Catholics in Malaysia refer to God as Allah

[ebia]

I suspect that's because you don't know much about PNG. Your comment is like me saying "I heard about that school shooting - no way would I choose to live in the US".

Come to think of it, I probably would choose Maylasia or Indonesia over the US.

 

[andy b]

I'd rather live in Indonesia or Malaysia than PNG.

talk is cheap yah im sure you would ...listen brother ill let you in on a secret if you aint muslim you dont do to well in these countries but you already know this ...my guess is you wont be emigrating to a Muslim country any time soon so its a circular argument

 

[andy b]

Other than a Muslim, how many people would want to leave a country that has mostly a Christian population to live in a Muslim country? I don't see any mad rush of people trying to immigrate to Muslim countries. I only see people running for their lives desperately trying to escape.

you know the score brother god be with you

 

[ebia]

talk is cheap yah im sure you would ...listen brother ill let you in on a secret if you aint muslim you dont do to well in these countries but you already know this ...my guess is you wont be emigrating to a Muslim country any time soon so its a circular argument

I've got no plans to be emigrating anywhere. But if I had, those two are plausible destinations as much as anywhere else.

PNG certainly is not.

 

[andy b]

I've got no plans to be emigrating anywhere. But if I had, those two are plausible destinations as much as anywhere else.

PNG certainly is not.

you aint going any where because the country you live in was built on Christian values ...why is that so hard to admit

 

[ebia]

you aint going any where because the country you live in was built on Christian values ...why is that so hard to admit

I'm not going anywhere because I don't have a reason to go anywhere.

I will admit to enjoying the prosperity of Australia, but that wealth is built on exploitation and theft - if that's Christian values I'm a marshmallow.
I will admit to enjoying the multicultural aspects of Australia - and not the racism of most white, "Christian", Australians.

 

[andy b]

I'm not going anywhere because I don't have a reason to go anywhere.

I will admit to enjoying the prosperity of Australia, but that wealth is built on exploitation and theft - if that's Christian values I'm a marshmallow.
I will admit to enjoying the multicultural aspects of Australia - and not the racism of most white, "Christian", Australians.

well why not give the wealth you have acquired that was built on theft away ...no ill tell you what ..dont do that just ease your conscience by blaming the jews

 

[ebia]

well why not give the wealth you have acquired that was built on theft away ...no ill tell you what ..dont do that just ease your conscience by blaming the jews

Random off topic comment?

 

[RDKirk]

I'm not talking about all of us being children of God, but Jesus being his only son, or God the son as we know Him.

"As we know Him." Well, now, that is the rub, isn't it? How do we know Him as the "Son of God?" What does that really mean? Is what you mean by it exactly the same thing the Pope means by it? Yes, maybe you assent to the same words, but is the same understanding really what is in both of your heads?

What do we really know about that relationship? Certainly it's not the kind of sexually derived genetic relationship we usually mean by "son." Nor could John have really meant that even when he used the word "begotten."

We understand this is an analogy that explains the relationship only in part, and we don't even have a way to understand which part. The Greek monogenes that is translated as "begotten" means only that it is a special, unique relationship shared by none other.

Can a Muslim get to that? Sure, it's only a very small step from what the Koran says about Jesus. Just go through the gospel and let the gospel say "son of God" the way the gospel says it, and a Muslim can get to that.

Let the gospel say that Jesus is the image of the invisible God, and a Muslim can get to that. Let the gospel say that all things created were created through Jesus, and a Muslim can get to that.

 

[RDKirk]

Russia has recently gone back to Christianity.

What does that mean?

Does that mean every single Russian is now a baptized, practicing, mass-going, confessing Christian? Or even a majority of them?

Or does it mean that Putin has done couple of photo-ops? Signed a couple of papers?

 

[RDKirk]

Zeus, Theos, and Deus are cognates, kind of.
Zeus is derived from Dyeus, the king of the Proto-Indo-European gods.
Deus comes from deiwos, another PIE word. (Fun fact: deiwos is also the source of our word Tuesday.)

However, for a couple of centuries before Christ, Greek philosophers were using the word Theos specifically to indicate an uber-god who was the original creator of the universe and Logos as the intelligent moral agent that is the physical manifestation of the creative plan of Theos--and that was the understanding of the audience to which the apostles were writing.

 

[RDKirk]

For those who insist on a Pollyanna view of Islam. Can we at least agree that there are good Muslims and bad ones?

And the "bad Muslims" have a name: Wahabis. If you get into a close enough relationship to discuss religion with any other Muslim, he will tell you that the Wahabis are bat-guano crazy heretics, and are the Muslims who are causing all this international terrorism.

Yes, other sects have their issues between them, like the general Sunni/Shia conflict and the fact that all of them disrespect the peaceful Sufis (who are the "charismatics" of the Muslim world--think of Radagast in "The Hobbit"). But the Muslims we're scared of are the Wahabis.

But you won't hear the US government point them out...because Saudi Arabia is the home of Wahabism, and Saudis and most of the Arabs the US has its oil contracts with are Wahabis. Further, Wahabis are, if you will excuse the comparison, like the Jesuits of Islam. They are the ones who are radicalizing prisoners in US prisons. They are the ones running most of the masjids in the US. They are the ones gaining the most ground.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

"As we know Him." Well, now, that is the rub, isn't it? How do we know Him as the "Son of God?" What does that really mean? Is what you mean by it exactly the same thing the Pope means by it? Yes, maybe you assent to the same words, but is the same understanding really what is in both of your heads?

What do we really know about that relationship? Certainly it's not the kind of sexually derived genetic relationship we usually mean by "son." Nor could John have really meant that even when he used the word "begotten."

We understand this is an analogy that explains the relationship only in part, and we don't even have a way to understand which part. The Greek monogenes that is translated as "begotten" means only that it is a special, unique relationship shared by none other.

Can a Muslim get to that? Sure, it's only a very small step from what the Koran says about Jesus. Just go through the gospel and let the gospel say "son of God" the way the gospel says it, and a Muslim can get to that.

Let the gospel say that Jesus is the image of the invisible God, and a Muslim can get to that. Let the gospel say that all things created were created through Jesus, and a Muslim can get to that.

As we know him, God became man in Jesus Christ.

Of course Muslims never accept this.

But you stated that the Koran says that Jesus is the Son of God.

I asked for a verse.

This conflicts with what I have heard Muslims say.

Jim

 

[MikeK]

Other than a Muslim, how many people would want to leave a country that has mostly a Christian population to live in a Muslim country? I don't see any mad rush of people trying to immigrate to Muslim countries. I only see people running for their lives desperately trying to escape.

The United States, which you did not list as Christian, with virtually all of the other countries I mentioned (including Mexico!) have a positive rate of immigration from 2000-2013z. Russia (the country you called Christian) does not. Where is this clam prong to Christian countries? Of the countries mentioned, the one with far-and-away the highest abortion rate is Russia, the Christian one. Oh, I'm sure you'll blame a government that was ousted in 1989 (and one that Mr Putin is on record saying should still exist) for the fact that abortions in Russia are so much more popular than the are in France or the USA or Germany or Mexico or the Netherlands.

Nobody moves to Muslim countries because they tend to be equatorial countries that nobody who has the ability to move wishes to move to. Still, Bahrain, Qatar and UAE have very high immigration rates.

 

[RDKirk]

As we know him, God became man in Jesus Christ.

That phrase is not a "Jesus is the son of God" assertion, that phrase is a "Jesus is God" assertion.

The Koran does not deny the New Testament verses of Jesus asserting that He is the Son of God the Father--the Koran does no deny what Jesus is specifically quoted as saying about Himself. The Koran does directly deny what "the Christians say" about Jesus.

That's why if one is speaking to a Muslim, the best tactic is to quote the New Testament directly, and not proof-text, but read the passages of the entire scene so Jesus' words about Himself are given in context.

Don't try to use a "Christians believe" tactic--go straight with scripture.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

Here's article about Islam that I found: Islam 101

 

[RileyG]

From My understanding:
Christian and Moslems do NOT worship the same God. (The Islamic God is not their father, he has no son, etc)..The Islamic "God" is a false god in our view.
That being said: There was a moon God known as 'Allah' in the pre-Islamic sense, and Christians in the Middle East were refer to God as 'Allah' before Mohammed was ever born.

I guess, in a way, referring to God as Allah can almost be just as Christian as Muslim, because the Christians referred to God as Allah first.

 

[ebia]

The United States, which you did not list as Christian, not with virtually all of the other countries I mentioned (including Mexico!) have a positive rate of immigration from 2000-2013z. Russia (the country you called Christian) does not. Where is this clam prong to Christian countries? Of the countries mentioned, the one with far-and-away the highest abortion rate is Russia, the Christian one. Oh, I'm sure you'll blame a government that was ousted in 1989 (and one that Mr Putin is on record saying should still exist) for the fact that abortions in Russia are so much more popular than the are in France or the USA or Germany or Mexico or the Netherlands. Nobody moves to Muslim countries because they tend to be equatorial countries that nobody who has the ability to move wishes to move to. Still, Bahrain, Qatar and UAE have very high immigration rates.

We might also note that some Muslim countries - eg Iran and Pakistan - provide temporary, long term, home to almost unimaginable numbers of refugees. Something like 1.6 million in Pakistan alone.

 

[StRestlessHeart333]

Except that a Muslim would refuse to accept the Old Testament name of God. And Muslims also strongly reject calling God our Father. Instead, they view God as an all-powerful slave master. Jews, on the other hand, do call God Father. It's interesting how it's always Christians trying to compromise for Muslims while Muslims won't compromise one iota of their beliefs for us.

Wait! What???? No one comprimised to Muslims. Arab Christians existed before Islam. The use of the word Allah is originally OURS!!! They TOOK THE WORD ALLAH FROM US (Arab Christians). So of course it's in the Arabic Bible and Arabic prayers. Their prophet stole segments and stories from Christianty and Jewdasim and mixed it with a very twisted religion which was at that time claiming to follow Christ, yet that religion did not admit that he was the Son of God or that He was Crossified. Then he made up his own religion telling people that God (Allah) would actually want them to kill Christians and Jews in his name. And you know the rest.

But yes we call God Allah. He is our Allah. But unlike us they follow a twisted imige of God painted by a man who fell for the lies of Satan.

Comprimsing meaning we would do something like call Jesus Eassa! Which is the name mentioned in the Qoran. But we call him Yasooa in Arabic, or Yashooa in Chaldean. No faithful Christian would "compremise" for a muslim and call Jesus by his Muslim name "Eassa". Cuz Eassa is just a prophet to them.

 

[StRestlessHeart333]

I guess I can explain the difference of how Arab Christians and Muslims view God is like the way Catholics view Mary, and how Protestants view her, but multibly that by 100000000000000000000000000000000000000...000. Muslims' knowloge of the one true God is merly a Shadow of how we Christians know him. Jesus revealed God to us in the Holy Trinity. And made US his chosen poeple. Muslims merly follow him as a master. They are his slaves. They obey him to martyrdom, like us Christians, only our definetion of Martyrdom and theirs is exactly the opposite. Of course even Jews know God better than Muslims. So basicly Muslims think that they really believe in the one true God. But they only know his name! ALLAH!! They know nothing about him and his commandments, teachings, laws, Kingdom, etc.