Catholics and "the Sacred Heart of Mary"

Paul Yohannan

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My understanding is that co-redemptrix is mainly advocated by an isolated group of followers of Ida Peerdeman, who experienced a private experience alleged to be "Our Lady of All Nations." I consider these to not be genuine Marian apparitions but instead rather sinister; if you actually read them they contain threatening statements which are not characteristic of St. Mary.
 
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Paul Yohannan

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There are by the way a frustrating number of unsanctioned Marian apparitions which have devotees in the RCC. Ida Peerdeman's group is one of the two most troubling, the other being the alleged apparition of St. Mary to the youths at Medjugorje.
 
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JesusLovesOurLady

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I notice this Catholic tendency to map the Divine qualities of our Lord onto the Theotokos (literally: God-bearer, what we call Mary) and turn her into a Divine being herself when she was in fact completely human just like me. This is most apparent in the Catholic practice of choosing a body part of hers such as her heart and venerating that specifically. If she was a great woman, but simply woman (human) how could her heart be Divine and sacred? Why is her "sacred heart" venerated?


Also, can a Catholic explain to me the logic of viewing Mary as coredemptrix? I read on a Catholic blog that her tears when she went to Christ on the cross mingled with Christ's blood and thus became as much part of our salvation as his blood did. I regard the notion that Mary having a hand in our actual salvation (not Mary interceding on our behalf and asking God to save us, but being able to save us herded) as heresy since it turns her into a God or demigod like figure.
My understanding of the Immaculate Heart is that it symbolizes the union of Our Lady's will with Our Lord's via her "Fiat," and that this union is unhindered by sin, due to her sinlessness hence the title: "Immaculate Heart." Union of one's will does not make one "God-like" just Godly.

In regards to the title "coredemptrix," this title is purely speculative, it's based predominately on her Co-passion with Our Lord at the foot of His Cross. I myself am on the bench in regards to this speculation, I do have a devotion to Our Lady of Sorrows and pray the Chaplet of the Seven Sorrows everyday. I might ask some fellow Catholics about this speculation and then get back to you as the arguments for and against this idea.
 
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JesusLovesOurLady

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In regards to the title "coredemptrix," this title is purely speculative, it's based predominately on her Co-passion with Our Lord at the foot of His Cross. I myself am on the bench in regards to this speculation, I do have a devotion to Our Lady of Sorrows and pray the Chaplet of the Seven Sorrows everyday. I might ask some fellow Catholics about this speculation and then get back to you as the arguments for and against this idea.
I also forgot to mention that Our Lord's redemptive mission is in a sense dependent on Our Lady. She needed to say "yes" to God in order for Humanity to redeemed, in that sense she is "coredemptrix" due to this important role she played. Again I'm on the fence over this and am not going to make any decision until the current or some future Pope says so.
 
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Paul Yohannan

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My understanding of the Immaculate Heart is that it symbolizes the union of Our Lady's will with Our Lord's via her "Fiat," and that this union is unhindered by sin, due to her sinlessness hence the title: "Immaculate Heart." Union of one's will does not make one "God-like" just Godly.

In regards to the title "coredemptrix," this title is purely speculative, it's based predominately on her Co-passion with Our Lord at the foot of His Cross. I myself am on the bench in regards to this speculation, I do have a devotion to Our Lady of Sorrows and pray the Chaplet of the Seven Sorrows everyday. I might ask some fellow Catholics about this speculation and then get back to you as the arguments for and against this idea.

It's quite a dangerous speculation. If the RCC officially embraced that view, it would open the door to female priests and simultaneously kill off the prospect of ecumenical reconciliation with the Orthodox.
 
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JesusLovesOurLady

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It's quite a dangerous speculation. If the RCC officially embraced that view, it would open the door to female priests and simultaneously kill off the prospect of ecumenical reconciliation with the Orthodox.
No, contrary to what the title "coredemptrix" might imply, the title is in no ways taken to mean that she had a priestly role in her Son's sacrifice. She merely "offered it up" as all lay Catholics ought to do when suffering arises, and was completely faithful to the Lord in carrying out her role in history as all Christians are called to do.
 
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Paul Yohannan

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No, contrary to what the title "coredemptrix" might imply, the title is in no ways taken to mean that she had a priestly role in her Son's sacrifice. She merely "offered it up" as all lay Catholics ought to do when suffering arises, and was completely faithful to the Lord in carrying out her role in history as all Christians are called to do.

There is no way the Orthodox Church could entertain the possibility of restored communion if the RCC were to embrace the so-called "Fifth dogma."

Most of the people advocating this change are believers in the Ida Peerdeman apparitions, which are not credible (in terms of content, they are more disturbing than the unconvincing, banal statements associated with Medjugorje).
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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There is no way the Orthodox Church could entertain the possibility of restored communion if the RCC were to embrace the so-called "Fifth dogma."

Most of the people advocating this change are believers in the Ida Peerdeman apparitions, which are not credible (in terms of content, they are more disturbing than the unconvincing, banal statements associated with Medjugorje).
Confessional Lutherans stand with our Orthodox Brothers and sisters on this also.
 
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Basil the Great

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When I studied up on the proposed fifth Marian Dogma a few years back, I recall reading that the Polish saint, Maximilian Kolbe, is the one who really tried to explain the theology behind the Co-Redemptrix title.
 
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anna ~ grace

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I'm Orthodox, so this isn't an attack on the veneration of Mary because we also venerate her and love her. She is the most perfect Saint. However we don't see her as Divine.


I notice this Catholic tendency to map the Divine qualities of our Lord onto the Theotokos (literally: God-bearer, what we call Mary) and turn her into a Divine being herself when she was in fact completely human just like me. This is most apparent in the Catholic practice of choosing a body part of hers such as her heart and venerating that specifically. If she was a great woman, but simply woman (human) how could her heart be Divine and sacred? Why is her "sacred heart" venerated?


Also, can a Catholic explain to me the logic of viewing Mary as coredemptrix? I read on a Catholic blog that her tears when she went to Christ on the cross mingled with Christ's blood and thus became as much part of our salvation as his blood did. I regard the notion that Mary having a hand in our actual salvation (not Mary interceding on our behalf and asking God to save us, but being able to save us herded) as heresy since it turns her into a God or demigod like figure.


Again, we LOVE Mary and we love the saints. We venerate them and we pray for their intercession on our behalf, but the saints (Theotokos included) were human and can not save us.


I'm very interested in hearing a Catholic expand upon this.

Hey, Sir. I'm not Catholic exactly, but do try with God's help to live as a Catholic Christian inwardly, and am still learning and studying. At first, and for quite a number of years, the idea of Mary as co-redemptrix just bugged and puzzled me. I came to the knowledge of Christ in a Baptist setting, and most things Catholic just struck me as "extra" or just plain odd.

What I have found is that the best way for this ex-Protestant to understand Catholic and Orthodox theologies (both the theologies and doctrines that these Churches share, and the ones that they do not), is to pray my way through them. How does Mary save us? It could be said that through her prayers, mercy, grace, and intercession, she shows us to and unites us with her Son. And in this way she has a place in our salvation. Through the merits of her blessedness and purity, too there must also be grace and mercy for us.

Scripture bears witness of her that "And thy own soul a sword shall pierce, that, out of many hearts, thoughts may be revealed". The pierced heart of Mary and the pierced side and heart of Jesus seem to be connected, as the piercing of Mary's heart would have been at her Son's death on the cross, and that water and blood gushed from the side of Jesus, so her pierced heart, too, must have some merit and work in our salvation. Not of her own power, but the grace and love of God working through her humble "yes", and her willingness to let God's will be done in her life, and in ours.
 
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mea kulpa

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The two hearts are of couse connected from the love a son has for his mother and vice versa to actually our lord recieving part of our ladies dna.

But what strikes me is the two hearts of our lord and our lady are united in suffering for humanity our lords heart was peirced by the spear our ladies heart by the sword of grief... they both suffered the passion


Luke 2:34-35

Then Simeon blessed them and said to Mary, his mother: “This child is destined to cause the falling and rising of many in Israel, and to be a sign that will be spoken against, 35so that the thoughts of many hearts will be revealed. And a sword will pierce your own soul too.


548f89dd331618e957962da84410c4d4.jpg


Notice the sword

On the sacred heart of jesus we see the crown of thorns

Thud Both point to the crucifixion
 
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