LDS Celestial Marriage...100% false.

[He is the way]

Didn't Christ say

In heaven there is NO marriage

Didn't He say this when asked about the brothers who married the same wife after on died the next took her?

We do not believe there is marriage in heaven.

 

[He is the way]

Of course you don't!! But when you don't buy into this "the bible has been corrupted" baloney---the only one who is out of tune with the gospel is JS.

Okay so you believe the NWT is correct then?

 

[mmksparbud]

Okay so you believe the NWT is correct then?

The bible--in it's original language, with translations as close to it as possible.

 

[He is the way]

The bible--in it's original language, with translations as close to it as possible.

So which Bible is that? There are several translations of the Bible. There is the KJV, NWT, NIV, RSV, NAB, etc. Or do you mean the Hebrew and Greek Bibles?

 

[Rescued One]

We do not believe there is marriage in heaven.

It's dishonest to suggest that Heavenly Father and one of his wives had their children out of wedlock!

 

[Rescued One]

I see nothing incorrect about baptism or any of Joseph Smith's translation. I do however see some of the Bible translations out of tune with the gospel.

I know you can't see it, but I'm praying for you.

 

[HeartenedHeart]

We do not believe there is marriage in heaven.

Wait a minute, if you would please. Does not the LDS doctrine teach that (LDS) 'Jehovah' has at least one (unnamed) wife, if not many more than that? Is not the (LDS) 'Jehovah' married?

Or are you saying that 'marriage' (the act) does not take place in Heaven, but in another worldly (this earth or another world) location prior, previous to it and this bond of union remains into Heaven once attained?

 

[Rescued One]

Wait a minute, if you would please. Does not the LDS doctrine teach that (LDS) 'Jehovah' has at least one (unnamed) wife, if not many more than that? Is not the (LDS) 'Jehovah' married?

Or are you saying that 'marriage' (the act) does not take place in Heaven, but in another worldly (this earth or another world) location prior, previous to it and this bond of union remains into Heaven once attained?

All marriages for time and eternity must be performed on earth in one of their temples.

Doctrine and Covenants 132
15 Therefore, if a man marry him a wife in the world, and he marry her not by me nor by my word, and he covenant with her so long as he is in the world and she with him, their covenant and marriage are not of force when they are dead, and when they are out of the world; therefore, they are not bound by any law when they are out of the world.
16 Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven, which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.
17 For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever.
18 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that covenant is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God.
19 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant, and it is sealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of promise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the keys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit thrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then shall it be written in the Lamb’s Book of Life, that he shall commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever.
20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.
21 Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my law ye cannot attain to this glory.

Elohim/Heavenly Father is the supreme god.

Jehovah/Jesus is the second god. He has to have a wife if he is in the Church of the Firstborn with the supreme god.

Who knows about their holy ghost? No one, I guess.

 

[HeartenedHeart]

Elohim/Heavenly Father is the supreme god.

Jehovah/Jesus is the second god. He has to have a wife if he is in the Church of the Firstborn with the supreme god.

Who knows about their holy ghost? No one, I guess.

Wait a minute. LDS call the Father 'Elohim'? That's a (Hebrew true plural, 3 or greater) plural word.

Jehovah is the name of God in scripture, and there are at least two Persons named this:

Gen 19:24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;

Gen 19:24 ויהוה המטיר על־סדם ועל־עמרה גפרית ואשׁ מאת יהוה מן־השׁמים׃

Gen 19:24 wayhwäh him'†iyr al-š'dom w'al-ámoräh Gäf'riyt wäësh mëët y'hwäh min-haSHämäyim

The Son is upon the earth calling the 'fire of God' (Holy Ghost symbolized here) from the Father out of Heaven, and both the Persons of the Son and Father are designated as JEHOVAH.

JEHOVAH Elohiym represents all three Persons, Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

Elohiym has a range of meaning (strong ones, angels, etc), but in that form is always plural in meaning. El is singular. There is also a dual plural,, but Elohiym is true plural (3 or more).

 

[mmksparbud]

So which Bible is that? There are several translations of the Bible. There is the KJV, NWT, NIV, RSV, NAB, etc. Or do you mean the Hebrew and Greek Bibles?

I use the KJV, and I also check several other translations, if there is a question I go back to the Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic which ever I use I do not open it without prayer and asking for the Holy Spirit to guide me to His truth and not my own.

 

[Peter1000]

So -- all those spirit children were up there somewhere before humans came into existence.

Let's talk about all those spirit children another way.

In Genesis 1:26-27 it says God said, let US create man in our image and in our likeness and so he did, male and female created he them.
1) where did God create man, male and female?
2) how many male and female did God create at this time?

Then we read in Genesis 2:5 that there was not a man on the earth yet?
1) wait a minute, did I not read in Geneses 1:26-27 that God created man, male and female already?
a) again, if there is no man on the earth, where did God create man, male and female in Gen. 1?

Then we read in Genesis 2:7 that God created a man, Adam out of the dust of the ground?
1) Wait a minute, who were the male and female created in Gen. 1:26-27? Where were they created, because it was certainly not on earth? How many of them were created?

The Church of Jesus Christ can answer those questions. In Genesis 1, God/Elohim + others created man, male and female in heaven before they were naturally created on earth in Genesis 2. Genesis 2:5 confirms that by letting us know that after the creation in 1, there was no man on the earth yet. So where did the creation in Gen. 1 take place: in heaven.
So where did the creation of Adam and Eve in Gen. 2 take place: on earth.
So who created Adam and Eve on earth. As it says in Genesis 2:4? It was the "Lord God", but not God as in Genesis 1. The "Lord God" is Yahweh or Jehovah which eventually was incarnated into the flesh body of Jesus. Who we know created all things (naturally).

It is unknown how long it was between the spirit creation in heaven and the natural creation on earth. Long enough for Jesus to show God that he too remained sinless from the beginning, and for God the Father to call him God the Son.
(see Hebrews 1:8-10, Psalms 110:1)

Man, male and female was created in heaven in a spirit body, and over thousands of years, these spirit bodies have systematically been placed into flesh bodies on earth. Adam was the first man to receive his spirit body into his flesh body. Eve was the first female to receive her spirit body into her flesh body.

You and I had to wait about 6,000 years for our spirit bodies to be placed in our flesh bodies.

Able was the first person to die on the earth. He was the first to experience his spirit body leaving his flesh body and going into the "spirit dwelling place". By this time there are billions of spirit bodies in the "spirit dwelling place". (I could tell you a lot more about what happens in the "spirit dwelling place", but not the time. Just to say, they are all awaiting the time of the resurrection when the spirit body and the flesh body will be reunited and be inseparable for eternity. That is why you will be immortal, because your eternal spirit body that gives life to your flesh body will never again be separated, and you will live forever, hopefully living with God and Jesus in their kingdom.

-why would they have had to become spirit children if they were already some sort of intelligence?

Spirit is matter, just refined matter. Intelligence is something different - we know very little about our intelligence. In order for the intelligence to be something, it needed to be housed in the spirit that is something with mass. I know that sounds odd, but again, we know very little at this point about the make up of this intelligence/or the mind and will of man.

So the first step toward being like God was for God to take this uncreated, eternal intelligence (whatever it is) and place it in our uncreated, eternal spirit, which now, together comprise an independent entity with a mind and will and a body of refined matter. Now able to communicate, and to act upon and be acted upon. It is this acting upon and being acted upon that increases the already existing intelligence that is necessary for us to grow and become something greater than we are. God knows this process and gives us every opportunity to move forward, hoping that we will eventually become just like he is and live with him as he is.

This is the whole purpose of God: to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. It is a long process, and all along the way man has to make choices, and many are lost and disqualify themselves from reaching the ultimate goal. But many will keep making the right choices, and qualifying themselves for the highest glory possible, life with God and Jesus.

The first choice was in the pre-earth life between following Jesus and following lucifer. It is said in
Jude 1:6 that many kept not their first estate(actually 1/3 of the spirit children of God) but chose to follow lucifer and immediately disqualified themselves for even mortality, and not chance for eternal life. You and I did keep our first estate, and we are now in our second estate. If we choose Jesus again in this estate, where we are fallen outside the presence of God and in the presence of satan and his followers, we will receive eternal life in an incredible, perfect, highly mobile body of flesh and bone and spirit just like God and Jesus, and will be doing the same kinds of things that they do. The ultimate goal.

 

[Peter1000]

Didn't Christ say

In heaven there is NO marriage

Didn't He say this when asked about the brothers who married the same wife after on died the next took her?

No, that is not what he said.

 

[mmksparbud]

et's talk about all those spirit children another way.

In Genesis 1:26-27 it says God said, let US create man in our image and in our likeness and so he did, male and female created he them.
1) where did God create man, male and female?
2) how many male and female did God create at this time?

Then we read in Genesis 2:5 that there was not a man on the earth yet?
1) wait a minute, did I not read in Geneses 1:26-27 that God created man, male and female already?
a) again, if there is no man on the earth, where did God create man, male and female in Gen. 1?

Then we read in Genesis 2:7 that God created a man, Adam out of the dust of the ground?
1) Wait a minute, who were the male and female created in Gen. 1:26-27? Where were they created, because it was certainly not on earth? How many of them were created?

Again---for we have discussed this before. Gen. 2 is not a different creation from Gen 1---it is Gen 1 but with added details--Gen 1 is in chronological order--Gen 2 is not. This is a common way of writing throughout the bible---Exodus has several instances of this. That does not mean there was more than one Exodus.
When there was no man is simply the time from the creation of the herbs and plants and man. There was one man and one woman created. Adam and Eve--period.
All the rest of your post is ---umm---not applicable to the stated word of God. It the wild conjecture of one young man. There is nothing vague about any if this! God created Adam and Eve on day 6. One man, one woman, on this earth.

 

[He is the way]

It's dishonest to suggest that Heavenly Father and one of his wives had their children out of wedlock!

We also believe there is no baptism in heaven.

 

[Peter1000]

Again---for we have discussed this before. Gen. 2 is not a different creation from Gen 1---it is Gen 1 but with added details--Gen 1 is in chronological order--Gen 2 is not. This is a common way of writing throughout the bible---Exodus has several instances of this. That does not mean there was more than one Exodus.
When there was no man is simply the time from the creation of the herbs and plants and man. There was one man and one woman created. Adam and Eve--period.
All the rest of your post is ---umm---not applicable to the stated word of God. It the wild conjecture of one young man. There is nothing vague about any if this! God created Adam and Eve on day 6. One man, one woman, on this earth.

Well, we will have to agree to disagree. But I want you to write down or copy my posts to you on the pre-earth life, and when someone asks you what the Mormons believe, you give them what I said word for word, and not what you have said I said. You are far away from the truth of what I said. Is that a deal?

 

[He is the way]

Wait a minute, if you would please. Does not the LDS doctrine teach that (LDS) 'Jehovah' has at least one (unnamed) wife, if not many more than that? Is not the (LDS) 'Jehovah' married?

Or are you saying that 'marriage' (the act) does not take place in Heaven, but in another worldly (this earth or another world) location prior, previous to it and this bond of union remains into Heaven once attained?

You are correct, marriages and sealings (bindings) are done on earth, not in heaven.

 

[mmksparbud]

We also believe there is no baptism in heaven.

Well, of course not! There is no need of it.

 

[He is the way]

I use the KJV, and I also check several other translations, if there is a question I go back to the Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic which ever I use I do not open it without prayer and asking for the Holy Spirit to guide me to His truth and not my own.

That is awesome, I do much the same thing. I also rely on the JST.

 

[mmksparbud]

Well, we will have to agree to disagree. But I want you to write down or copy my posts to you on the pre-earth life, and when someone asks you what the Mormons believe, you give them what I said word for word, and not what you have said I said. You are far away from the truth of what I said. Is that a deal?

You may have worded it differently, however, what it boils down to is what I said. I know you do not agree with what the bible says and that the writings of JS take preeminence over it.

 

[Peter1000]

Wait a minute. LDS call the Father 'Elohim'? That's a (Hebrew true plural, 3 or greater) plural word.

Jehovah is the name of God in scripture, and there are at least two Persons named this:

Gen 19:24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;

Gen 19:24 ויהוה המטיר על־סדם ועל־עמרה גפרית ואשׁ מאת יהוה מן־השׁמים׃

Gen 19:24 wayhwäh him'†iyr al-š'dom w'al-ámoräh Gäf'riyt wäësh mëët y'hwäh min-haSHämäyim

The Son is upon the earth calling the 'fire of God' (Holy Ghost symbolized here) from the Father out of Heaven, and both the Persons of the Son and Father are designated as JEHOVAH.

JEHOVAH Elohiym represents all three Persons, Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

Elohiym has a range of meaning (strong ones, angels, etc), but in that form is always plural in meaning. El is singular. There is also a dual plural,, but Elohiym is true plural (3 or more).

If there is anything more misunderstood in the OT, it is the different names of God, starting with Elohim and Yahweh in the first 2 chapters of Genesis. The Church of Jesus Christ has an interpretation of who Elohim and Yahweh and all of the other names of God are. Our interpretation is as foundational and proper as any church or scholar of the bilble that exists. So we stand by our interpretation and feel like what we believe answers the difficult questions with regard to this on-going problem of the names of God.