unjustly with souls that are the purchase of Christ's blood. The decisions of unjust judges will be of no account in the court of heaven. They will not make an innocent man guilty nor change his character in the least before God. As surely as men in responsible positions become lifted up in their own esteem, and act as though they were to lord it over their brethren, they will render decisions which Heaven cannot ratify. ..." - The (Advent) Review and (Sabbath) Herald, April 16, 1895, par. 10.

"... Christ has given rules for the guidance of his church. "If thy brother shall trespass against thee," he said, "go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." {RH, June 13, 1899 par. 9}

Remitting sins or retaining applies to the church in her organized capacity. God has given directions to reprove, rebuke, exhort, with all long-suffering and doctrine. Censure is to be given. This censure is to be removed when the one in error repents and confesses his sin. This solemn commission is given to men who have in them the breath of the Holy Spirit, in whose lives the Christ-life is manifested. They are to be men who have spiritual eyesight, who can discern spiritual things, whose actions in dealing with the members of the church are such as can receive the indorsement of the great Head of the church. If this is not so, in their human judgment they will censure those who should be commended, and sustain those who are controlled by a power from beneath. {RH, June 13, 1899 par. 10} ..." - The (Advent) Review and (Sabbath) Herald, June 13, 1899, par. 9-10.

Another key is the Sanctuary, for in it is the entire plan of redemption:

Psa 77:13 Thy way, O God, is in the sanctuary: who is so great a God as our God?

Another key is Prayer, for "... prayer is the key in the hand of faith to unlock heaven's storehouse ..." - Steps to Christ (1892-3), page 94.2:

Luk_3:21 Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,

Mat_7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

Luk_11:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

The Gospel itself another key, through faith:

Act_14:27 And when they were come, and had gathered the church together, they rehearsed all that God had done with them, and how he had opened the door of faith unto the Gentiles.

1Co_16:9 For a great door and effectual is opened unto me, and there are many adversaries.

2Co_2:12 Furthermore, when I came to Troas to preach Christ's gospel, and a door was opened unto me of the Lord,

Gods promises are also keys, which also open the way to salvation.

Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Even individual verses are keys (Isa. 28:10,13), that unlock other verses, such as the symbols identified for prophecy, or parables, etc.

 

[HeartenedHeart]

We probably would have translated it: The Son JEHOVAH standing on the earth, calling fire down from ELOHIM the Father in heaven.

You would not only subtract from the word of God (JEHOVAH), you would also add to it (Elohiym)?

The Hebrew is plain:

Gen 19:24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;

Gen 19:24 ויהוה המטיר על־סדם ועל־עמרה גפרית ואשׁ מאת יהוה מן־השׁמים׃

Gen 19:24 wayhwäh him'†iyr al-š'dom w'al-ámoräh Gäf'riyt wäësh mëët y'hwäh min-haSHämäyim

It doesn't say "Elohiym". It says "JEHOVAH" in two places, referring to two Persons, in two differing locations (one on earth, the other in Heaven (Even as Our Father which art in Heaven ...)).

 

[HeartenedHeart]

I would like a reference for this statement ("JEHOVAH Elohiym represents all three Persons, Father, Son and Holy Ghost." - HeartenedHeart).

Gen. 1:1-2:1-4 in its context:

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Gen 1:1 בראשׁית ברא אלהים את השׁמים ואת הארץ׃

Gen. 1:1 1:1 B'rëshiyt Bärä élohiym ët haSHämayim w'ët hääretz

Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

Gen 2:4 אלה תולדות השׁמים והארץ בהבראם ביום עשׂות יהוה אלהים ארץ ושׁמים׃

Gen 2:4 2:4 ëLeh tôl'dôt haSHämayim w'hääretz B'hiBär'äm B'yôm ásôt y'hwäh élohiym eretz w'shämäyim

If you read carefully in Genesis 1, you will see three persons, "God":

Father (speaks), JEHOVAH the Ancient of Days:

Gen 1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

Gen 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

Son (creates what the Father wills), JEHOVAH Immanuel:

Gen 1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

Just as John 1:1-3 states:

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Just as Eph. 3:9, Col. 1:16-17, Heb. 1:2, etc., states.

Holy Ghost (witnesses and moves), the Holy Spirit of JEHOVAH:

Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

Gen 1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

Thus as it is written, there is "we", "us", and "our" in Genesis 1 all in reference to Elohiym, which in Genesis 2:4, we see designated as JEHOVAH Elohiym which is exactly what the Fourth Commandment says in regards who created:

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Exo 20:8 זכור את־יום השׁבת לקדשׁו׃
Exo 20:9 שׁשׁת ימים תעבד ועשׂית כל־מלאכתך׃
Exo 20:10 ויום השׁביעי שׁבת ליהוה אלהיך לא־תעשׂה כל־מלאכה אתה ובנך־ובתך עבדך ואמתך ובהמתך וגרך אשׁר בשׁעריך׃
Exo 20:11 כי שׁשׁת־ימים עשׂה יהוה את־השׁמים ואת־הארץ את־הים ואת־כל־אשׁר־בם וינח ביום השׁביעי על־כן ברך יהוה את־יום השׁבת ויקדשׁהו׃

Exo 20:8 zäkhôr et-yôm haSHaBät l'qaD'shô
Exo 20:9 shëshet yämiym Taávod w'äsiytä Käl-m'lakh'Tekhä
Exo 20:10 w'yôm haSH'viyiy shaBät layhwäh éloheykhä lo-taáseh khäl-m'läkhäh aTäh ûvin'khä-ûviTekhä av'D'khä waámät'khä ûv'hem'Tekhä w'gër'khä ásher Bish'äreykhä
Exo 20:11 Kiy shëshet-yämiym äsäh y'hwäh et-haSHämayim w'et-hääretz et-haYäm w'et-Käl-ásher-Bäm waYänach BaYôm haSH'viyiy al-Kën Bërakh' y'hwäh et-yôm haSHaBät way'qaD'shëhû š

There is even more in Gen. 1:1 in the Hebrew with the Aleph Tav, for this is the word that John refers to, the Alpha and Omega.

We see that God the Father orchestrated, which the Son honoured the Father, and the Holy Ghost/Spirit was moved and was breathed and witnessed, and thus all 3, the “trio” are the “Makers” [Ecclesiastes 12:1 HOT & so-called LXX and *], see also Job 33:4; Isaiah 43:7; Romans 11:36; 1 Corinthians 8:6; Hebrews 1:2, 2:10; Revelation 4:11, etc KJB.

* “... First, then, this name, though a plural noun, when used of the one true God is constantly joined with verbs and adjectives in the singular. We are thus prepared, even from the beginning, for the mystery of a plurality in God, who, though he says, “There is no God beside me,” and, “I am God, and there is none else,” says also, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness;” and again, “The man is become like one of us;” and again at Babel, “Go to, let us go down and confound their language;” and again, in the vision granted to the prophet Isaiah, “Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?” And this same mystery, though hidden from an English reader, comes out again and again in many other texts of Holy Scripture. For, “Remember thy Creator in the days of thy youth,” is literally, “Remember thy Creators.” Again, “None saith, Where is God my Maker?” is in the Hebrew, “God my Makers.” So again, “Let Israel rejoice in him that made him,” is, in the Hebrew, “in his Makers.” And so again in the Proverbs, “The knowledge of the Holy Ones is understanding.” So again where the prophet says, “Thy Maker is thy husband,” both words are plural in the Hebrew. Many other passages of Scripture have precisely the same peculiarity. Therefore in heaven “cherubim and seraphim continually do cry, Holy, holy, holy, Lord of hosts,” while on earth, taught by the Spirit of our Lord, we say, “Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.” ... Andrew Jukes, pp. 15-17. London: Longmans, Green & Co., 1892. HBS 217.1 ...” - Handbook for Bible Students, p. 217.1, 1922

Then also see Gen. 19:24, Zec. 3:2 (three JEHOVAH 's (3 Persons) in that verse), etc.

Zec 3:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

Zec 3:2 ויאמר יהוה אל־השׂטן יגער יהוה בך השׂטן ויגער יהוה בך הבחר בירושׁלם הלוא זה אוד מצל מאשׁ׃

Zec 3:2 waYomer y'hwäh el-haSä†än yig'ar y'hwäh B'khä haSä†än w'yig'ar y'hwäh B'khä haBochër Biyrûshäläim hálô zeh ûd muTZäl mëësh

Further more it may be seen:

Hosea 1:4 KJB - And the LORD said unto him, Call his name Jezreel; for yet a little while, and I will avenge the blood of Jezreel upon the house of Jehu, and will cause to cease the kingdom of the house of Israel.
Hosea 1:5 KJB - And it shall come to pass at that day, that I will break the bow of Israel in the valley of Jezreel.
Hosea 1:6 KJB - And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And God said unto him, Call her name Loruhamah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away.
Hosea 1:7 KJB - But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the LORD their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen.

Hosea 1:4 HOT - ויאמר יהוה אליו קרא שׁמו יזרעאל כי־עוד מעט ופקדתי את־דמי יזרעאל על־בית יהוא והשׁבתי ממלכות בית ישׂראל׃
Hosea 1:5 HOT - והיה ביום ההוא ושׁברתי את־קשׁת ישׂראל בעמק יזרעאל׃
Hosea 1:6 HOT - ותהר עוד ותלד בת ויאמר לו קרא שׁמה לא רחמה כי לא אוסיף עוד ארחם את־בית ישׂראל כי־נשׂא אשׂא להם׃
Hosea 1:7 HOT - ואת־בית יהודה ארחם והושׁעתים ביהוה אלהיהם ולא אושׁיעם בקשׁת ובחרב ובמלחמה בסוסים ובפרשׁים׃

The Hebrew OT Translit.:

Hosea 1:4 HOT Translit. - waYomer y'hwäh ëläyw q'rä sh'mô yiz'r'el Kiy-ôd m'a† ûfäqad'Tiy et-D'mëy yiz'r'el al-Bëyt yëhû w'hish'BaTiy mam'l'khût Bëyt yis'räël
Hosea 1:5 HOT Translit. - w'häyäh BaYôm hahû w'shävar'Tiy et-qeshet yis'räël B'ëmeq yiz'r'el
Hosea 1:6 HOT Translit. - waTahar ôd waTëled Bat waYomer lô q'rä sh'mäH lo ruchämäh Kiy lo ôšiyf ôd árachëm et-Bëyt yis'räël Kiy-näso eSä lähem
Hosea 1:7 HOT Translit. - w'et-Bëyt y'hûdäh árachëm w'hôsha'Tiym Bayhwäh élohëyhem w'lo ôshiyëm B'qeshet ûv'cherev ûv'mil'chämäh B'šûšiym ûv'färäshiym

LXX [*so-called] -

Hosea 1:4 LXX* - καὶ εἶπεν κύριος πρὸς αὐτόν Κάλεσον τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ Ιεζραελ, διότι ἔτι μικρὸν καὶ ἐκδικήσω τὸ αἷμα τοῦ Ιεζραελ ἐπὶ τὸν οἶκον Ιου καὶ καταπαύσω βασιλείαν οἴκου Ισραηλ·
Hosea 1:5 LXX* - ἔσται ἐν τῇ ἡμέρᾳ ἐκείνῃ συντρίψω τὸ τόξον τοῦ Ισραηλ ἐν τῇ κοιλάδι τοῦ Ιεζραελ. --
Hosea 1:6 LXX* - καὶ συνέλαβεν ἔτι καὶ ἔτεκεν θυγατέρα. καὶ εἶπεν αὐτῷ Κάλεσον τὸ ὄνομα αὐτῆς Οὐκ--ἠλεημένη, διότι οὐ μὴ προσθήσω ἔτι ἐλεῆσαι τὸν οἶκον τοῦ Ισραηλ, ἀλλ᾿ ἢ ἀντιτασσόμενος ἀντιτάξομαι αὐτοῖς.
Hosea 1:7 LXX* - τοὺς δὲ υἱοὺς Ιουδα ἐλεήσω καὶ σώσω αὐτοὺς ἐν κυρίῳ θεῷ αὐτῶν καὶ οὐ σώσω αὐτοὺς ἐν τόξῳ οὐδὲ ἐν ῥομφαίᾳ οὐδὲ ἐν πολέμῳ οὐδὲ ἐν ἅρμασιν οὐδὲ ἐν ἵπποις οὐδὲ ἐν ἱππεῦσιν. --

How many JEHOVAH are in those verses [4,6,7]?

JEHOVAH said, "... I ["JEHOVAH ... God", vs. 4,6] will save them by JEHOVAH their God [vs. 7], ..."

It is all over the scriptures, even in the NT.

 

[HeartenedHeart]

Note: When Jesus was dying on the cross, he yelled out Eloi, Eloi. Jesus was crying to his Father Eloi, or El, the singular of Elohim, and asking why El had abandoned him. Interesting don't you think?

Of course it is interesting, and proves what I said, for Jesus called upon two Eli (x2; Mat. 27:46), or Eloi (x2, Mar. 15:34, a Greek transliteration - https://www.douglashamp.com/eloi-eloi-lama-sabachthani/).

The words Eli (Eloi) refer to "my God", not a name specifically. The third El, was upon the Cross, Jesus Himself, so the one (Jesus) cries out after the Father (turned His face away) and Holy Ghost (who was withdrawn). For Jesus is the Mighty El (God) of Isa. 9:6, was "alone" (Isa. 63:3) and "by Himself" (Heb. 1:3).

Thus we have the three Mighty Persons, Elohiym, JEHOVAH the Ancient of Days was at the cross (which was why there was thick darkness), and JEHOVAH Immanuel upon the cross, and the Holy Spirit of JEHOVAH there as witness also convicting the heart of the soldier, etc.

Again, notice:

Isa_48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now [1] the Lord GOD, and his [2] Spirit, hath sent [3] me.

Who sent Jesus (JEHOVAH Immanuel)? The Father (JEHOVAH, Ancient of Days) and His Holy Spirit (Holy Spirit of JEHOVAH), as Jesus said:

Joh_6:57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

Luk 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

It would also be Jesus and the Father who later send the Holy Spirit to replace Jesus on earth.

 

[HeartenedHeart]

Like I say, I believe the translators of the OT had a very difficult time keeping track of God the Father and his Son Jesus Christ and their names, especially when the translators believe in 1 God, and the OT clearly indicates 2 Persons.

You would have to demonstrate what the translators knew or didn't know to have foundation for the assertion.

There are 3 Persons/Beings, who are working together in at-one-ment. This is what the Bible means by "one LORD" in Deut. 6:4, as Paul expands upon that in the NT. Just as there are multiple persons in the marriage relationship (Man, Woman & God), but becoming "one" (not in persons), but in heart, effort, etc. Even as the Disciples were to be "one". Even as the books of the Bible are "one". Even as the Gospels are "one".

 

[HeartenedHeart]

There are two, 2 Lord scriptures in the OT. The first is Genesis 19:24 and the other is Psalms 110:1

2 Persons with the same name. What do you think of that? Confusing huh?.

Not at all. My fathers family name is *******, and so then also is my name, *******, and moreso, my father's name is a duplicate of his father's name, for my father is a 'Jr.', but even without that, the Family name is the same for all of us, being *******.

I am going to take a wild guess, a shot in the dark here, in that your family name is the same as your father's family name (normally last name).

Joseph Smith gives birth to Alvin Smith. The family name is "Smith".

That is why the Father has other designations in scripture, such as JEHOVAH, the Ancient of Days, and Jesus is called JEHOVAH Immanuel.

 

[HeartenedHeart]

Especially that 40 days that he was on the earth after the resurrection. Have any of the apostles written down what he said, other than go ye into all the world and preach and baptize, you know the great commission.

Yes:

Joh 21:1 After these things Jesus shewed himself again to the disciples at the sea of Tiberias; and on this wise shewed he himself.

Joh 21:22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.

Then continue with context in between.

Also see:

Luk 24:50 And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them.

Act 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

Act 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Jesus met with the disciples on the Road to Emmaus that third day, the day of the resurrection, and also that night, being the second day of the week, and also 8 days later in the upper room:

Joh 20:26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.

Joh 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Joh 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Other than that not a lot, so he pretty much taught his apostles, but not in the open, and we surely do not have these words for our benefit.

Jesus gave everything needful for salvation in those 3 1/2 years in the open:

Joh_18:20 Jesus answered him, I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing.

I wonder what he told the apostles?

Read the previous citations, and also then read "Revelation" and "1-2 Peter", and "1-3 John"

You do realize that the Gospels were all written after Jesus ascended, including Acts, the Epistles, etc? If Jesus wanted any more written, than what was written, the Holy Ghost would have brought it to mind, and they would have written it.

In fact what do we even know he did in those 40 days after his resurrection and before his ascension?

Yes, see citations above.

Tell me what you know?

Ok, read those previous citations.

 

[HeartenedHeart]

Generally speaking, an outstretched hand will reach more people than a closed fist.

I have already discussed 'closed-doors' with Jane. She refuses truth presented to her. Notice, I didn't say she refuted (or even bothered to try) what I shared with her, I said she refused it. If she has anything further to "chat" about, let it be done openly. Someone might think that cold, but it was she that closed the earlier door.

 

[BigDaddy4]

John 21:25 King James Version (KJV)
25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

Good chapter, wish we knew all that Jesus said and did.

Perhaps he also gave his Apostles "the talk" about where "spiritual babies" come from...

 

[Peter1000]

Elohim has never been God's name.

So who is Elohim in the first chapter of Genesis?

 

[Peter1000]

You would not only subtract from the word of God (JEHOVAH), you would also add to it (Elohiym)?

The Hebrew is plain:

Gen 19:24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;

Gen 19:24 ויהוה המטיר על־סדם ועל־עמרה גפרית ואשׁ מאת יהוה מן־השׁמים׃

Gen 19:24 wayhwäh him'†iyr al-š'dom w'al-ámoräh Gäf'riyt wäësh mëët y'hwäh min-haSHämäyim

It doesn't say "Elohiym". It says "JEHOVAH" in two places, referring to two Persons, in two differing locations (one on earth, the other in Heaven (Even as Our Father which art in Heaven ...)).

Well, I have always used this scripture to prove that God the Father and God the Son are 2 distinct and separate Persons. This scriptures supports that belief. 2 Persons, one on earth, the other in heaven, and, OK, they both have the same name. That is odd, but if you insist.

JS in his first hand written notes about his first encounter with God and Jesus, said the same thing. JS says, I was filled with the spirit of god and the <Lord>opened the heavens upon me and I saw the Lord.
Scholars have analyzed this statement and have concluded that since there are 2 scriptures in the OT that refers to 2 Lords as separate Persons, with the same name, this is what JS was referring to also.

So thank you for Genesis 19:24. The other 2 Lord scripture is Psalms 110:1.

 

[Peter1000]

Perhaps he also gave his Apostles "the talk" about where "spiritual babies" come from...

Perhaps he did give his apostles more of the "meat" of the gospel.

What we do know is that Paul wanted to teach his members of the church in Corinth the "meat" of the gospel, for as yet they had only received the "milk". And this is what he said:
1 Corinthians 3:2 King James Version (KJV)
2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

Can you imagine that there is more to give this people about the gospel, yet they would not receive it?
Could it have been about our pre-earth spirit home in heaven? Maybe.

Remember Jesus himself had a similar experience as he tried to teach his disciples that he was the bread of life. Look what many disciples did:
John 6:53-60 King James Version (KJV)
53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.
57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.
60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?

This is a hard saying they said, and they turned and walked with Jesus no more. Kind of like the Corinthians not receiving the "meat" from Paul.

So during that 40 days, there was a lot of things that the apostles learned that we know not of because we the people would not have received it then, and probably not even today.

 

[Peter1000]

Yes:

Joh 21:1 After these things Jesus shewed himself again to the disciples at the sea of Tiberias; and on this wise shewed he himself.

Joh 21:22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.

Then continue with context in between.

Also see:

Luk 24:50 And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them.

Act 1:4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

Act 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Jesus met with the disciples on the Road to Emmaus that third day, the day of the resurrection, and also that night, being the second day of the week, and also 8 days later in the upper room:

Joh 20:26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.

Joh 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Joh 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Jesus gave everything needful for salvation in those 3 1/2 years in the open:

Joh_18:20 Jesus answered him, I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing.

Read the previous citations, and also then read "Revelation" and "1-2 Peter", and "1-3 John"

You do realize that the Gospels were all written after Jesus ascended, including Acts, the Epistles, etc? If Jesus wanted any more written, than what was written, the Holy Ghost would have brought it to mind, and they would have written it.

Yes, see citations above.

Ok, read those previous citations.

Ok, Jesus appeared to them
Jesus blessed them
Told them to not leave Jerusalem until they received the HS.
Told them to preach and baptize the world
Jesus told them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
Jesus showed them his flesh body and had an experience with Thomas.
Jesus appeared to John and gave him information, and Peter.

Was there any other words that Jesus told his disciples in the 40 days between his resurrection and his ascension?

 

[Peter1000]

Not at all. My fathers family name is *******, and so then also is my name, *******, and moreso, my father's name is a duplicate of his father's name, for my father is a 'Jr.', but even without that, the Family name is the same for all of us, being *******.

I am going to take a wild guess, a shot in the dark here, in that your family name is the same as your father's family name (normally last name).

Joseph Smith gives birth to Alvin Smith. The family name is "Smith".

That is why the Father has other designations in scripture, such as JEHOVAH, the Ancient of Days, and Jesus is called JEHOVAH Immanuel.

OK, that is true. It would be a little less confusing if it had said Jehovah the son, on the earth, and Jehovah the Father sending fireballs from heaven. Something to distinguish to 2 Lords.

 

[Peter1000]

You would have to demonstrate what the translators knew or didn't know to have foundation for the assertion.

There are 3 Persons/Beings, who are working together in at-one-ment. This is what the Bible means by "one LORD" in Deut. 6:4, as Paul expands upon that in the NT. Just as there are multiple persons in the marriage relationship (Man, Woman & God), but becoming "one" (not in persons), but in heart, effort, etc. Even as the Disciples were to be "one". Even as the books of the Bible are "one". Even as the Gospels are "one".

You have said the truth here. Not in persons, but in heart, or purpose. 3 Persons, united in one heart and one purpose.

 

[BigDaddy4]

Perhaps he did give his apostles more of the "meat" of the gospel.

Well, he already did in John Chapters 4, 6.

Can you imagine that there is more to give this people about the gospel, yet they would not receive it?

Paul supplied more in Hebrews 5, 6.

Could it have been about our pre-earth spirit home in heaven? Maybe.

Absolutely not. A fabrication of Joseph Smith's imagination is not reality.

So during that 40 days, there was a lot of things that the apostles learned that we know not of because we the people would not have received it then, and probably not even today.

What we are meant to know has been recorded for us. You can't make up imaginary stories of pre-earth existence or multiple levels of heaven just because you don't understand what has been given. That's the milk of the gospel that you don't understand. What has been given is all that is needed.

 

[Peter1000]

Well, he already did in John Chapters 4, 6.

I might agree with you, but many years after this knowledge was given to the people by Jesus, Paul said there was 'meat' that the people would not receive. So apparently not.

Paul supplied more in Hebrews 5, 6.

Are you 100% sure this is the 'meat' Paul was talking about to the Corinthians?

Absolutely not. A fabrication of Joseph Smith's imagination is not reality.

So you do not believe that God is the Father of our spirits? You do not believe that you even have a 'spirit' in your body? You do not believe in a 'spirit paradise' or a 'spirit prison' after we die and our eternal 'spirit' lives on?

What we are meant to know has been recorded for us. You can't make up imaginary stories of pre-earth existence or multiple levels of heaven just because you don't understand what has been given. That's the milk of the gospel that you don't understand. What has been given is all that is needed.

Well apparently what Paul wanted the Corinthians to know, they would not receive, so how do we know that the 'meat' of the gospel was preached? We know the 'milk' of the gospel was preached, but we do not know that the 'meat' was. How do you know that Paul talking about Melchizedek was 'meat', since it is pretty simple(closer to 'milk' than 'meat'). Jesus is a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.

Again, good chapters to read, but is it 'meat', I don't think so.