Catholic?

[Albion]

There’s nothing wrong with prayers for intercession and supplication. Only prayers of worship are forbidden to anyone other than God. We are encouraged to pray for one another and ask for prayers from others.

"One another," yes. We are not encouraged to pray to spirits of the dead, however.

 

[chevyontheriver]

So, to say that the Trinity isn't true because the word isn't in the Bible is an invalid argument. Furthermore, to say that if God wanted us to believe in the Trinity He would have clearly taught it in scripture, is also an invalid argument.

Something does not have to be clearly formulated in the Bible to be valid. Not all things taught in the Bible are perfectly clear.

Oh, we believe in the Trinity. And in other things taught by the apostles and their successor bishops even if they are not clear from the Bible alone. It's this Bible alone thingie that some people are so fond of which isn't from the Bible alone, but from the traditions of men.

 

[Albion]

Oh, we believe in the Trinity. And in other things taught by the apostles and their successor bishops even if they are not clear from the Bible alone. It's this Bible alone thingie that some people are so fond of which isn't from the Bible alone, but from the traditions of men.

Sola Scriptura is not from any traditions and, in fact, when it suits, the popular rejoiner that is often given by Catholics is that it was a brand new idea in the 16th century. Obviously it cannot be both at once.

Secondly, the Trinity IS supported by Scripture, contrary to what you wrote here. In fact, it is almost unmistakable, even though the teaching is difficult for all Christians to get their heads around, whether they are Catholics or Protestants. But it is taught in Scripture all right.

That is why people who are making some point about it usually take care to say that the word Trinity is not in Scripture, rather than that the concept itself is not.

 

[PoppyB]

ask for prayers from others.

Yes we are but not from dead people.

 

[Major1]

There’s nothing wrong with prayers for intercession and supplication. Only prayers of worship are forbidden to anyone other than God. We are encouraged to pray for one another and ask for prayers from others.

Agree...….those who are alive, not dead.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Sola Scriptura is not from any traditions and, in fact, when it suits, the popular rejoiner that is often given by Catholics is that it was a brand new idea in the 16th century. Obviously it cannot be both at once.

Sola Scriptura is a new tradition of men invented in the 16th century.

Secondly, the Trinity IS supported by Scripture, contrary to what you wrote here. In fact, it is almost unmistakable, even though the teaching is difficult for all Christians to get their heads around, whether they are Catholics or Protestants. But it is taught in Scripture all right.

That is why people who are making some point about it usually take care to say that the word Trinity is not in Scripture, rather than that the concept itself is not.

OF COURSE the Trinity is SUPPORTED by Scripture even if the word is not in Scripture. But Arius found ample Scripture to twist for his purposes nonetheless. The Trinity is not clear from Scripture. Otherwise Nicea would not have been necessary.

 

[Major1]

Oh, we believe in the Trinity. And in other things taught by the apostles and their successor bishops even if they are not clear from the Bible alone. It's this Bible alone thingie that some people are so fond of which isn't from the Bible alone, but from the traditions of men.

I hear you and understand. However just to show you where the difference is between us.....you said....
"apostles and their successor bishops ".

Now open your Bible and find that comment.

You see, there are NO Scriptures that say what you posted. NONE! There is no Scripture that validates "Apostolic Succession".

The 2nd thing I would point out to you is that Sola Scriptura is a biblical doctrine not because the Bible says so. That would be a tautology- the kind of argument we find in that collection of lies the Book of Mormon.

Instead the Bible is our alone final authority because it alone is the Word of God. It has been attested, authenticated, by God Himself.

2 Tim. 3:16-17...….
“All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.”

The Bible trumps man’s authority, church tradition, and our own opinions. We as Christians should not allow anything that opposes God’s Word to dictate our actions or control our thinking.

 

[Albion]

Sola Scriptura is a new tradition of men invented in the 16th century.

As I noted, Catholics sometimes charge that Sola Scriptura was a new notion in the 16th century, but also that they sometimes say that it was from some tradition instead. I must say that I cannot remember running into anyone before this who tried to say both at once.

OF COURSE the Trinity is SUPPORTED by Scripture even if the word is not in Scripture. But Arius found ample Scripture to twist for his purposes nonetheless. The Trinity is not clear from Scripture. Otherwise Nicea would not have been necessary.

So it is in the same category as just about every other doctrine of Christianity--subject to somebody or other coming up with a different interpretation. That isn't saying much.​

 

[concretecamper]

That is nothing more than a "smoke screen question", but I am happy to answer the question for you.

Everyone knows that the Word Trinity and in fact the word Rapture is not in the scriptures.
I am sure that you are aware of that fact.

That is simple a question that all Catholic believers are taught to use when talking about "Sola Scriptura".

First of all, it is illogical to claim that since the word "Trinity" is not found in the Bible that its concept is not taught therein. This kind of objection usually demonstrates a prejudice against the teaching of the Trinity. Instead, the person should look to God's word to see if it is taught or not.

Second, there are many biblical concepts that people believe in that don't have a specific word describing them used in the Bible. For example, the word "bible" is not found in the Bible, but we use it anyway to describe the Bible. Likewise, the words...….
"omniscience," which means "all knowing,"
"omnipotence," which means "all powerful,"
and "omnipresence," which means "present everywhere," are words not found in the Bible either, but we use them to describe the attributes of God. We don't have to see a specific word in the Bible in order for the concept it describes to be true.

Following are other words that the Bible does not use but the concepts are mentioned.

• Atheism is the teaching that there is no God. "The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God" (Psalm 14:1).
• Divinity which means divine quality or godlike character. Yet, we speak of the godlike quality of the Lord God. See Psalm 139.
• Incarnation which means the word (God) who became flesh. Yet, this is definitely taught in the Bible (John 1:1,14).
• Monotheism is the teaching that there is only one God (Isaiah 43:10; 44:8).
• Rapture is the teaching that the Christians who are alive when Jesus returns will be caught up to meet Him in the air (1 Thess. 4:16-18).

So, to say that the Trinity isn't true because the word isn't in the Bible is an invalid argument. Furthermore, to say that if God wanted us to believe in the Trinity He would have clearly taught it in scripture, is also an invalid argument.

Something does not have to be clearly formulated in the Bible to be valid. Not all things taught in the Bible are perfectly clear. Take a look at the book of Revelation. It contains many things that are cryptic that must be interpreted after examining all of the Bible. Even then, there are disagreements as to what some things mean. Yet, we know that the truths there are true whether or not we discover them.
How can you believe in the Trinity if the word "Trinity" isn't in the Bible? | CARM.org

I hope this answers your question. If not maybe you could ask someone else to explain better for you.

A decent explanation that you should follow yourself when confronted with Purgatory, Immaculate Conception, Transubstantiation, etc

 

[Albion]

A decent explanation that you should follow yourself when confronted with Purgatory, Immaculate Conception, Transubstantiation, etc

Hmmm. But there isn't anything in Scripture to support those inventions. Maybe some other doctrine would have worked better for you.

 

[Major1]

The Catholic Church has erased the doctrine of hell? News to me.


Which Catholic doctrine is that?

Homework my friend...do the homework!

VATICAN CITY, NOV. 30, 2005 (Zenit.org). —
Whoever seeks peace and the good of the community with a pure conscience, and keeps alive the desire for the transcendent, will be saved even if he lacks biblical faith, says Benedict XVI.

The Pope made this affirmation today at the general audience, commenting on a meditation written by St. Augustine (354-430


SOURCE: Pope Benedict XVI's general audience, November 30, 2005

The official Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church teaches that a person can get to Heaven some OTHER WAY besides faith in Christ if they're sincere . . .

RCC Catechism 1260 ……
"Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery." Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity."

Source: Catechism of the Catholic Church (online at the Vatican).
********************************************************************************

In an interview between Mr. Scalfari and the Pope was published March 28, 2018 in La Repubblica. The relevant section on Hell was translated by the highly respected web log, Rorate Caeli.

The interview is headlined.....
"The Pope: It is an honor to be called revolutionary." (Il Papa: “È un onore essere chiamato rivoluzionario.")

Scalfari says to the Pope, "Your Holiness, in our previous meeting you told me that our species will disappear in a certain moment and that God, still out of his creative force, will create new species. You have never spoken to me about the souls who died in sin and will go to hell to suffer it for eternity. You have however spoken to me of good souls, admitted to the contemplation of God. But what about bad souls? Where are they punished?"

Pope Francis says, "They are not punished, those who repent obtain the forgiveness of God and enter the rank of souls who contemplate him, but those who do not repent and cannot therefore be forgiven disappear. There is no hell, there is the disappearance of sinful souls."

My dear friend, instead of posting opinions and asking questions on the internet, I would enclurage you to follow 2 Timothy 2:15...……….
“Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.”

 

[Albion]

So it looks like a case being made for annihilationism?

 

[Major1]

A decent explanation that you should follow yourself when confronted with Purgatory, Immaculate Conception, Transubstantiation, etc

I am thinking that you probably not going to have wanted to post that comment.

NONE of those practice are actually in the Bible or are even suggested, or IMPLIED.

 

[Major1]

So it looks like a case being made for annihilationism?

That was my 1st thought as well!

 

[Albion]

Purgatory, Immaculate Conception, Transubstantiation

...and it is relatively easy to show why they are not Scriptural--if we want to go through them one by one. But that would be the subject for another thread.

 

[Major1]

So if he remarries he becomes polygamist?

Really? THAT is the question that perplexes you?

 

[Major1]

Can you post from scripture, the word 'Trinity'?

Or the words 'Sola Scripture'

No my dear I can not. No one can. But you knew that already. As A Catholic, I am a little surprised by any Catholic who would try and disprove such a strong RCC doctrine as the Trinity just because the word is not found in the Scriptures and then use the opposite argument to prove Purgatory, the Assentation of Mary. the Immaculate Conception of Mary, the Rosary and on and on and on.

Don't you see the problem in such an effort?

I can however post Scripture where the term is considered as "Implied Truth"...……..

The Trinity, 3 IN one IS SEEN OR implied IN...…….

Genesis 1:26
"Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

Who do YOU think that "US, and OUR" are in that verse?????

Genesis 3:22
"Then the Lord God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever".

Same question?


Matthew 3:16
“After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him.”

Matthew 12:28
“But if I [Jesus] cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.”

Matthew 28:19
“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit . . .”

The Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God—but there is only one God. That is the biblical doctrine of the Trinity.

 

[Major1]

Purgatory, Immaculate Conception, Transubstantiation

...and it is relatively easy to show why they are not Scriptural--if we want to go through them one by one. But that would be the subject for another thread.

Agreed, and If you do so, please let me know and I will be glad to join in..

 

[chevyontheriver]

As I noted, Catholics sometimes charge that Sola Scriptura was a new notion in the 16th century, but also that they sometimes say that it was from some tradition instead. I must say that I cannot remember running into anyone before this who tried to say both at once.
​

I'm so happy I could please you with my reply. Sola Scriptura IS a tradition of men AND it was created in the 16th century.

So it is in the same category as just about every other doctrine of Christianity--subject to somebody or other coming up with a different interpretation. That isn't saying much.

​

.

 

[chevyontheriver]

I am a little surprised by any Catholic who would try and disprove such a strong RCC doctrine as the Trinity just because the word is not found in the Scriptures

Who is it that is trying to disprove the Trinity? I missed that. Is the Concretecamper trying to disprove the Trinity? Huh?