Celebrating the Feasts

[visionary]

Vis, you don't think any Jews are "living in the light" now?

I am not saying that no jew is not living in the light, for MJ movement owes it debt of gratitude to those Jews who have seen the light and are bringing light to the people in its proper setting. What I am saying is that I beleive this light will continue to spread, and ignite/flash in Jerusalem and from there be a beam for all the world to see.

 

[Mikhail]

I was over at my friends house today and asked him about this.

He said that he does the Passover the way it was commanded to the mixed multitude before the Law was given to Israel at Sinai.

He has a bunch of people over and slaughters a Lamb, drains the blood, put some of the blood on the doorposts of his house, then roasts it and everyone eats it before morning.

He says it has nothing to do with salvation.

What does your friend say about the scripture that commands that you are not to do this within your own gates but only at the temple.

I had this dicussion with a friend because he trys to force a literalist view of certain scriptures on me in order to trip me up on my Torah Observant perspective.

Pre Law, that is craziness, that was to prevent the Angel of Death that went through the land which is what I said to my friend unless you jave a "now word" that the angel of death is coming again and God has given you another "Now Word" that this is what you need to do it makes not sense to do this.

Karaite Messianic? more labels, that have several definitions depending on who you talk too.

Shabbat Shalom,
Mikhail

 

[Henaynei]

I think she was talking on the mass level - for even those who are "living in the light" and with Torah have to struggle to be observant with the resistance of the larger community and without the Temple.....i.e.

even taharat mishpocha is nearly impossible in many areas due to the inaccessability of a kosher place to t'villah and the oft insurrmountable barriers to acquiring kosher meats and other foods, to name just 2..... some may say small, or insignificant or "rabbinic" to some or all of these - but when the larger portion of the Jewish community sees Truth and submits to Him we will see a glory only deamt of in scripture when His people return to Him and to His Torah

 

[Sephania]

It is wonderful to me to see the size of the space designated for Kosher for Passover foods at my local market. It now takes up a 50ft isle along with more temporary shelving brought in. I have seen it get bigger each year and its not just the popuation growing, its more returning to HaShems word, but yes it is difficult< I long ofr an American Kibbutz, but many aren't ready for communal living. I would like to be where it was as in the first congregation in Jerusalem, where they had everything in common and everyone was taken care of.

 

[Tishri1]

No, GOd is not a respector of persons, but the jews have known the laws of God for years and years, and when the light comes upon them, they will be living the law in the light, such as we have not seen among the gentiles. It will all be to the glory of God.

Romans 11:15 15 For if their rejection be the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?

 

[Shimshon]

And the Apostles were surely still doing the Passover as long as they were alive. It seems like they would have mentioned a change if it had been instituted upon Yeshua's sacrifice.

I realize it sounds culturally repulsive to envion sacrificing an animal in modern times...but really it was also what everyone had for supper on this night. Families came from all over Israel and the world to camp out on the outskirts of Jerusalem. They brought the Lamb to the priest who made sure it was a spotless animal, then made sure all the blood was drained.

Then they roasted it at their tent and everyone ate it before morning??? Who knows what happens next?



Did they change it much once the Temple was gone?

15 But when God, who picked me out before I was born and called me by his grace, chose 16 to reveal his Son to me, so that I might announce him to the Gentiles, I did not consult anyone; 17 and I did not go up to Yerushalayim to see those who were emissaries before me. Instead, I immediately went off to Arabia and afterwards returned to Dammesek. 18 Not until three years later did I go up to Yerushalayim to make Kefa's acquaintance, and I stayed with him for two weeks, 19 but I did not see any of the other emissaries except Ya'akov the Lord's brother.

1 Then after fourteen years I again went up to Yerushalayim, this time with Bar-Nabba; and I took with me Titus. 2 I went up in obedience to a revelation,

Seems Shaul did not according to his own accounting.

No, GOd is not a respector of persons, but the jews have known the laws of God for years and years, and when the light comes upon them, they will be living the law in the light, such as we have not seen among the gentiles. It will all be to the glory of God.

Yes YHVH chose Avraham to grow his seed in. It grew into an awesome tree and it produced fruit. But many are adorning themselves in and eating the leaves instead of the fruit that is pouring out of it.

Living the law in the light? Living in the shadows while the light is shining upon them? How is that possible? To be old wineskines holding new wine? To be an old clothe held together by a new patch? Even Shaul said the Torah was given UNTIL the coming of the seed. That it was a custodian UNTIL the seed came and now we are not under the custodian. He related those who were UNDER the law to the slave woman Hagar, those who received Torah at Mt. Sinai who observe it in Yerushalayim. And us to the free woman, the heavenly Yerushalayim. We are Children of the Promise

25 Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia; she corresponds to the present Yerushalayim, for she serves as a slave along with her children. 26 But the Yerushalayim above is free, and she is our mother; 27 for the Tanakh says, "Rejoice, you barren woman who does not bear children! Break forth and shout, you who are not in labor! For the deserted wife will have more children than the one whose husband is with her!"i 28 You, brothers, like Yitz'chak, are children referred to in a promise of God. 29 But just as then the one born according to limited human capability persecuted the one born through the Spirit's supernatural power, so it is now. 30 Nevertheless, what does the Tanakh say? "Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for by no means will the son of the slave woman inherit along with the son of the free woman!" 31 So, brothers, we are children not of the slave woman, but of the free woman.

Again Yod, No change implied after the reserection? This is why they wanted to kill Shaul. This is what brought all his scars. The Good News! We are free in union with Yeshua.

than to not keep the feasts and miss out on all the hidden manna contained within

Again, from the aboved verses why would we "keep" them in the old pattern and shadow when for one we can't because Yeshua took the Temple and it's Torah observances away by COMPLETING it's function. He was the seed it is finished and we can move forward from here.

This is what the Jews were doing and many still. Keeping the feasts and missing out on the hidden manna contained within, Yeshua. I do not see by scripture how we are to keep them in the way "mainstream" MJ has put forth anylonger. In shadow AND in light. In old AND in new.

However before you consider this Hebrew a completed antisemite. Know that I do believe one should be completely familiar and learned in the meaning of the "old" covenant and Mo'edim so as to know the fulfillment and it's purpose. Yes. It was good and for a reason. It helped bring about a people and Yeshua to it's goal. But Torah is not the goal. Yeshua is. Love is. There is no Torah against them. Love YHVH with all your being and your neighbor as yourself. And these words, my words shall BE ON YOUR HEART. Be a light to the world, tell them what Yeshua did for us. Tell them this Good New that the Messiah of the Hebrews has come to save the world. Tell them how he did it. We know because Yeshua gave us the Ruakh, and he has reminded us and founded us in all the Truth. He keeps us on the path and in his will.

 

[visionary]

15 But when God, who picked me out before I was born and called me by his grace, chose 16 to reveal his Son to me, so that I might announce him to the Gentiles, I did not consult anyone; 17 and I did not go up to Yerushalayim to see those who were emissaries before me. Instead, I immediately went off to Arabia and afterwards returned to Dammesek. 18 Not until three years later did I go up to Yerushalayim to make Kefa's acquaintance, and I stayed with him for two weeks, 19 but I did not see any of the other emissaries except Ya'akov the Lord's brother.

1 Then after fourteen years I again went up to Yerushalayim, this time with Bar-Nabba; and I took with me Titus. 2 I went up in obedience to a revelation,

Seems Shaul did not according to his own accounting.


Yes YHVH chose Avraham to grow his seed in. It grew into an awesome tree and it produced fruit. But many are adorning themselves in and eating the leaves instead of the fruit that is pouring out of it.

Living the law in the light? Living in the shadows while the light is shining upon them? How is that possible? To be old wineskines holding new wine? To be an old clothe held together by a new patch? Even Shaul said the Torah was given UNTIL the coming of the seed. That it was a custodian UNTIL the seed came and now we are not under the custodian. He related those who were UNDER the law to the slave woman Hagar, those who received Torah at Mt. Sinai who observe it in Yerushalayim. And us to the free woman, the heavenly Yerushalayim. We are Children of the Promise

Again Yod, No change implied after the reserection? This is why they wanted to kill Shaul. This is what brought all his scars. The Good News! We are free in union with Yeshua.



Again, from the aboved verses why would we "keep" them in the old pattern and shadow when for one we can't because Yeshua took the Temple and it's Torah observances away by COMPLETING it's function. He was the seed it is finished and we can move forward from here.

This is what the Jews were doing and many still. Keeping the feasts and missing out on the hidden manna contained within, Yeshua. I do not see by scripture how we are to keep them in the way "mainstream" MJ has put forth anylonger. In shadow AND in light. In old AND in new.

However before you consider this Hebrew a completed antisemite. Know that I do believe one should be completely familiar and learned in the meaning of the "old" covenant and Mo'edim so as to know the fulfillment and it's purpose. Yes. It was good and for a reason. It helped bring about a people and Yeshua to it's goal. But Torah is not the goal. Yeshua is. Love is. There is no Torah against them. Love YHVH with all your being and your neighbor as yourself. And these words, my words shall BE ON YOUR HEART. Be a light to the world, tell them what Yeshua did for us. Tell them this Good New that the Messiah of the Hebrews has come to save the world. Tell them how he did it. We know because Yeshua gave us the Ruakh, and he has reminded us and founded us in all the Truth. He keeps us on the path and in his will.

By the very fact, that we keep the feasts with the knowlege of Yeshua in them, changes them from old to new. By the very fact, that our sacrifice is done for us in Yeshua changes that also. If in everything we do is in honor of Yeshua, then it is new and not the old.

 

[yod]

Very good answers, shimshon.

I owe you an apology and it should be public. You are either not the same person you were before your last child was born, or I completely misunderstood you. My guess is the latter.

When I first jumped back on this forum after a year's absence, it was in a thread where it seemed like you were saying that anyone who wasn't torah-observant was not a believer...and that phrase means different things to different people but I assumed (yes, Zemirah, I assumed) that you were taking a hyper-literal approach to torah-observance.

I'm still not sure that I understand you completely but you don't even seem like the same person in the last few threads I've read. Obviously I am confused?!?!

I will bring those points up with my friend.

Shalom

 

[yod]

Mikhail:

What does your friend say about the scripture that commands that you are not to do this within your own gates but only at the temple.

I had this dicussion with a friend because he trys to force a literalist view of certain scriptures on me in order to trip me up on my Torah Observant perspective.

He says the Law was added because they refused this Covenant...but that this is the Covenant we have been given (again) in this "New" Covenant age

Pre Law, that is craziness, that was to prevent the Angel of Death that went through the land which is what I said to my friend unless you jave a "now word" that the angel of death is coming again and God has given you another "Now Word" that this is what you need to do it makes not sense to do this.

I think you are probably right. This is something that I've never thought of before and I'm having an arguement with myself about it. I really like to argue and no one here stays up late enough...

Karaite Messianic? more labels, that have several definitions depending on who you talk too.

Yeah, but what do you do?

did you get to see your children?

 

[Shimshon]

By the very fact, that we keep the feasts with the knowlege of Yeshua in them, changes them from old to new. By the very fact, that our sacrifice is done for us in Yeshua changes that also. If in everything we do is in honor of Yeshua, then it is new and not the old.

That is a wonderful statement visionary. But I see too many, even here who are 'striving' to accomplish the old pattern. Trying to hold the shadow up to the light and then wonder why the shadows are disappearing before their eyes EVERY time they hold them up to the light. As COTMH points out, you can't 'keep' the feasts like in days of old because for one, Yeshua put an end to the patterns and shadows and brought Light into the world. He torn down the Temple and broke the covenant. Because his children were misusing it. So he took the instructions he gave us then, that would in no way nullify the promise given before it, and took them away from us because we were misusing them. He said it would happen as well. He prophecied it.

Like I would with my son if he misused the car I taught him how to use so he could mature in responsibility. Then when I reached his heart and he learned how to use the family car, I'd give him a dragster. Because now he knows how to use it. But is the dragster the same old car I taught him in? No. That was given as a tool to help him learn how to travel faster than light. And how could he travel as fast as light if he's driving the old family car I had him learn in?

Yeshua came and gave us the Ruakh, because his children were fooling around with it and not doing what he instructed them to do with it. He gave us the Torah of the Spirit. Because the Jews were misusing the Torah of Moshe. And all this was brought about by YHVH to accomplish his will. So that not only a "people" could be his children, but the world, all mankind.

 

[visionary]

The feasts that had their fulfillment in Yeshua, they are a memorial which we will always keep, in memorial format. Those feasts that are still shadows, we rehearsel looking forward to their day when they come true.

 

[Shimshon]

I owe you an apology and it should be public. You are either not the same person you were before your last child was born, or I completely misunderstood you. My guess is the latter.

I will humbly accept your apology Yod, todah. And if I have ever offended you, I too am sorry. Though I don't think that's is the case. I think your one tough shaygets

Yod, Ahavah came into my life. This time in person.

When I first jumped back on this forum after a year's absence, it was in a thread where it seemed like you were saying that anyone who wasn't torah-observant was not a believer...and that phrase means different things to different people but I assumed (yes, Zemirah, I assumed) that you were taking a hyper-literal approach to torah-observance.

Yes, I was. I had began to be swept away in the Torah Observant sect of this movement. The shul I was attending last year was one such group who slowly immersed me into understanding the application of the Torah of Moshe in todays life. I rocked back and fourth with "legalism" and you have just been witness to the latest bout with this demon. "legalism" not Torah "Observers". Achi I was sooo being "made jealous" by those who were "More Jewish" than I. And they wern't even blood Jews. Only the cohan was, not even the Rabbi. But that is of no matter anyway. What they are or were makes no difference to me.

Malakha my wife was first to alert to it. By the statement made by the Rabbinite, that they desire to be more "Jewish" than the Jew so as to make them jealous and want to accept Yeshua. This shul was a shul that many here would love. It's appreciation and love for Torah is outstanding, in word. But actions are usually another story. And i'm not here to air dirty laundry.

I'm still not sure that I understand you completely but you don't even seem like the same person in the last few threads I've read. Obviously I am confused?!?!

I'm not the same person Yod. The Ruakh touched my heart again. Drew me back to the path. I believe I mentioned this in a post just before I left. That Yeshua told me just before Ahavah was born to "read it again". I said, WHAT!? I have been reading your words for over 15yrs and you want me to 'read it again'? I laughed because it's something I tell my son over and over. Do it again. So this time you might get it right. So when I realized Yeshua was telling me to 'read it again' my immediate response was laughter. Because my son instantly came into my mind, and I knew I was being 'disciplined'. LOL Well, I read it again. And LOOKY what I FOUND!!!. lol This is the "New" man you are seeing Yod. The 'old' one come back to LIFE. Back to the Torah Yeshua gave.

And Zayit, I know this places us alittle farther apart than before. But know this achoti, I sure would feel sad if you distanced yourself from me now that I have revealed my heart, (again) here. I see our differences more as a way to grow together than a way to seperate each other. What say you?

 

[Shimshon]

The feasts that had their fulfillment in Yeshua, they are a memorial which we will always keep, in memorial format. Those feasts that are still shadows, we rehearsel looking forward to their day when they come true.

Memorial sure, rehearse sure, look forward to the day they come about definitly. But are we going to build again what Yeshua torn down? He took the Temple and the land. Now the land is restored, but to "OLD" covenant followers. Not Yeshua believers. NOT those who see Yeshua as the goal of the Torah.

Are we going to make our home on the stage we use to teach the world about the Truth? If we do them in memorial and as rehearsal (which I agree with), do we then live in the play? We are to show the "MEANING" of the Torah, live it out in Truth and Spirit, not live it out like it was in days of old when the Temple was our only way to YHVH. We have a better way now. The way that was promised before the Torah was given to Moshe. This Torah was NOT supposed to change the promise given to Avraham. It was supposed to enhance it.

Another race car analogy. The Torah is like nitro. It is not the main fuel of the engine. It is given after the engine is going to bring the vehicle up to speed. Then the nitro is shut off and you reach your goal. But too many are saying to keep the nitro burning. And if you do that you will not only burn up the engine you will kill yourself. We are to know that the nitro is there for a certain reason. And we don't go thinking that once we used the nitro we can light up a cigarette (sin) when we are done with it. The fumes will explode you just the same. Even though the nitro was used up and served it's purpose. One foolish act and you can blow up the whole thing.

 

[yod]

ooops......double post;

please ignore this space since it is not what I wanted to say but rather my first attempt at saying what I really meant to say which is in the subsequent post that which follows these saying and says what I had originally hoped to say...sort of....

 

[yod]

One foolish act and you can blow up the whole thing.

Yet the Lord's sacrifice is able to "repair" even this....we have a better "pit group" than anyone in NASCAR




But that statement is parellel to my favorite verse of all time

Ecc 10:1

Dead flies in the ointment of the apothocary causeth it to send forth a stinking savor.....

 

[Shimshon]

Why yes, as long as the parts remain the Master wrencher can always reassemble you and put you back on the line saying. DO IT AGAIN!!! Red .............Yellow...............GOOOOOOOOOo!!!!

BTW, my machines have only two cylinders and two wheels, one of which should remain on the ground for at least the........last few seconds of the run, at least, to make sure your still goin' straight. hehe But the 300 rear tire should make for a good straight run, if you've aligned it right.

Torque baby!!!!

 

[visionary]

Ahhhh....That delicate balance between christian and jew where Yeshua is found....in spirit and in truth.

 

[Sephania]

You can not partake of the Lamb of G-d without circumsision. In the old days that was performed in the flesh of the man. 1,500 years later the requirement became a circumsision of the heart, the heart was rent in true repentance, and it the only way to "partake" of the Passover lamb of G-d.

The feast of unleavened bread was to symbolize that this very day ( the day you have accepted the Lamb of G-d into your circumsized heart) is that day "I brought you out this very day out of the land of Egypt (from bondage of sin)". It was the day that the L-RD became the salvation of ya'akov, Israel. From the death we were given life, and if we accept that , we have been brought out.

I am celebrating the fact that my heart was circumsised and I was brought out from the land of sin and bondage by the outstreatched arms of my G-d, and I was as unleavened bread because of that acceptance.

I hope I am not too many pages apart achi. You aren't the only one to have things happen while you were gone.

 

[visionary]

[sign]You must
spread some Reputation
around before
giving it to Zayit again.[/sign]

 

[yod]

amen to all of that, Zayit