Catholic Teaching

[bbbbbbb]

Luke wrote in Greek, not in Hebrew or Aramaic.

It makes no sense to assume that Luke would attempt to transliterate a semitic usage, without explanation, for a readership to whom this usage would have been alien.

This is why Paul, whose familiarity with Greek would have lagged behind that of Luke and who in any case used an amanuensis, use the word anepsios and not adelphos in his letter to the church at Colossae to describe Mark as he related to Barnabas.

Much is made of the dearth of semitic words to describe family relations, true or not, it has no pertinence to the Gospel of Luke which, again, was written by a speaker of Greek for a reading audience made up of people from a Greek linguistic, cultural and idiomatic milieu.

One of the great ironies with those who deny that Jesus had brothers and sisters is that in three of the gospel passages where they are mentioned as standing outside with his mother, He turns to the crowd and tells them that all who do the will of God are His mother and His brothers and His sisters. These are precisely the same Greek words used for Mary and His brothers and sisters who are outside the house.

If He had cousins rather than brothers and sisters, then it seems to me that religious orders would be addressed as cousins rather than Sister Humility or Brother Pious. Mother Theresa should have been called Aunt Theresa. The three gospel writers all knew what they were writing and were fluent in Greek.

 

[MamaZ]

when taken into the context of what was written concerning the brothers and sisters of Christ also mentions Jospeh who is the Father. Now we all know that those whom are born of the Spirit have one Father and that Being God the Father and not Joseph the carpenter.. So this narrows it down,

 

[MrPolo]

I'll respond to the last two posts thusly. Compare:

Matthew 13:55 Isn't this the carpenter's son? Isn't his mother's name Mary, and aren't his brothers James, Joses, Simon and Judas?

Mark 15:40 Some women were watching from a distance. Among them were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James the younger and of Joses, and Salome.

John 19:25 Near the cross of Jesus stood his mother, his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene.​

Summary: At the Crucifixion Mary Magdalene was next to Mary the wife of Clopas---whose sons include James and Joses---who are also called Jesus' brothers elsewhere. Yet Scripture indicates to us it is likely they are not Jesus' fraternal brothers.

 

[MamaZ]

I'll respond to the last two posts thusly. Compare:

Matthew 13:55 Isn't this the carpenter's son? Isn't his mother's name Mary, and aren't his brothers James, Joses, Simon and Judas?

Mark 15:40 Some women were watching from a distance. Among them were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James the younger and of Joses, and Salome.

John 19:25 Near the cross of Jesus stood his mother, his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene.
​

Summary: At the Crucifixion Mary Magdalene was next to Mary the wife of Clopas---whose sons include James and Joses---who are also called Jesus' brothers elsewhere. Yet Scripture indicates to us it is likely they are not Jesus' fraternal brothers.

Do you know how common of a name those are? Just like Myself and my sister in law.. I have a Chris she has a Chris, I have a Heather she has a Heather. My Son Chris is with a woman named Chris.. and the list goes on and on..

 

[Anoetos]

Yet Scripture indicates to us it is likely they are not Jesus' fraternal brothers.

Where?

 

[MrPolo]

Do you know how common of a name those are? Just like Myself and my sister in law.. I have a Chris she has a Chris, I have a Heather she has a Heather. My Son Chris is with a woman named Chris.. and the list goes on and on..

Realize the position you are taking is that there happened to be TWO women in Calvary happened to be named Mary and who had sons named James and Joses AND who happened to be standing next to Mary Magdalene at the Crucifixion. Just to be clear you are taking a strong position based on that least-likely scenario, against the far more likely scenario that James and Joses are sons of Mary of Clopas.

 

[MrPolo]

Where?

Above.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

.


I think it is important to keep clearly in mind that there is (and never has been) any dogma of Jesus was an Only Sibling in any denomination. The issue is the Dogma of Mary was a Perpetual Virgin, ie that Mary never had sex - ever, not once. That is a dogma in 2 or 3 denominations. The issue is not sibs, the issue is sex.

Unless one wants to argue that it is a dogmatic fact of biology that every single act of sexual intimacy results in the birth of a child specifically named in the Bible, then it is moot to the discussion if Jesus was an only child. Of course, IF Mary DID have another child, then obviously she did have sex at least once and therefore the Dogma of the PERPETUAL virginity of Mary would be false. But the "flip side" of that is moot. Having another child would mean the dogma is false, not having another child is meaningless to the dogma here being discussed.

The DOGMA is not "Mary Had No Other Kids" The DOGMA is "Mary Had No Sex Ever."






.

 

[Anoetos]

Above.

Well, "above" has been dealt with. Scripture indicates nothing of the kind.

You're still short an answer.

 

[MrPolo]

Well, "above" has been dealt with. Scripture indicates nothing of the kind.

You're still short an answer.

This is not a response to what I posted in 44 and 46. It's just a denial with no counter.

 

[MamaZ]

Realize the position you are taking is that there happened to be TWO women in Calvary happened to be named Mary and who had sons named James and Joses AND who happened to be standing next to Mary Magdalene at the Crucifixion. Just to be clear you are taking a strong position based on that least-likely scenario, against the far more likely scenario that James and Joses are sons of Mary of Clopas.

Amazing really.. How many Mary's were at the cross?

 

[papist1]

Do you know how common of a name those are? Just like Myself and my sister in law.. I have a Chris she has a Chris, I have a Heather she has a Heather. My Son Chris is with a woman named Chris.. and the list goes on and on..

Well, when scripture actually states that Mary, the mother of Jesus, is also the mother of James and Joses, I will believe it.

Until then, you can disagree with the entire first 1500+ years of Christians, including the disciples of the apostles and their disciples and believe what you like.

This once again is one of the huge problems with handing someone a bible and saying "there you go, have at it, thats all you need and by the way the Holy Spirit will lead you and make you infallible".

peace, papist

 

[bbbbbbb]

Well, when scripture actually states that Mary, the mother of Jesus, is also the mother of James and Joses, I will believe it.

Until then, you can disagree with the entire first 1500+ years of Christians, including the disciples of the apostles and their disciples and believe what you like.

This once again is one of the huge problems with handing someone a bible and saying "there you go, have at it, thats all you need and by the way the Holy Spirit will lead you and make you infallible".

peace, papist

Well, now you can believe it. Matthew 13:55 and Mark 6:3 explicitly state that James and Joses were not only the brothers of Jesus, but that they had a mother in common by the name of Mary. Don't take my word for it, however, but read it in your own Bible.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

This once again is one of the huge problems with handing someone a bible and saying "there you go, have at it, the Holy Spirit will lead you and make you infallible".

peace, papist

I agree. It's one of the primary reasons why I left the Catholic Church. Read your Catechism # 85 and 87 for starters.





.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

.


Again, NEVER, in ANY denomination, has their EVER been a dogma of "Jesus Had Sibs" or "Jesus Had No Sibs."

The dogma under review here is "Mary Had No Sex Ever - Not Once." The issue is not sibs, it's sex.




.