Catholic miracles defy any explanations

[zoidar]

I’ve heard similar claims. Apparently in all the ones I hear Jesus is not wearing sandals but described much like the Medieval era paintings.

Aha... the description I have, Jesus wore all white garment, like this image:

 

[ChicanaRose]

There is no other religion that can attest of miracles that can come even close to these.

These miracles were based on private revelations. From what I understand, even Catholics are not obligated to believe private revelations.

 

[☦Marius☦]

First of all, I am not discounting that there is truth in other Christian bodies. The Catholic Church teaches that many Protestants will be in heaven. So I have no problem in believing that God works in other Christian bodies. So can there be miracles in other Christian bodies? YES!

Second of all, from my Catholic perspective, only the Catholic Church has the FULLNESS of truth. So even though God does work some miracles in other Christian bodies, they are not of the full magnitude as the miracles I listed. Is there a Protestant miracle that is similar to the sun dancing or incorruptible bodies? I was a Protestant for 15 years, and around 5 of those years I was a Pentecostal (Assemblies of God). And even though Pentecostalism professes to still believe that miracles are for today, I never saw or heard of anything that even comes close to these miracles I just listed.

I myself got to see a myrrh streaming Icon of the mother up close and rather privately (just me and a few monks/priests). It was one of the most life changing things I've experienced- not from the miracle itself as much as the full presence of the Mother of God and the Holy Spirit in that room. It was unlike anything on this other than one Hierarchical Liturgy I went to in order to see two monastic ordinations, and later a tonsure. These things are real. My abbot described the same thing when he saw the in corrupt relics of St. Alexander of Svir, who was touched by a vision of the Holy Trinity.

 

[ChicanaRose]

These miracles validate the claims of the Catholic faith.

For people who look to miracles for validation, that could work.

Some people instead look to spiritual fruits in lifestyles and characters of individuals for evidence.

To me, the fact that the church has comparatively lower divorce rate (half of the national average), is a miracle in this day and age.

 

[BobRyan]

Men of Israel, listen to this message: Jesus of Nazareth was a man certified by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs, which God did among you through Him, as you yourselves know...God has raised this Jesus to life, to which we are all witnesses.
Acts 2: 22, 32

Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.
John 14:12

This was a great argument for the claims of Christ. He performed miracles, wonders, and signs, which certified that He was sent by God. On top of that, God has raised Jesus from the dead, and the apostles are witnesses of this. But this happened 2,000 years ago. Eyewitness testimony has lost its impact over this much time. But God, in His mercy, has given us even more amazing miracles within just the last two centuries, even some miracles that are still going on. The only problem is that these miracles are with the Catholic faith. But they certify that Jesus is the Son of God. Here are the highlights.

1. Miracle of the dancing sun in Fatima

It may seem odd that the sun is moving, since we know that the sun is stationary, at least in reference to the earth. Any actual, sudden movement of the sun would be a catastrophic to our solar system. And yet this is supported in the Bible, where God caused the sun to stand still (Joshua 10:12-14). In the case in Fatima and in the Book of Joshua, it is not that the sun was actually seen to dance or that the sun stood still. It is what the people observed. God can bend the sun's light rays so that it appears that the sun is dancing or that sun has stood still. It miracle is the bending of the sun's rays that makes it appears to us as dancing or standing still.

In 1917 the Blessed Virgin Mary appeared to three children several times at Fatima, Portugal. The last visit there were over 70,000 onlookers. But only the children could see and hear our Lady. One of the children, Lucia, then pointed up at the sky and shouted "Look at the sun!". The sun started to move around the sky, and started coming towards them. The people started to scream, thinking it being the end of the world. Then the sun went back in place.

Mind you, these were over thousands of people who witnessed this phenomenom. Critics say that this was a case of a mass hallucination. The problem with this is that people who lived in Fatima but did not go to the site and yet that they saw the movement of the sun. Not only that, the movement of the sun was even in the secular newpaper the next day.

How the Miracle of the Sun dazzled the sceptics | Catholic Herald

2. Incorruptible bodies of dead saints

Bodies of dead Catholic saints have decayed little or not at all! Critics explain this by saying that their bodies were preserved because they were buried in a dry place. But in many cases, these bodies were buried with other bodies of those who were not saints. The others were nor preserved.
My favorite is St Bernadette. Although she died 150 years ago, she looks as if she is just sleeping! See image below.

3. Miracle of our Lady of Guadalupe

Mary appeared to a Mexican peasant over two hundred years ago. She wrapped some roses in a tilma (a Mexican cloak made of burlap) to give to the bishop. When the bishop saw this, he saw an image of Mary painted on the tilma.

In the past century, the Catholic Church allowed experts to investigate. Artists tried to duplicate the image on other tilmas, but on burlap the paint would run together. Scientist discovered that the pigments was not any pigments on earth. What is even more amazing is that scientists magnified Mary's eyes and found that the pupils contained images of people! How could any artist 500 years ago do anything such as that?

https://magiscenter.com/the-science-or-lack-thereof-behind-juan-diegos-tilma/

4. Eucharistic miracles

There are many eucharistic miracles, but my favorite has been the miracle in Lanciano, Italy, which happened 500 years ago. the priest accidentally dropped the Eucharist on the floor while giving communion. It no longer appeared as a host but as a piece of meat. The church has had it on display since then.

This past century, the Church has allowed scientists to examine this. It found that this meat was tissue from a person who recently died, and yet this was on display for centuries!

5 Extraordinary Eucharistic Miracles that Left Physical Evidence (With Pictures!) | ChurchPOP

5. Stigmata

Many saints have had the stigmata - who have deep wounds on their hands and possibly also their feet. This points back to our Savior having nails driven through His nails and feet. The earliest stigmatic I can recall was St Francis of Assisi. The latest has been St. Padre Pio in the last century. The Catholic Church at that time thought that St Pio induced these wounds on himself. Because of this, he was forbidden to give Mass. But thousands came to see him. After he died, the wound on his hands immediately healed.

Mystery of Padre Pio´s Stigmata Analyzed by Scientist - ZENIT - English

6. Venerable Solanus Casey And St. Andre Bissette

This monk was not considered to be intelligent enough to offer Mass or to hear Confessions. So he was just given the job of a receptionist. But he talked to people as they came to visit the monastery. He prayed over them. And miracles started to happen. People all over the country came to Detroit to get healed! This happened just this past century.
Metro Detroiters share their miraculous memories of Father Solanus Casey

Also, the same thing can be said of Brother Andre in Canada.

Brother André: The Rocket Richard of miracles


7. Healings at Lourdes

In the 1800's Mary commanded a peasant girl at Lourdes to dig in the ground with her hands. Water started to seep out. Eventually, the water became a huge lake. And when people bathed in the water, many of them were healed. Even people to this day come to Lourdes for healing. The Church is very careful about declaring these to be real healings. They have a panel of doctors to examine each one. These doctors would be sceptics in most cases. If they can explain any healing with a scientific explanation, then the Church would not declare it to be an actual miracle. There are at least 70 cases that have no scientific explanation. This does not mean that the others were not miracles - it only means that it is possible that there is some other explanation. There have been those who say that they have debunked these miracle. But as with the resurrection of Christ, these debunking seem to me to stem from an anti-supernaturalistic bias (or, in case of these Catholic miracles, it could also be an anti-Catholic bias).

The Lourdes miracle that brought a Nobel prize-winning doctor to faith

This peasant girl was St Bernadette, who has the corruptible body I mentioned above.

Even if one or two of these can be explained away (which I do not think can be done), it is difficult to explain away all seven of these miracles. These miracles validate the claims of the Catholic faith. But more importantly, it attests the truth claims of Christianity. There is no other religion that can attest of miracles that can come even close to these.

BTW - thanks for that informative list.

You started out with this statement

Men of Israel, listen to this message: Jesus of Nazareth was a man certified by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs, which God did among you through Him, as you yourselves know...God has raised this Jesus to life, to which we are all witnesses.
Acts 2: 22, 32

Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.
John 14:12

This was a great argument for the claims of Christ. He performed miracles, wonders, and signs, which certified that He was sent by God. On top of that, God has raised Jesus from the dead, and the apostles are witnesses of this. But this happened 2,000 years ago.

Certainly that is true.

These texts are also true -

Matt 24
23 Then if anyone says to you, ‘Behold, here is the Christ,’ or ‘There He is,’ do not believe him. 24 For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.

2 Thess 2
3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
... 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


Rev 13
11 Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon. 12 And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13 He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men. 14 And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast

And so on the one hand I (like almost every other Christian on planet Earth) want to be watching for the signs that are from God - but at the same time I don't want to fall into the much-predicted signs-and-wonders trap that the Bible predicts for the end times.

Orthodoxy has many miracles as well, and they're more believable. We have the fullest truth.

Thanks for bringing that up

 

[concretecamper]

Men of Israel, listen to this message: Jesus of Nazareth was a man certified by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs, which God did among you through Him, as you yourselves know...God has raised this Jesus to life, to which we are all witnesses.
Acts 2: 22, 32

Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.
John 14:12

This was a great argument for the claims of Christ. He performed miracles, wonders, and signs, which certified that He was sent by God. On top of that, God has raised Jesus from the dead, and the apostles are witnesses of this. But this happened 2,000 years ago. Eyewitness testimony has lost its impact over this much time. But God, in His mercy, has given us even more amazing miracles within just the last two centuries, even some miracles that are still going on. The only problem is that these miracles are with the Catholic faith. But they certify that Jesus is the Son of God. Here are the highlights.

1. Miracle of the dancing sun in Fatima

It may seem odd that the sun is moving, since we know that the sun is stationary, at least in reference to the earth. Any actual, sudden movement of the sun would be a catastrophic to our solar system. And yet this is supported in the Bible, where God caused the sun to stand still (Joshua 10:12-14). In the case in Fatima and in the Book of Joshua, it is not that the sun was actually seen to dance or that the sun stood still. It is what the people observed. God can bend the sun's light rays so that it appears that the sun is dancing or that sun has stood still. It miracle is the bending of the sun's rays that makes it appears to us as dancing or standing still.

In 1917 the Blessed Virgin Mary appeared to three children several times at Fatima, Portugal. The last visit there were over 70,000 onlookers. But only the children could see and hear our Lady. One of the children, Lucia, then pointed up at the sky and shouted "Look at the sun!". The sun started to move around the sky, and started coming towards them. The people started to scream, thinking it being the end of the world. Then the sun went back in place.

Mind you, these were over thousands of people who witnessed this phenomenom. Critics say that this was a case of a mass hallucination. The problem with this is that people who lived in Fatima but did not go to the site and yet that they saw the movement of the sun. Not only that, the movement of the sun was even in the secular newpaper the next day.

How the Miracle of the Sun dazzled the sceptics | Catholic Herald

2. Incorruptible bodies of dead saints

Bodies of dead Catholic saints have decayed little or not at all! Critics explain this by saying that their bodies were preserved because they were buried in a dry place. But in many cases, these bodies were buried with other bodies of those who were not saints. The others were nor preserved.
My favorite is St Bernadette. Although she died 150 years ago, she looks as if she is just sleeping! See image below.

3. Miracle of our Lady of Guadalupe

Mary appeared to a Mexican peasant over two hundred years ago. She wrapped some roses in a tilma (a Mexican cloak made of burlap) to give to the bishop. When the bishop saw this, he saw an image of Mary painted on the tilma.

In the past century, the Catholic Church allowed experts to investigate. Artists tried to duplicate the image on other tilmas, but on burlap the paint would run together. Scientist discovered that the pigments was not any pigments on earth. What is even more amazing is that scientists magnified Mary's eyes and found that the pupils contained images of people! How could any artist 500 years ago do anything such as that?

https://magiscenter.com/the-science-or-lack-thereof-behind-juan-diegos-tilma/

4. Eucharistic miracles

There are many eucharistic miracles, but my favorite has been the miracle in Lanciano, Italy, which happened 500 years ago. the priest accidentally dropped the Eucharist on the floor while giving communion. It no longer appeared as a host but as a piece of meat. The church has had it on display since then.

This past century, the Church has allowed scientists to examine this. It found that this meat was tissue from a person who recently died, and yet this was on display for centuries!

5 Extraordinary Eucharistic Miracles that Left Physical Evidence (With Pictures!) | ChurchPOP

5. Stigmata

Many saints have had the stigmata - who have deep wounds on their hands and possibly also their feet. This points back to our Savior having nails driven through His nails and feet. The earliest stigmatic I can recall was St Francis of Assisi. The latest has been St. Padre Pio in the last century. The Catholic Church at that time thought that St Pio induced these wounds on himself. Because of this, he was forbidden to give Mass. But thousands came to see him. After he died, the wound on his hands immediately healed.

Mystery of Padre Pio´s Stigmata Analyzed by Scientist - ZENIT - English

6. Venerable Solanus Casey And St. Andre Bissette

This monk was not considered to be intelligent enough to offer Mass or to hear Confessions. So he was just given the job of a receptionist. But he talked to people as they came to visit the monastery. He prayed over them. And miracles started to happen. People all over the country came to Detroit to get healed! This happened just this past century.
Metro Detroiters share their miraculous memories of Father Solanus Casey

Also, the same thing can be said of Brother Andre in Canada.

Brother André: The Rocket Richard of miracles


7. Healings at Lourdes

In the 1800's Mary commanded a peasant girl at Lourdes to dig in the ground with her hands. Water started to seep out. Eventually, the water became a huge lake. And when people bathed in the water, many of them were healed. Even people to this day come to Lourdes for healing. The Church is very careful about declaring these to be real healings. They have a panel of doctors to examine each one. These doctors would be sceptics in most cases. If they can explain any healing with a scientific explanation, then the Church would not declare it to be an actual miracle. There are at least 70 cases that have no scientific explanation. This does not mean that the others were not miracles - it only means that it is possible that there is some other explanation. There have been those who say that they have debunked these miracle. But as with the resurrection of Christ, these debunking seem to me to stem from an anti-supernaturalistic bias (or, in case of these Catholic miracles, it could also be an anti-Catholic bias).

The Lourdes miracle that brought a Nobel prize-winning doctor to faith

This peasant girl was St Bernadette, who has the corruptible body I mentioned above.

Even if one or two of these can be explained away (which I do not think can be done), it is difficult to explain away all seven of these miracles. These miracles validate the claims of the Catholic faith. But more importantly, it attests the truth claims of Christianity. There is no other religion that can attest of miracles that can come even close to these.

While miracles can strengthen the faith of the faithful, I beleive these miracles are aimed at those not on His Church.

The miracle of the sun for example was witnessed my atheists and many were converted.

Our Lady of Guadalupe converted 9 million people to His Church. One interesting note, the reformers snatched 6 million from His Church. Less than 20 years later, Our Lady took 9 million and led them to Her Son's Church. Our Lady 1 - Satan 0

 

[packermann]

I'm assuming you mean the Roman Catholic faith?

That's the biggest reason I don't believe in the likes of the Shroud of Turin, the preserved foreskin of Jesus Christ, weeping statues of Mary, or any of these Roman Catholic so called miracles either.

God doesn't authenticate false teachings of any kind let alone that of a false priesthood that claims the power to dole out salvation to the laity through special powers like changing pieces of bread and cups of wine with strange memorized rituals.

Obviously you disagree.

You're right. I disagree.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

If a painting in my home starts to shed real tears, I don't care what it's a painting of. I will hack it to pieces and, if possible, I will burn it. I believe that to be the proper response to any graven image appearing to come to life (Revelation 13:15).

(Matthew 16:4) Only a perverse generation demands a sign in order to believe, and so I would rather believe without having seen (John 20:29).

 

[LostMarbels]

Even if one or two of these can be explained away (which I do not think can be done), it is difficult to explain away all seven of these miracles. These miracles validate the claims of the Catholic faith. But more importantly, it attests the truth claims of Christianity. There is no other religion that can attest of miracles that can come even close to these

Ok, I will look into two.

1. Miracle of the dancing sun in Fatima

How does a dead women appear to the living from death?

Luke 16:26
And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

The other part of this... where is it in the bible the dead speak to the living to god's glory?

Luk 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

2. Incorruptible bodies of dead saints

She is covered in wax by a wax mannequin sculpter: Pierre Imans, because the papacy thought her blackish skin, and sunken eyes would scare people. Her hands are also in wax.

Personally all I see is superstition. I know people will be mad, but I see nothing of value in this. Any of it.

 

[packermann]

Agreed! I know too many Catholics that know about many miracles and apparitions, but don't know scripture much.

I know too many Protestants who don't know scripture too much. What you are doing is comparing the best of Protestantism to the worst of Catholicism. If you take all of Protestantism, including the Episcopaleans, the Unitarians, the Disciples of Christ, and other liberal denominations to Catholics in general, then you will find that Protestants are just as ignorant as Catholics. If you want to compare Protestant evangelicals to Catholics, then you need to compare them to the most committed Catholics, such as those in Opus Dei.

They are therefore not able to do as we are told and test them against Scripture. All too often I meet them not only following the ones approved by the RCC, but all kinds of other ones which range from questionable to fraudulent, to possibly bad origin.

I was a Protestant for 15 years. I found the same thing with Protestants. They say that they test them against Scripture, but they actually test scripture against what their pastor or their denomination tells them. A Baptist will always see scripture teaching believer's only baptism. A
Lutheran will always see scripture teaching infant baptism. Everyone interprets the Bible according to the precepts of his church. At least the Catholic is being honest.

 

[dzheremi]

If a painting in my home starts to shed real tears, I don't care what it's a painting of. I will hack it to pieces and, if possible, I will burn it. I believe that to be the proper response to any graven image appearing to come to life (Revelation 13:15).

Isn't a graven image engraved/carved, not painted, seeing as how that's what the verb 'grave' means?

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

Isn't a graven image engraved/carved, not painted, seeing as how that's what the verb 'grave' means?

Instead of chipping away at a rock to achieve the shape, shall I then sculpt it upward from a lump of clay? Shall I then bow down and worship it? If I form it with 3D printing is it not a graven image?

You argue semantics. Yes, that's what "graven" means in the most literal sense, but if we are honest with ourselves, then we must admit that the point of it refers to any artificial image. I'm not one to stretch it to various abstractions and apply it to sundry things, so I regard my definition as rather conservative, already.

 

[packermann]

Many Catholic "miracles" don't give me a sense of awe and wonder and peace. Rather they creep me out and make me believe they come from dark origins.

I notice that non-Christians do not feel a sense of awe, wonder, and peace, when I talk to them about the resurrection of Christ, neither. Jews do not feel a sense of peace when I show them that the Old Testament prophesies are fulfilled in Christ. Rather, they feel creeped out. We feel peace when something keeps us in our comfort zone. But when we are challenged out of our comfort zone then we no longer feel an inner peace.

 

[packermann]

Why don't you share some of the Orthodox miracles if the OP is ok with that?

That is fine with me. Orthodoxy is very close to the Catholic faith. I know they have miracles as well.

 

[packermann]

But Protestants, generally speaking, do not look for or need such extraordinary gestures from God in order to believe or to have their faith confirmed..

A Protestant who believes that that the Bible is the Word of God bases this on the "inner witness of the Spirit". But doesn't that just mean that he has a certain feeling when he reads the Bible? So doesn't he need that certain feeling in order to confirm to him that the Bible is the Word of God?

 

[packermann]

Isn't a graven image engraved/carved, not painted, seeing as how that's what the verb 'grave' means?

Why did God command Moses to have two graven images of angelic beings on each end of the ark of the covenant? Does that mean that God commanded Moses to sin?

 

[dzheremi]

Why are you asking me when I was asking the other poster to clarify what they were talking about?

 

[redleghunter]

Aha... the description I have, Jesus wore all white garment, like this image:

Still looks like the Jesus of the movies of the 60s which were based on Renaissance art.

Jesus was a carpenter. That’s manly outdoor work chopping wood and hauling it around. All the art and movies have him as some skinny guy who today would be viewed as a barista.

Aside from that, Jesus Christ is the Risen and Glorified King of kings. See Revelation 1 for the description John gives us. It’s not a skinny guy in a white robe.

 

[redleghunter]

Our Lady of Guadalupe converted 9 million people to His Church. One interesting note, the reformers snatched 6 million from His Church. Less than 20 years later, Our Lady took 9 million and led them to Her Son's Church. Our Lady 1 - Satan 0

Jesus sent His mom to do the work of the Holy Spirit?

 

[packermann]

You are correct about Protestants not needing (or maybe wanting) miracles to confirm their specific doctrines. Protestants rely on interpreting scripture to arrive at specific doctrines. Different protestant churches arrive at different doctrines by differing interpretations of scripture. No miracles are forthcoming, relied upon, or desired as proofs that one specific set of doctrines are trustworthy and the others are not. Some Pentecostal churches rely on prophecy and miracles as evidence for their specific teachings - this applies to churches like the "oneness churches".

Protestants don't rely on Protestant miracles because in general they don't have them. But they have feelings. A song was sung in Campus Crusade for Christ goes like this: "He lives! He lives! You ask me how I know He lives! HE LIVES WITHIN MY HEART!" There is emphasis on heartfelt evidence - experiencing the abundant life. Everything is based on feelings. It nbearly turned me into an atheist.

When I was a Protestant minister, I was engaged to what I thought was the woman of my dreams. Then my church asked me leave. And then my fiancee dumped me. I was 30 years old and I had to go back to live with my parents. This was not the abundant life I was expecting. I went years without praying. I thought I was going to lose the faith.

I became a computer programmer and married a Catholic. I started to check out the claims of the Church. It made a lot of sense. And the Catholic Church does NOT rely on miracles. Actually, it is quite the opposite. For instance, of all the thousands of healings at Lourdes, the Church has only approved of 70. And even when they approve a miracle, they most they ever say is that it is worthy of belief. No Catholic is required to believe any miracle unless it is in the Bible.

But the Catholic Church understands that a Christian can experience the Dark Night of the Soul. Just as Jesus felt abandoned by the Father on the cross, so too we can experience abandoned by the God. It does not mean that one did something wrong. For instance, St Therese of Calcutta felt abandoned by God for FORTY YEARS! Try selling that to a Protestant evangelical who is expecting a life of inner peace and joy if he turns to Christ! But when St Theresa was on her deathbed, she experienced the presence of God as she did a long time ago. This Catholic idea of the Dark Night, was just what I needed to hear. It was a relief to know that I was not doing anything wrong. I realized that the abundant life was not just the warm fuzzies, it was also the cold pricklies. To experience the fullness of life means to experience the fullness of pain and even darkness as well as the joy and peace. Now I have no expectation from God in this life. If a Cross is given to me then so be it. I will follow Him.