Catholics ONLY: Vat to Seminarians: No gay tendencies for 3 yrs

[graysparrow]

This is new?

Yes and no, you have to pass a psychological assesment, at least here in Spain, which of course covers the sexual affective aspects of your life.

 

[RedTulipMom]

I was listening to Relevant Radio today and they had a Priest on their that was explaining the document point by point. The interesting part was that even a straight male who accepts and condones gay culture is excluded from the seminary. Also, as far as the 3 yr thing, he went into more detail about that saying that if in highschool you "dabbled" BRIEFLY in a gay lifestyle "during a transition time in your life" and then realized the wrongness of it...then if after 3 yrs of not dabbling in it anymore and admitting it is wrong you CAn apply for seminary. The Priest said, however that this doesnt include adults who have led a gay lifestyle for years. In other words...if a man led a gay lifestyle for say 5 yrs and then at age 25 decided to stop the lifestyle...he would NOT be eligible 3 yrs later..he would never be eligible to join seminary. The 3 yr thing is only for teenagers dabbling. And as far as a straight male who condones the gay lifestyle..he said it is a disorder.

 

[fragmentsofdreams]

I wonder what the document means when it speaks of "deeply rooted homoexual tendencies"? In practice, this would seem to me to be simply prohibiting anyone with a homosexual orientation, celibate or not, from Holy Orders. I do not see how the vast majority of homosexuals are able to change their inclinations--if they are unable to change them but are able to control them would they still be banned from the seminary?

Since CCC2358 uses the word tendencies to refer to the inclination, it does appear that this does prohibit homosexuals who cannot change their orientation. There does not appear to be any exceptions.

 

[fragmentsofdreams]

Huh? Where did you get that impression? It doesn't say anything about prohibiting anyone with sexual inclinations, homosexual or otherwise.

What it says is this:



It is talking about someone who is ACTIVELY engaging in sexual activity *outside Holy Matrimony*. It isn't talking against someone having a same-sex orientation. And we know this by what it says next:



Therefore, in context, it is saying that if someone WAS FORMERLLY sexually ACTIVE at one time, and then were able to overcome this activity for a period of time THEN they would be considered for the priesthood since they will have demonstrated that they are now masters over their own urges. And sometimes our sexual urges are "deeply rooted...tendencies" which MUST be overcome if one is to be celbate.

Now...as to the question about straight seminarians...OF COURSE they too are called to celibacy and they too must master their own urges. The reason why this document had to be issued is in answer to the sex scandal which, like it or not, DID involve a significant amount of homosexual activity on the part of some gay priests. This move is long overdue, IMHO. This doesn't entail a double standard as straight men are called to the same level of celibacy as gay men.

God's Peace,

NewMan

The relevant part of the document:

In the light of such teaching, this Dicastery, together with the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, deems it necessary to clearly affirm that the Church, even while deeply respecting the persons in question, cannot admit to Seminary or Holy Orders those who are actively homosexual, have deep-seated homosexual tendencies, or support the so-called gay culture.

Such people, in fact, find themselves in a situation that seriously obstructs them from properly relating to men and women. The negative consequences that can result from the Ordination of persons with deep-seated homosexual tendencies should not be obscured.

When dealing, instead, with homosexual tendencies that might only be a manifestation of a transitory problem, as, for example, delayed adolescence, these must be clearly overcome at least three years before diaconal Ordination.​

A quote from the CCC explaining the meaning of deap-seated tendencies:

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.​

Both documents imply that many with deap-seated tendencies are celibate, so overcoming these tendencies can't mean living celibately. Therefore, it must mean that they must get rid of their same-sex attractions.

 

[RedTulipMom]

hmmmm..this is where this thread disappeared to!!

 

[Robbie_James_Francis]

Huh? Where did you get that impression? It doesn't say anything about prohibiting anyone with sexual inclinations, homosexual or otherwise

It goes on to say:

"the church, while deeply respecting the people in question, cannot admit to the seminary and the sacred orders those who practice homosexuality, present deeply rooted homosexual tendencies or support so-called gay culture"

"One cannot ignore the negative consequences that can stem from the ordination of people with deeply rooted homosexual tendencies"

It seems to me that someone with "deeply rooted homosexual tendencies" could be an entirely celibate man with a homosexual inclination. Going through a transistory period in which one believes that one is homosexual or commits homosexual acts doesn't make one a homosexual...so judging from this quote, the document is saying that all people with a homosexual inclination must be prohibited from the seminary.