Caution! Rick Joyner is coming with more "revelations"!

[Yitzchak]

Incredibly wise and balanced words.

Is it not possible that both sides of this issue have merit?
Not concerning cynicism, but perhaps not failing to diligently search out every matter, and even then STILL remaining watchfully hopeful? Even good men and sincere practitioners can be turned aside if caught unawares, and sometimes fear is the only sound approach. The end result should be meekness, resolve, loving kindness and guarded vigilance.

It is indeed a narrow path we are to walk.

If I understand what you mean by " the Issue ", then yes. There are two sides of the issue.

True discernment sees all three catagories. It sees when the person is false , it sees when the person is true and it sees when it is a time to say that we don't know.

There is also the fact that even true people can make errors and stumble into sin. Even a good minister can have error.

If we were to focus upon things like the divorce rate and the bankruptcy rate within the church , we would condemn the vast majority of the church and some independent churches do that very thing and teach that they are the very tiny remnant of true ones. I visited a King James only Independent Baptist church once which had such a narrow view that they excluded almost everyone on the basis of anything from the details of their eschatology to the way they dressed to whether or not they allowed women to teach. I call that sectarian bias and not discernment.

The only one perfect is God and his holy word. Even good sermons often have a human element of error in them. This is why we are instructed to be like bereans and to test things and retain the good but get rid of the bad.

1 Thessalonians 5:21

But test everything. Keep what is good,

One of the ironies in this thread , unfortunately , is that the bad is found in many of the criticisms and positions taken on this thread.


I had a thread recently on this forum talking about Chrislam and Rick Warren. I freely admitted that some people might not find enough hard evidence to convince them , but I was and am still convinced that Warren is false. Not that he is a good man with some error , but that he is of the spirit of the anti christ and a liar. I provided numerous links with a document which Warren signed a few videos of him speaking , one at a Muslim conference. I cited my own personal gut feeling of Warren as part of my reason. This is all public knowledge on this forum. Some disagreed with me and some agreed. So the issue is not that I have taken a stand that a minister can never be wrong. The posts which state that is my position simply made that up and are in fact lies about my position.

On this thread and on the other threads about Haggee and Roth , there are not links provided and no evidence is presented. The logic seems to be because someone wants them to be evil and because evil exists somewhere , then they must be evil. I find that reasoning to be absurd. The personal attacks and slander of me is just icing on the cake. I don't see two sides to that.

What I see is that certain posters have their pet issues which they push in every thread and I place that in the category of sectarian bias.


But as a general concept , there are two sides in the sense that there are people who are false and there is error in the teachings of some who call themselves Christian. If that is what you mean , then yes , I agree.

 

[Frogster]

was Jesus cynical?

sometimes...

that is why he was called a stumbling block....an offensive rock...taking the kingdom from some, and giving it to gentiles, telling people they were damned, and name called.

 

[Frogster]

I knew you were not shouting at me, LOL. You are still my brother in the Lord. One thing about us, we both seem to be stubborn cusses, and God can use a lot more that believe what they believe and are willing to fight for it. Be blessed. May our future interactions bring us closer to agreeing rather than further away so that God might be glorified, amen?

Hope your Saturday is going well.

Blessings,

Gids

you too bro...amen!

 

[Frogster]

If I understand what you mean by " the Issue ", then yes. There are two sides of the issue.

True discernment sees all three catagories. It sees when the person is false , it sees when the person is true and it sees when it is a time to say that we don't know.

There is also the fact that even true people can make errors and stumble into sin. Even a good minister can have error.

If we were to focus upon things like the divorce rate and the bankruptcy rate within the church , we would condemn the vast majority of the church and some independent churches do that very thing and teach that they are the very tiny remnant of true ones. I visited a King James only Independent Baptist church once which had such a narrow view that they excluded almost everyone on the basis of anything from the details of their eschatology to the way they dressed to whether or not they allowed women to teach. I call that sectarian bias and not discernment.

The only one perfect is God and his holy word. Even good sermons often have a human element of error in them. This is why we are instructed to be like bereans and to test things and retain the good but get rid of the bad.

1 Thessalonians 5:21


One of the ironies in this thread , unfortunately , is that the bad is found in many of the criticisms and positions taken on this thread.


I had a thread recently on this forum talking about Chrislam and Rick Warren. I freely admitted that some people might not find enough hard evidence to convince them , but I was and am still convinced that Warren is false. Not that he is a good man with some error , but that he is of the spirit of the anti christ and a liar. I provided numerous links with a document which Warren signed a few videos of him speaking , one at a Muslim conference. I cited my own personal gut feeling of Warren as part of my reason. This is all public knowledge on this forum. Some disagreed with me and some agreed. So the issue is not that I have taken a stand that a minister can never be wrong. The posts which state that is my position simply made that up and are in fact lies about my position.

On this thread and on the other threads about Haggee and Roth , there are not links provided and no evidence is presented. The logic seems to be because someone wants them to be evil and because evil exists somewhere , then they must be evil. I find that reasoning to be absurd. The personal attacks and slander of me is just icing on the cake. I don't see two sides to that.

What I see is that certain posters have their pet issues which they push in every thread and I place that in the category of sectarian bias.


But as a general concept , there are two sides in the sense that there are people who are false and there is error in the teachings of some who call themselves Christian. If that is what you mean , then yes , I agree.

Red above, this whole link thing, gee sid reruns all week, and you can watch joyner in his chat with enoch and elijah on tv, and hagee has reached satruation already, everyone knows all this, so lets not act like the frog is not true here, again, as you called me anti-semite, and a cessationist, all while rick joyner is a bible hero, a cutging edge kind of guy, you're posts are showing alot, with all due repsect....

 

[Frogster]

tee hee , I was referring to Paul Crouch

seriously, maybe you are joking, I can't tell, I just wanted to check, you did not mean the apostle Paul? I only ask because in our previous conversations, in all fairness, with all due respect, show that you are not exactly a Paul fan, indeed, anyone in ther GT section knows that, so again, sorry, just double checking so I know what you meant, oh my,you actually meant Crouch in your post?

Thanks, be blessed, frog.

 

[Yitzchak]

You're right , I didn't provide any links and refused to answer questions directed to me. I have made it almost impossible to have a cohesive discussion. Everyone knows all this, so lets not act like the frog is not wrong here. of course , I am wrong.

Again and again , I have called myself an anti-semite, and a cessationist, all while calling rick joyner a bible hero, a cutting edge kind of guy, my posts are showing alot, with all due respect. I was wrong all along and Joyner is great. Tee hee.

What a bizarre post...Wow.


As far as you calling yourself an anti semite and a cessationist , I guess your cynicism has run it's full course and now you have turned it on yourself. Sorry , I can't help you with that. I would never call you those things. You shouldn't be so hard on yourself.

You really should make up your mind about your position on the issue though. One minute you're in favor of Joyner and the next you're against him. On minute you're not an anti semite and the next you are calling your self one. try to stick to a position so that we can have a more intelligent discussion.

 

[Yitzchak]

I take back what I said about Rick Joyner and Sid Roth. I don't know what came over me. I guess I was acting kind of like a wing nut. Maybe someone needs to start a thread on me.
Anyway , I obviously just made this stuff up because I think it is fun to mock Christian ministers. It makes me feel like I am better at their expense. I know it is wrong. I guess I will repent now. I am also sorry for flaming other posters and trying to bully people with lies and slander. I take it all back.
Oh yeah. sorry about the typos too.

The thing that really convinced me that I was wrong was this passage.

Lev 14:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Lev 14:2 This shall be the law of the leper in the day of his cleansing: He shall be brought unto the priest:
Lev 14:3 And the priest shall go forth out of the camp; and the priest shall look, and, behold, if the plague of leprosy be healed in the leper;
Lev 14:4 Then shall the priest command to take for him that is to be cleansed two birds alive and clean, and cedar wood, and scarlet, and hyssop:

This passage proves that I was wrong and there is absolutely no way for anyone to refute it. The Bible proves it. tee hee.

Now that's more like it. Now we are getting somewhere. I think that we finally agree. The passage which you posted was very convincing. Just don't be too hard on yourself. We all make mistakes.

Are you sure you're feeling all right ? The last few posts were very strange. tee hee. I think I'm really starting to get your humor. What a knee slapper.

 

[Frogster]

What a bizarre post...Wow.


As far as you calling yourself an anti semite and a cessationist , I guess your cynicism has run it's full course and now you have turned it on yourself. Sorry , I can't help you with that. I would never call you those things. You shouldn't be so hard on yourself.

You really should make up your mind about your position on the issue though. One minute you're in favor of Joyner and the next you're against him. On minute you're not an anti semite and the next you are calling your self one. try to stick to a position so that we can have a more intelligent discussion.

where are you getting that altered quote from, click it, it is not what i said....

dude

 

[Frogster]

Now that's more like it. Now we are getting somewhere. I think that we finally agree. The passage which you posted was very convincing. Just don't be too hard on yourself. We all make mistakes.

Are you sure you're feeling all right ? The last few posts were very strange. tee hee. I think I'm really starting to get your humor. What a knee slapper.

wow, you're actually editing my posts, and changing them, i did not originally say that.......wow..tee hee....


i know where your going, but fact is, they said what they said, and you can't rebutt that, but to change my posts, is a knew one to me!


tee hee...

Bro, it would have been better to rebutt my verses, I asked you too, but instead you now change my posts...lol...

 

[Frogster]

Now that's more like it. Now we are getting somewhere. I think that we finally agree. The passage which you posted was very convincing. Just don't be too hard on yourself. We all make mistakes.

Are you sure you're feeling all right ? The last few posts were very strange. tee hee. I think I'm really starting to get your humor. What a knee slapper.

go watch the show, it is all right there, but this changing of my posts, to try to prove your untrue position of me is amazing...


if you want to presume a lie, prove it's a lie, but to alter my posts like this is...oh my!

 

[Yitzchak]

where are you getting that altered quote from, click it, it is not what i said....

dude

Well , you altered what I said and made things up about me so I thought that was what we were doing.

 

[Frogster]

Well , you altered what I said and made things up about me so I thought that was what we were doing.

but you altered my post, and the fact that you got a warning about calling me anti semite, proves you said it, and you did strongly imply, I was a cessationist, when you know I am not, that is the difference.

So you admit to altering my own words...

wow...

 

[Ajax 777]

If I understand what you mean by " the Issue ", then yes. There are two sides of the issue.

True discernment sees all three catagories. It sees when the person is false , it sees when the person is true and it sees when it is a time to say that we don't know.

There is also the fact that even true people can make errors and stumble into sin. Even a good minister can have error.

If we were to focus upon things like the divorce rate and the bankruptcy rate within the church , we would condemn the vast majority of the church and some independent churches do that very thing and teach that they are the very tiny remnant of true ones. I visited a King James only Independent Baptist church once which had such a narrow view that they excluded almost everyone on the basis of anything from the details of their eschatology to the way they dressed to whether or not they allowed women to teach. I call that sectarian bias and not discernment.

The only one perfect is God and his holy word. Even good sermons often have a human element of error in them. This is why we are instructed to be like bereans and to test things and retain the good but get rid of the bad.

1 Thessalonians 5:21


One of the ironies in this thread , unfortunately , is that the bad is found in many of the criticisms and positions taken on this thread.


I had a thread recently on this forum talking about Chrislam and Rick Warren. I freely admitted that some people might not find enough hard evidence to convince them , but I was and am still convinced that Warren is false. Not that he is a good man with some error , but that he is of the spirit of the anti christ and a liar. I provided numerous links with a document which Warren signed a few videos of him speaking , one at a Muslim conference. I cited my own personal gut feeling of Warren as part of my reason. This is all public knowledge on this forum. Some disagreed with me and some agreed. So the issue is not that I have taken a stand that a minister can never be wrong. The posts which state that is my position simply made that up and are in fact lies about my position.

On this thread and on the other threads about Haggee and Roth , there are not links provided and no evidence is presented. The logic seems to be because someone wants them to be evil and because evil exists somewhere , then they must be evil. I find that reasoning to be absurd. The personal attacks and slander of me is just icing on the cake. I don't see two sides to that.

What I see is that certain posters have their pet issues which they push in every thread and I place that in the category of sectarian bias.


But as a general concept , there are two sides in the sense that there are people who are false and there is error in the teachings of some who call themselves Christian. If that is what you mean , then yes , I agree.

Well, yes, that is more or less what I meant. I meant the overshadowing topic of how we exercise our senses to discern both good and evil. Certainly I understand that there are people who look for ways to justify their own views as though they were the truth of God (I fear I've been guilty of this myself in the past), but I never considered you one of 'em.

That said, we don't agree about everything, but I am happy just to keep my eyes on the light. To quote a line from an old King's X song, "Who can restrain Pleiades? Or know the laws of Heavenlies? How many times have we been wrong before?"

 

[Yitzchak]

wow, you're actually editing my posts, and changing them, i did not originally say that.......wow..tee hee....


i know where your going, but fact is, they said what they said, and you can't rebutt that, but to change my posts, is a knew one to me!


tee hee...

Bro, it would have been better to rebutt my verses, I asked you too, but instead you now change my posts...lol...

You refused to engage in dialog but instead made up straw men where you misrepresented what I said. You actually took it as far as making up lies about what I supposedly said about you.

You argued with yourself and then gloated that you were the winner of the argument which you just had with yourself. Except you included my name in it. I figured that this is what you wanted. A discussion where we just make things up and pretend the other person said something which they didn't.

Anyway , you altered what Sid Roth and Joyner said and made up lies about me several times now. So I figured that this is the way that the game is played. I'm learning from you how to exercise discernment and win an argument. How am I doing ? tee hee.

Maybe I'm just being cynical about you ? I don't actually need any evidence , do I ? Can't I just fill in the blanks with whatever it takes to make you look wrong ?


Or , on the other hand , is it right to represent people accurately and not falsely accuse them ? It it so difficult to keep it all straight.


here is a verse to prove that i am right. I am making posts that bear fruit after their kind , see what I mean ? If you think about it you will see this verse fits right in and proves I am right and you are wrong. tee hee.

Gen 1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

 

[Alive_Again]

Speaking of Rick Warren (for a moment). I don't agree with what I've heard of his program (at least how it's administered). I heard one testimony of how a large church was "taken over" and elders dismissed. The more I heard, the more I wept.

But Rick was on TV last night on one of those news-talk shows. I can't think of his name right off, but he's a very well known, British guy who interviews many famous people (Pierce?). Anyway, he seems to be gay (judging by the way he's insinuation how the church needs to revise itself on the gay issue). Anyway, he cornered Rick about it (no doubt thinking they'll pry something controversial out of him). He said something like, "I don't believe that God changes what He thinks to make certain people happy (I'm sure this is far from exact.)." "...Yet you keep inviting me on your show."

The audience applauded and I was really surprised for the stance that Warren took, when many cave on the issue as man-pleasers.

 

[Frogster]

You refused to engage in dialog but instead made up straw men where you misrepresented what I said. You actually took it as far as making up lies about what I supposedly said about you.

You argued with yourself and then gloated that you were the winner of the argument which you just had with yourself. Except you included my name in it. I figured that this is what you wanted. A discussion where we just make things up and pretend the other person said something which they didn't.

Anyway , you altered what Sid Roth and Joyner said and made up lies about me several times now. So I figured that this is the way that the game is played. I'm learning from you how to exercise discernment and win an argument. How am I doing ? tee hee.

Maybe I'm just being cynical about you ? I don't actually need any evidence , do I ? Can't I just fill in the blanks with whatever it takes to make you look wrong ?


Or , on the other hand , is it right to represent people accurately and not falsely accuse them ? It it so difficult to keep it all straight.


here is a verse to prove that i am right. I am making posts that bear fruit after their kind , see what I mean ? If you think about it you will see this verse fits right in and proves I am right and you are wrong. tee hee.

why did you get a warning about the anti semite remark you aimed at me, if i was wrong?


when you imply i thnhk the gifts ceased with the first centruty church, you imply, without a doubt, cessationism.

so, show the lies you say i did, but to alter my posts, then to reply to them is beyond tee hee...it is teeee heeeeskeeeeee

 

[Yitzchak]

but I posted lies about you. and the fact that I control my own posting and I was the one who called myself an anti semite, proves that I said it, and not you. I did strongly imply that I was a cessationist, but when you refused to take the bait , I just lied and pretended you said it anyway.

So I admit to altering your words.

wow... I am so wrong

Yes you are. But I keep telling you not to be so hard on yourself. Just stop doing it.

 

[Yitzchak]

why do I keep lying about you ? ? I think it is because that is what I do to try and avoid admitting when I am wrong. But I am so confused now. I keep lying and can't seem to stop....

Just stop doing it. You can if you try.

 

[Frogster]

Yes you are. But I keep telling you not to be so hard on yourself. Just stop doing it.

so after all my calls to debate text, all you can do now is alter my posts?

 

[Yitzchak]

I am against Jewish stuff. It really bothers me that the Jews even exist.

Man , take a chill pill. Somebody might think that you are anti Jewish if you keep talking that way. But we all know that you are not , of course. good thing i'm not cynical about it . tee Hee....